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MYTHBUSTERS: REV Relays...

106K views 95 replies 53 participants last post by  Daag44 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
...or... MOARRP... Mother Of All REV Relay Posts
More than you ever WANTED to know about the relays & your sled's electrical system

Do a search and you'll find a bzillion threads about the relays on SDI (and non-SDI) sleds (and the issues related to 'em)... I'm going to try and make a "one post catch all" that hits the majority of the highlights...

Sure... this is one LONG-*SSED post... but I'll guarantee that if you read it & have sense enough to digest it, you'll be able to trouble-shoot & figure out near any relay-related electrical issue (and some non-relay related ones) that may crop-up on your sled.

I suppose question #1 on everyone's lips is..... WHAT RELAY WORKS THAT DOESN'T COST $30 AT MY DEALER?!?!?!

The simple answer... just about any one that'll fit in the socket & works without issues in your sled when you're riding it.

Really... it IS just that simple... if you spend the 3 or 4 hours reading all the threads on the issue you'll uncover discussions of some relays being "better" than others (true, to a certain extent), making sure there is a "diode" or "resistor" in the relay used in SDIs (not true), and the minimum current capacity ("sort of" true, but not a deal breaking critical issue in our application... most of the time).

There are guys that have sought-out "certain" relays like BOSCH for example... and had great success with them... and others that have gone to the local PEP Boys, VIP Auto, or other local area discount auto parts store... walked over to the section where they sell fog lights, switches, and other electrical accessories... grabbed one off the shelf... matched it up with the bad one they brought with 'em... plugged it in and gone sledding... and still have the same relay in it to this day... no issues... heck, I'd be willing to bet the auto parts section of Wal-Mart even has 'em.

And those will be cheap Chinese 20-amp (probably) relays.

OK, I know... not the answer you were hoping for... but I wanted to dismiss a lot of the high current/certain brand/certain type/magical mystery contents cube/etc technical mumbo-jumbo as to what does and doesn't work... you know... dispense with the "myths".

Myth #1... You need a relay rated for 40-amps or more.

I've had one of those el-cheapo "American components... Russian components.... ALL MADE IN TAIWAN!!!!!" type (sorry couldn't resist... lame "Armageddon" reference) 20A relays zip-tied up under my sled since back in December.. grabbed it off the rack at PEP Boys.

Ok, sure... the specs on the stock Doo relay are 40 Amp... and if you want to trace the circuits and do the math...

E-Start Non-SDI relay feeds 1 30-amp fuse and 1 5-amp.

Manual-Start non-SDI & SDI "Load" Relay feeds 2 20-amp fuses.

SDI "Run" Relay feeds 4 5-amp fuses and 1 10-amp.

On the surface that means we have a theoretical maximum of 35, 40, & 30 amps respectively... but...

If you've ever designed electrical circuits you have to "overfuse" it, so to speak. A 30-amp fuse that has a constant 29.9 amps of current going through it isn't going to last very long... so most are calculated for a constant load of 50-75% of the fuse rating and rounded up, depending on application.

Take your headlights for example... which are run through one of the 20A fuses... let's do "worst case"... we'll figure your voltage regulator is getting a little "hot" & is putting out 14 volts when you've got her wound up... even if you've put 2 100-watt high beams (which are right around 1.5-ohms) that's still only around 18-1/2 amps of current.... just over 10 amps for the stock 60-watters @ 13.5 volts is more realistic... toss in a 1/4-amp for the high-beam indicator (and that's probably overkill) and you barely crack 10-1/2 amps... on a 20-amp fuse.

(Note: at speed the charging system in your sled is somewhere between 12.75-13.5 volts normally)

Still... if you're the skittish type and want to be safe, or if you have installed higher wattage headlights... on a Manual-Start non-SDI, or for the SDI "Load" relay, you can ask (or check) if what you're getting is rated for at least 30-Amps... but, given the reality of the circuitry currents I don't think it's a deal breaker... you'd have to ride around all the time with the (stock)high-beams on, grips & thumb-warmer on high, with a heated visor and some other accessory (like a GPS) plugged in, AND be dragging the brake all the time to get up to 20 amps consistently.

Still not convinced?... OK... how about this... What's the maximum output, in amps, of a 360-watt Doo magneto?

