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#1 Klondiker

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Posted 27 April 2021 - 09:44 AM

So I picked up a 2015 Skandic WT 600 ACE.

I realize the 2015 Skandics kept the old style DESS key.  From what I can glean, upgrading to an HF key would require a new HF style post and a new HF compatible ECM.  Wiring harness appears to work with either key style.

Ive never run a sled with the old style DESS key.  The one older Skandic in our group has the old key.  Never really had an issue, although once it a while it does need a wiggle.

I was thinking of just replying the old DESS post with a new "old style", get a replacement key, and install it with a bit of dielectric grease on the contacts and a bead of silicone around the rubber just to make it more or less permanent.


There are two types of people in the world: those who bought a Tundra/Skandic/Expedition, and those who wished they had...


#2 mryimmers

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Posted 28 April 2021 - 05:34 AM

I have a 2015 Scandik with 900ace and DESS key, other than often having to wiggle key around a bit after starting, I've had no issues.

Why would you want to change it?

Just wondering. Thanks.



#3 Klondiker

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Posted 28 April 2021 - 10:29 AM

I have a 2015 Scandik with 900ace and DESS key, other than often having to wiggle key around a bit after starting, I've had no issues.

Why would you want to change it?

Just wondering. Thanks.

Just from reading, it seems the old style post gets worn enough that the whole wiggle 'till it works thing becomes more and more common.  As I mentioned, the only old style Skandic I've had experience with hasn't really had that issues.  Its good hearing guys like you havent had any any real problems.  Looks like it would be about a $1000 change getting a new ECM and post.


There are two types of people in the world: those who bought a Tundra/Skandic/Expedition, and those who wished they had...


#4 YBKewl

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Posted 28 April 2021 - 11:06 AM

1000$ is a hefty price to pay to avoid a wiggle once in a while.

 

I'm form the generation that use to blow my Nintendo cartriges to get them to work so I dont find this to be an issue. Unlike my Nintendo cartrige wich could involve a couple of minutes fiddling, I have a 100% succes rate with my DESS key at the first wiggle.



#5 LabradorBoy

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Posted 28 April 2021 - 01:16 PM

I have to agree with the posts here, this isn't a big deal, especially if you don't remove it often or at all.  In my area many people have put a zip-tie around the base of the cap to help keep it tighter.  Nothing crazy now, just a click or two to keep it snug.  Usually works quite well.



#6 broncoformudv

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Posted 28 April 2021 - 01:38 PM

I have never had a DESS key failure and seldom need to do the wiggle.  But I also only remove mine once every other year or so.  I have two 2006 Summit 800's that have DESS and they have never failed and my 2015 Expy has never had an issue either.  Not worth spending all that time and money to fix something that isn't broken.  


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#7 vinci_78

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Posted 29 April 2021 - 07:31 PM

1000$ is a hefty price to pay to avoid a wiggle once in a while.

 

I'm form the generation that use to blow my Nintendo cartriges to get them to work so I dont find this to be an issue. Unlike my Nintendo cartrige wich could involve a couple of minutes fiddling, I have a 100% succes rate with my DESS key at the first wiggle.

 

Ive paid $1000 for a wiggle! 



#8 Daag44

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Posted 03 May 2021 - 02:30 PM

Ive paid $1000 for a wiggle! 

 
Did you spend a lot time playing Nintendo too?

 

Sorry, no disrespect, just a little fun :)


Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R P-TEK Electrical Troubleshooting #1 and #2 
800R Turbo
850 Center Oil line for coolant pump melted
850 Main Oil line caught fire #1 and #2
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's and Ronn's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
Crankshaft runout - maximum allowable specs 
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Electrical - ECM drivers for Ignition Coils and E-TEC injectors 
Electrical - Diagnoses of a failed ECM
Electrical - 30A Battery Charging Fuse Socket Diagnoses and Relay
Electrical - Relay Coil Wine
Electrical - Relay Testing
Electrical - Battery Charging Relay Diagnostic 
Electrical - Troubleshooting with BRP video 
Electrical - Solder vs Crimp
Electrical - Diagram for Fanners on page 3
Engine Break-In 
Engine Weight 
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Electric Start troubleshooting
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC eRAVE position code recurring
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
E-TEC Voltage Rectifier Regulator troubleshooting
E-TEC Power Fades are not normal and can be fixed
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 Steering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Longevity - 800R E-TEC 
Mikuni o-ring for carb float assembly - Arctic Cat part# 6505-875 or from Amazon and eBay
Muffler Red Hot
Off-trail riding for flatlanders
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pictures - How to post with the correct orientation
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Power Loss - How to diagnose in the field
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
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Squish - The limit
Squish - A discussion on head design
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Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator Removal on page 3
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
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Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#9 _Jack

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Posted 03 May 2021 - 05:32 PM

I have a 2014 with the old style key.  It was worn and needed the wiggle.  So I bought a new key and almost new base.  Still needs the wiggle.  The new style key is probably glue-able.  The old style, not so much. 