Do the math and get back to me... here's some help if you don't know "Ohm's Law"... http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/B...den/ohmslaw.htm

(Yes, I know you SDI owners have a 480-watt mag... & you also have TWO relays to feed... not just one)

Myth #2... You need a relay with a diode/resistor/magical mystery component inside.

Take a bad stock Doo relay apart and you won't find anything but a relay... which is basically just an electro-magnetic switch... there's no diode and/or resistor and/or anything else to control any voltage spike/lightning strike/Act of God in there... it's just a dumb on/off switch.. that's all... even in the SDIs.

A diode used for "surge protection" in a relay coil will not make the relay last longer... it's used for the protection of sensitive control circuits in some applications and may actually SHORTEN the service life of the relay... depending on the design of the circuitry involved.

This comes from Panasonic/Matsu****a Electric Works datasheet on the "CB" relays....
Cautions regarding the protection element

1. Part numbers without protection elements

1) 12 V models - When connecting a coil surge protection circuit to these relays, we recommend a zener diode with a zener voltage of 24 V or higher, or a resistor (680. to 1,000.). When a diode is connected to the coil in parallel, the release time will slow down and working life may shorten. Before use, please check the circuit and verify that the diode is not connected in parallel to the coil drive circuit.

2) 24 V models - When connecting a coil surge protection circuit to these relays, we recommend a zener diode with a zener voltage of 48 V or higher, or a resistor (2,800. to 4,700.). When a diode is connected to the coil in parallel, the release time will slow down and working life may shorten. Before use, please check the circuit and verify that the diode is not connected in parallel to the coil drive circuit.

2. Part numbers with diodes
These relays use a diode in the coil surge protection element. Therefore, the release time is slower and the working life might be shorter compared to part numbers without protection elements and part numbers with resistors. Be sure to use only after evaluating under actual load conditions.

3. Part numbers with resistors
This part number employs a resistor in the coil surge protection circuit; therefore, an external surge protection element is not required. In particular, when a diode is connected in parallel with a coil, the release time becomes slower which could adversely affect working life. Please check the circuit and make sure that a diode is not connected in parallel with the coil drive circuit.

http://www.mew.co.jp/ac/e_download/control...mech_eng_cb.pdf
and finally... Myth #3... You should never "tap/rap" on a relay to test it.

Well... if you're talking about the average relay found inside any of the handy-dandy electronics toys you have around the house and available at your local Radio Shack that's true.... but we're talking about relays that are supposed to be made to survive in an automotive application.

Now, if you bash it with a hammer it's not likely to work anymore... but if it can't survive me tapping on it with a screwdriver handle (or maintain contact connection... ala the mystery SDI "cutout" issue) it's not likely to survive in the sled much longer anyway... and could very likely be the reason it cuts out when I bash a mogul... or hit that certain vibration frequency & magnitude at 7500RPM on a hard pull.

Here's a quote from Panasonic's literature on their High Power Automotive Relays
- High Shock Resistance for Drop Test Requirements (2 Meters - 6.6 Feet)
And this from the datasheet...
SHOCK RESISTANCE - Destructive - Min 1000m/s[sup]2[/sup] (100G)
... I say it should be able to pass the "tap test" easily.

OTHER RELAY FAQs & GENERAL INFO/TROUBLESHOOTING:

Q: Why do they seem to fail more in sleds than cars?

Well, think about that for a second... IMO we're subjecting these things to a FAR harsher environment in a sled than they were envisioned for when they were designed for your average car/truck.

Just the frequency and magnitude of vibration alone is FAR over and above what it would ever see in the normal automotive world... sure, Doo COULD spec out a much tougher relay just for sleds & have 'em made... but, supply and demand weighs in... what do you think THAT relay would cost? Heck, we have enough cheapos around here that cry about having to spend a few cents more per gallon for premium fuel for a P-Tek... or a few bucks more per gallon for syn-blend oil for an SDI... never mind a $75(or more, likely) relay.

IMO it's as simple as the fact that we're shaking these things to death.

Now, are SOME relays going to last longer than others.... YES, absolutely... you DO get what you pay for in some cases... question is... what do you want and/or need for how you ride.

If a relay cutting out is going to cost you a race or leave you stuck on a steep mountainside in waist deep powder... I'd definitely shoot for something a little better quality than what you can get for 3-5 bucks at your local discount auto store. (Bosch & NAPA seem to be the top contenders there.... Ford also has one that works & the "Standard Motor Products" brand found in many GM vehicles isn't a bad choice either)

But if the only thing it means is that you have to get the spare out of the trunk on the trail somewhere and swapping one out on the trail doesn't bother you... grab the cheap ones if you want... they do work... the choice is yours.

"My sled runs but 'X' doesn't work"... or "my SDI sled doesn't run/doesn't start/cuts out/etc."

Reading a wiring diagram isn't REALLY all that hard... even if you're not a technician... as long as you have an ounce of common sense, have 2 or more active brain-cells to rub together, and understand why you can't connect the positive and negative terminals of a battery directly together, you can follow one enough to figure out 90% of the electrical issues you'll ever run into... and most shop manual CDs (which include a wiring diagram) can be had on eBay for 10 bucks... it's where I got mine.

However...

There are 3 different basic types of wiring systems used by Doo from 2003 to 2007... and one other just has an "extra" circuit.

- Non-SDI Electric Start
- Non-SDI Manual Start
- SDI (Manual Start SDIs have an extra circuit)


Here's where SOME of the confusion about what happens when a relay goes bad comes in... the symptoms are different for each of the 3 types... well... especially for the E-start non-SDI.

When the relay in a non-SDI Electric Start sled goes bad the most noticeable thing that happens is the battery will no longer be charged.... now you may not think that's too big of a deal... except that the circuit that feeds the ECM (via the 5A fuse) is also fed through the relay.

If the battery in your E-Start non-SDI is getting weaker & weaker, and the 30A fuse down by the battery is good... your relay just went south... if you don't have a spare, you might want to think about manually starting the sled until you can replace it... once the battery goes flat you'll be done... the ECM will be running off the battery and not the charging system.

In the manual start non-SDI versions the relay feeds both of the 20A fuses... one fuse is your headlights and the other is your gauges, grips, tail-lights, & etc.... so if the sled runs, but none of the above work... well.... you get the idea.

And that can of worms known as SDI...

You get two relays if you have an E-start model.... R1 (Run) & R2 (Load)

R2 - the "Load" relay works the same stuff as the relay in the manual start non-SDI sleds... feeds 2 20A fuses (F7 & F8) with much the same circuitry.

R1 - The "Run" relay... the "bad apple"... the bane of the SDIs existence for many SDI owners... here's the criminal that has driven you nuts, & single-handedly been responsible for more "relay posts" than any other... feeds all the 5 & 10 amp fuses in the box for... well... pretty much everything that makes the sled run... Like the fuel pump, injector power, & ECM for example... and replacing it has "magically cured" a LOT of SDI owner's issues.

The quickest and easiest way to find out of you have a "run" relay that's acting up is to swap it with the load relay... if your running issues are now cured it might have been the problem... try swapping them back & see if the problem returns.

OH D*MN... I just let the cat out of the bag.. oh well... if you've yet to figure it out... here it is... the best kept secret in electronics... one often overlooked and sometimes simple/sometimes aggravating cure for intermittent electrical/electronic issues.... unplug everything and then plug it all back together.

You'd be amazed at the number of times I've had that exact method work. plug-in connections can oxidize over time... that can (and often will) drive you insane trying to diagnose, and is a lot more common than you might think.

Case in point... my other half's GSX...

We're talking about a 2-year-old (at that point) sled that only had 900 miles on it... how much "sitting" had it done over those 2 years.... a lot obviously.

So we get it home and discover an odd problem... if the sled was just sitting at idle it would occasionally die. No apparent rhyme or reason... no other time, only at idle... and only once in a while.

So, having my suspicions I simply, one at a time, pulled every fuse & relay out of the box and put them all back.... magically... problem cured to this day.

Had that not worked next step would have been all connectors for the ECM, injectors, sensors, and any other electrical connector I could have found under the plastic in the harness.

Step #1 of ANY electrical diagnosis.... are your connections good?

It still amazes me to this day how many skip that step... even those who should know better... catch myself at it sometimes.

Just because it "looks" OK... doesn't mean it is... unless you are Superman & have x-ray vision.

Finally... a couple "special cases" of note...

Manual Start SDI - you have a 3rd relay (R4) the "Start" relay... the small battery on these is only 3 Amps... so the capacitor (in theory) will get the sled up and running even if the battery gets real weak... or to quote the service manual...

The capacitor has two functions. It is used to stabilize battery voltage when voltage from the voltage
regulator/rectifier is charging the small battery. It also gives the possibility to be able to start
the engine even if the battery is very low. In this case, starting the engine may be more difficult and
will require the very complete stroke of the starting rope.

The capacitor relay prevents the capacitor to be connected to the battery when the engine is not running to allow safe vehicle maintenance (disconnection and reconnection of the capacitor).
Nice in theory... ever tried to start one with a weak battery?... may be more difficult???... no kidding???.... really????


E-RAVE Equipped Sleds - The manual start P-Tek's E-RAVE Solenoid is powered through the relay (and accessory fuse)... realize that if you've lost the relay (or fuse) and are just "trying to get it home"... keeping your RPMs down below the E-RAVE opening point could prove prudent (E-Start P-Teks are not effected by the relay - but if you lose the accessory fuse you do have the same result). SDIs aren't so "cut & dry"... the solenoid itself is powered via the "Run" relay (if that's out you have bigger issues to worry about than just E-RAVE control)... but the heating element in the solenoid that keeps it warm & working properly is powered through the "Load" relay... so again... keep that in mind as the RPMs get up over 7K with a non-functional Load relay.

Why are they wired through different relays??? Good question - could be a couple reasons really... or no real reason... & only BRP's eggheads know for sure.... maybe.

For those of you who just can't seem to wrap your heads around a wiring diagram here's some hugely simplified "flow chart" type diagrams to help you envision what does what on your sled.


The SDI is more complex and a lot harder to break-down into a simple "flow chart" type diagram... but...


Notice that the 5A F11 fuse is the coil circuit for the "Run" relay (R1)... before you toss out your Run relay check that one out to make sure it's good & not loose/dirty.

F4 (5A) is labeled "Accessories" on the fusebox cover... which is a bit misleading... it does handle activation of the "Load" relay (R2)... but I'm hard-pressed to call your E-RAVE & starter solenoids, along with the speed sensor "accessories"... I suppose the gauges, & reverse alarm could be.

If you want to argue semantics with BRP I'd call the "Secondary Load" fuse F7 (20A) the real "accessory" fuse (grips/thumb warmers, tail/stop lights, & accessory outlet(s) and F4 the actual "Secondary Load" fuse.

Just for general info in case your label is missing/unreadable.... here's the breakdown...

F1 - Outer Injectors (5A)
F2 - Inner Injectors (5A)
F3 - ECM (5A)
F4 - "Accessories" (5A) (see above)

F7 - "Secondary Load" (20A) (see above)
F8 - Headlights (20A)
F9 - Fuel Pump, Ign Coil (10A)

F11 - R1, Start/RER Button, (R4 - Manual Start) (5A)
F12 - Capacitor (Manual Start) (20A)

OK... I know... go ahead and hate me.. I saved this part for last... but here's a list of a "few" relays that aren't likely to cost 30 bucks... pick your poison...

(NOTE: Some of these relays will only have 4 terminals instead of 5... no problem, they will work just fine the center connection of the 5 terminal relay is never used anyway... keep that in mind if you're grabbing one of those cheap "off the shelf" type "fog light/accessory" relays... if it only has 4 terminals but looks like it'll still plug into the connector... it'll work)

PANASONIC CB1-12V (5 term) & CB1a-12V (4 term)

It really doesn't matter if the relay does or doesn't have a "mount tab"... you can cut the tab off if you have to put one in an SDI that has the tab... and if you have to use one in a non-SDI that doesn't have the mount tab for the zip-tie it's not that big a deal... friend of mine has had one duct taped to the original bad one in his sled for a couple years.

If you want the easy way out... go into your local auto parts store and have them do a cross reference for whatever brand they sell that swaps with the Standard Motor Products part numbers listed below... if they can't do that... find another auto parts dealer that isn't quite so stupid.

Code:
Standard Motor Products (STD): RY115 - w/ mount tab<br />
							   RY116 - no mount tab<br />
<br />
<br />
PANASONIC: CB1-12V	- 40A - 5 terminal - no bracket<br />
		   CB1a-12V   - 40A - 4 terminal - no bracket<br />
		   CB1-M-12V  - 40A - 5 terminal - bracket mount<br />
		   CB1a-M-12V - 40A - 4 terminal - bracket mount<br />
<br />
<br />
BOSCH:<br />
0 332 019 103 - 50 amp  - 4 terminal - no bracket	- Suppression: R<br />
0 332 019 110 - 50 amp  - 4 terminal - bracket mount - Suppression: R<br />
0 332 209 137 - 50 amp  - 5 terminal - no bracket	- Suppression: R<br />
0 332 209 138 - 50 amp  - 5 terminal - bracket mount - Suppression: R<br />
<br />
0 332 019 150 - 40 amp  - 5 terminal - bracket mount<br />
0 332 019 151 - 40 amp  - 5 terminal - no bracket<br />
0 332 019 155 - 40 amp  - 5 terminal - bracket mount - Suppression: D<br />
0 332 209 150 - 40 amp  - 5 terminal - bracket mount<br />
0 332 209 151 - 40 amp  - 5 terminal - no bracket<br />
0 332 209 159 - 40 amp  - 5 terminal - no bracket	- Suppression: R<br />
0 332 209 161 - 40 amp  - 5 terminal - bracket mount - Suppression: R<br />
<br />
0 332 209 168 - 30 amp  - 5 terminal - no bracket<br />
<br />
<br />
FORD PART#: FOAZ-14N089-A (F0AB-14B192-AA printed on it)<br />
<br />
<br />
NAPA Echlin: AR143 has the mount tab<br />
			 AR204 has the mount tab & Suppression Resistor<br />
			 AR201 has no mount tab<br />
<br />
<br />
RADIO SHACK: 40 Amp - 275-001<br />
			 30 Amp - 275-226
And finally about using "Dielectric Grease"...

Dielectric grease by itself will not "cure" any connection issue that already exists... it's a "preventative" measure... not a "repair".

In fact.... it's non-conductive... so it can't make a connection "better" in any way, shape, or form.

What it DOES do is help keep moisture & oxygen from mucking up a connection.

Also, depending on who's paperwork you're reading you'll be told to use or not use it on the weather-tight "Deutsch" connectors...

According to BRP's service manual (and others) they specifically state to NEVER use it... stating it will break-down the rubber in the connector that makes it weather-tight.

While other sources (including a tech bulleton from Ford if memory serves) will tell you to go ahead and load 'em up.

Personally, I don't use the stuff anywhere... on ANY connection... unless I deem it necessary for that particular application/location... and I'm yet to have a connector related failure that it would have prevented using that common sense approach.

Be your own judge on who to believe about Deutsch connectors.... and your mileage may vary.
 
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#2 ·
places that install remote starters for cars will have a box of them for $2 ea maybe less(volume)check radio shack,i have enough to help all my friends and got spare zipp tied to frame,and some spares in my emerg kit
 
#3 ·
Added the RS part #s.... forgot to copy them in.
 
#4 ·
Hey Dix ya got some cliff notes for your post i have ADD and could'nt make it past the 1st paragraph so if you have some clif...hey did you know that if you blow in a latex glove it looks like those paper turkeys you used to make in the 1st grade..hmmm of yeah back on track what was the post about?

Just joking thanks for taking the time to write all that....hey want to go bike riding...dam ADD!
 
#5 ·
LMAO!!!!!

Just for you Mike.....

WHAT RELAY WORKS THAT DOESN'T COST $30 AT MY DEALER?!?!?!

The simple answer... just about any one that'll fit in the socket & works without issues in your sled when you're riding it.
How's that?
 
#9 ·
I got bored
 
#8 ·
Yea.... typical Ford... I just copied the number off the relay not the box.
 
#11 ·
My 2006 F150 came with a trailer tow pkg, in which a wiring harness for the electric brake was in the glove box. In the bag with the wiring harness was..... you guessed it F0AB-14B192-AA. I didn't even know it was there until I cleaned it out to turn the lease in. So if your ever in a pinch, pop the hood on a truck.
 
#13 ·
Hey Dix thanks for the write up.You mentioned" Manual Start SDI - you have a 3rd relay (R4) the "Start" relay... the small battery on these is only 3 Amps... so the capacitor (in theory) will get the sled up and running even if the battery gets real weak... or to quote the service manual..." my 04 Adrenaline SDI has e-start and a third relay as well any thoughts what it is for ?
 
#14 · (Edited by Moderator)
Are you the original owner?

Seen this a few times where someone will put a relay in that slot when it's not required... either because they think there should be one there (the wiring is there for it... but it's a dead circuit... they only make one wiring harness for the SDI... see if there is a 20A fuse in the F12 slot... if there is, see below)... or as a place to keep a spare... which may not be a good idea... if the socket gets powered when the sled is running (which it probably does) then you're cycling that relay for nothing & shortening its lifespan while doing nothing.

Had one case of an 05 where the previous owner had installed E-start out of another wrecked sled... even left the capacitor circuit hooked up.... no harm - no foul... won't hurt anything... but we removed the capacitor, fuse, & relay and had a good chuckle.

Just in case that's your mysterious reason for the 3rd relay.... the capacitor will be down by the battery... with a red/beige or red/white wire going to the harness and a black one going to the neg terminal of the battery.

To remove the cap.... pull the 30A fuse by the battery and connect a test light across the capacitor for about a minute to discharge it... then remove the capacitor and reinstall the 30A fuse.

At that point you can also remove the 20A fuse F12 from the fuse block & the relay (R4) if you haven't already.

Here's the section of the SDI wiring diagram for it....

 
#20 ·
That is right. Moisture can cause issues at start up. I have posted relay tests and facts in the past. Dix is right on the money here.

Everyone needs to understand relays, they are in everything you own thats electrical.
 
#16 · (Edited by Moderator)
I'd have to disagree on myth #2.
All relays on your sled should have a the diode in them,it there for a reason to make it last longer and work better.Yes cheaper ones will work but why not use a good one from the start(not necessarily the factory one)
Besides they can be bought for peanuts also,many if not all automotive relays have them ,no need to buy BRP ones.
As for myth #1,you contradict yourself.
You say you don't need a 40 amp relay but state that electrical fuses are designed with a safety factor in mind,isn't that why they want you to use a 40 amp relay?What going to last longer a higher rated one running less curent or a cheaper lower rated one running close to its max?
 
#22 · (Edited by Moderator)
many if not all automotive relays have them ,no need to buy BRP ones.
Not so... in fact most do not.... and if you want a diode don't buy the BRP ones because they don't have one.

Just take a look at the list of part numbers I put up... 16 of 23 parts listed do not. (don't know about the Ford) In fact, if it's specifically a diode you're looking for.... only one of those listed has it, the other 6 use a resistor.
 
#17 ·
Great post Dix . Did this get put in the FAQ .If not it should have !!
Ah Yes, One of the many hot topics from the past . FYI to all , I'm still on the stock one but I have a spare !!! Must be some Fry and some Don't ?
 
#21 · (Edited by Moderator)
Actually the moisture thing slipped through the cracks... but... yup... it can be an issue... mostly on the first startup of a cold morning... either when you've been out romping in the pow the day before, it was humid yesterday, or it otherwise somehow let mositure in while it was warm.

Some dealers used to tell people to take it out of the sled, take it inside & warm it up


For a $10 part I'm not bothering to monkey with it... if moisture has found its way in... it's going to keep finding its way in.... it's going to hit the trash can & I'll just put the spare in.

... you DO have a spare right? (and fuses too... I hope)
 
#23 · (Edited by Moderator)
Tell you what.... you send me all the relays that you find burnt up in a sled because it doesn't have a diode in it (the normally open contacts fused together or burnt beyond recognition is the most common tell-tale of this type of failure) and I'll pay you $50 each for 'em, and I'll send you all the relays I get that failed for other reasons and you pay me $5 each for 'em..... deal?

???????? Every factory relay i've pulled from a rev(allof lot of them ) had burned contacts,thats the major cause of these relays going bad(i don't take cheques by the way)
Do you know what a clamping diodes function is in the relay?

i don't know where you're looking but most of the (important)ones i see have diodes, chrysler even puts them on the windhield washer pump circuits.Is that a critical circiut in your eyes?it must be to them if they venture to do so.I believe that MAYBE they know more about circiuit design than you or i.
I don't think you're an expert on electrical issues,so my advice to people reading this post is replace everything with the exact rating of what came out.Thats the cardinal rule in life,isn't it?
Leave the engineering changes to engineers.Just because something can be made to work doesn't mean that it s the best solution to a problem.

My 2 cents
 
#24 · (Edited by Moderator)
so my advice to people reading this post is replace everything with the exact rating of what came out.
Then taking your own advice your whole theory about a diode being necessary goes up in smoke... don't try to find a diode in a stock Doo relay.... there isn't one there.

Who's contradicting themselves???? Keep your 2 cents.
 
#26 · (Edited by Moderator)
Then why has a 20A one worked for so long in so many sleds? (we're back to that fuse vs. switch thing again
)

There's textbook theory.... and then there's real-world application... many times there are HUGE differences between the two.

Don't feel too bad... you're not alone.... I've got a couple egghead future brother's-in-law that I frustrate and embarrass all the time when common sense prevails over their pointy-headed theory... it's kind of a hobby.
 
#28 · (Edited by Moderator)
Don't have an 04 diagram handy (the one I put up was 05-06)... doubt the circuitry's different, just the wire colors.

It being a spring order it's going to be a "version 1.0" so-to-speak.... so that's not too surprising really.

Most logical guess (with it being an "1st edition" of sorts) would be that the fuse & relay are there because they were installed when the wiring went in then later in assembly it was decided whether it would be an e-start or not and then the right combination of battery/capacitor/starter was installed.

Or (knowing the way a lot of manuf scheduling goes
) they had a bunch of manual start sleds ready to go... then someone realized they needed some e-starts to fill the spring orders... oops... it wouldn't have been too difficult to grab whatever number was needed, pull the small batteries & caps, install the larger battery & starter, swap out the primary clutch to one with a ring gear and ship 'em out the door.

Either way it means that R4 & F12 are there but are just feeding a dead-end.

No harm-no foul... they aren't going to bother anything.

IF your curiosity gets the best of you try pulling the F12 fuse and test between there and where the cap would plug into the harness down by where your battery is to verify that's where it goes.
 
#29 ·
I'm a new Skidoo owner (bought an 06 500ss with no electric start today) and this is an awesome thread.

I have three requests/questions:

1) I would really appreciate if someone can post a pic showing the location of this relay on my new sled?
2) I would really appreciate if someone can post the relay electrical diagram on my new sled?
3) Is it definative that the OEM Sk1doo relay does not have a diode/resistor?

Thanks alot for the help.
 
#30 · (Edited by Moderator)
#1 is easy without a pic.... open your left side panel... look up and find the 2 20A fuses... you'll see the relay zip-tied to the frame right near them.

#2 give me a few minutes to suck down some more coffee... stay tuned.

#3 Yes - nothing in it but a dumb electro-magnetic switch... I've cut nearly a dozen apart... from 03s all the way to 07s.... SDI & non-SDI.

(EDIT post-coffee)
 
#32 · (Edited by Moderator)
Dix...great work....I had one fail on a cold morning of minus 30 cel....put in the cheap relay bought at Canadian Tire here ...warmed up the Doo one and put it back in....still working

For you CDN guys ...Canadian Tire and Parts Source has them.....

Parts Source #RL36621 or

Canadian Tire #23-7066,

about $6-$7 if I recall....

I bought the Can Tire one which had the mounting tab ...which I just cut off
 
#35 ·
Dix...great work....I had one fail on a cold morning of minus 30 cel....put in the cheap relay bought at Canadian Tire here ...warmed up the Doo one and put it back in....still working

For you CDN guys ...Canadian Tire and Parts Source has them.....

Parts Source #RL36621 or

Canadian Tire #23-7066,

about $6-$7 if I recall....

I bought the Can Tire one which had the mounting tab ...which I just cut off
what was the number of the Canadian Tire relay with the mounting tab? I bought the 23-7066 relay and it did not come with the mounting tab!!

What is the best way to secure the relay to the frame without the mounting tab?

Finally, does anyone have the specification of the 23-7066 relay from CT (e.g. contacts rating)? Also, the diagram on the side of the CT relay shows a resistor in paralell with the coil?
 
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