 

The sled comes to a very quick stop when the throttle is released, so don't think the key attached to me would offer any advantage to being clipped to the throttle cable where it is currently clipped.  Expect others do the same.  Mainly trail and logging road riding.  

 

Is it a dream to think the key can be programmed out?  

 

_Jack



#10 Klondiker

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Posted 03 May 2021 - 06:00 PM

Ive paid $1000 for a wiggle! 

Was it worth it? :rolleyes:


There are two types of people in the world: those who bought a Tundra/Skandic/Expedition, and those who wished they had...


#11 Oilburner

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Posted 03 May 2021 - 08:58 PM

I have a 2014 with the old style key.  It was worn and needed the wiggle.  So I bought a new key and almost new base.  Still needs the wiggle.  The new style key is probably glue-able.  The old style, not so much. 

 

The sled comes to a very quick stop when the throttle is released, so don't think the key attached to me would offer any advantage to being clipped to the throttle cable where it is currently clipped.  Expect others do the same.  Mainly trail and logging road riding.  

 

Is it a dream to think the key can be programmed out?  

 

_Jack

I believe it is doable with aftermarket scan tools, I believe CanDooPro will do it. Not sure if it is possible with the OEM BUDS tool, I would expect so. That would take out the antitheft portion of it, the reed switch (magnetic) inside would still be active, but I guess that could be bypassed also.

 

The tether isn't that important for when you let off the throttle and the sled rolls to a stop upright, it is more important if your sled rolls and is upside down with no oil (4 stroke) and you can't get to it to shut it off, or if a branch gets caught in the throttle flipper (been there done that) etc. There are many situations where the throttle can get pinned or you would want it to shut off if you got separated from the sled. A sled will also freewheel a lot farther downhill if the engine is running than if it is off. That little bit of belt drag can keep it going...


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#12 Daag44

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Posted 03 May 2021 - 11:28 PM

It will be at the expense of anyone that can take off with it too. It is all fun until a young kid does it and you are the only one responsible.
 
Please don't take this a some sort of higher lesson. I am merely pointing out the negative side, like turning off the security key from your pickup so that any kid an get in and take off with it. Other than the obvious problem of thief, any kid taking off on a sled is the real concern.
 
<At 10-14 yro I am a lot smarter. I can figure a perfect time and place to jump the sled and take off. Sure you will get angry, but only if I am caught. I already consider myself smarter than you for making the attempt, so you will never even figure it out what happened unless you catch me. I could make a mistake and crash the sled, but I have seen you ride it countless times and I think I can do as good or better. You see me as just a kid, but I am a lot smarter than you think.>

Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R P-TEK Electrical Troubleshooting #1 and #2 
800R Turbo
850 Center Oil line for coolant pump melted
850 Main Oil line caught fire #1 and #2
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's and Ronn's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
Crankshaft runout - maximum allowable specs 
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Electrical - ECM drivers for Ignition Coils and E-TEC injectors 
Electrical - Diagnoses of a failed ECM
Electrical - 30A Battery Charging Fuse Socket Diagnoses and Relay
Electrical - Relay Coil Wine
Electrical - Relay Testing
Electrical - Battery Charging Relay Diagnostic 
Electrical - Troubleshooting with BRP video 
Electrical - Solder vs Crimp
Electrical - Diagram for Fanners on page 3
Engine Break-In 
Engine Weight 
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Electric Start troubleshooting
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC eRAVE position code recurring
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
E-TEC Voltage Rectifier Regulator troubleshooting
E-TEC Power Fades are not normal and can be fixed
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 Steering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Longevity - 800R E-TEC 
Mikuni o-ring for carb float assembly - Arctic Cat part# 6505-875 or from Amazon and eBay
Muffler Red Hot
Off-trail riding for flatlanders
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pictures - How to post with the correct orientation
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Power Loss - How to diagnose in the field
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Seafoam for E-TEC injectors
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Spark Plugs cracked
Squish - The limit
Squish - A discussion on head design
Stator and Relay Diagnostic 
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator Removal on page 3
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#13 suv1

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Posted 07 May 2021 - 06:11 AM

pretty much everyone here 10 years old and up is very familiar with driving a snow machine and many has their own sled, no need to "steal" one, the same with guns, teach them early so when they hit the legal age to drive or shoot they don't feel the need to act like idiots  :)  


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#14 08SWT

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Posted 07 May 2021 - 08:02 AM

It seems like a little ingenuity would fix the wiggle like a piece of scotch tape around it, tin foil, or something. All under $1,000.


Edited by 08SWT, 07 May 2021 - 08:05 AM.

Previous sleds, oldest first;

 

Yamaha Exiter

Polaris Widetrack GT

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#15 YBKewl

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Posted 07 May 2021 - 08:28 AM

I use to clip the tether to the steering post while driving and I would need to wiggle it every time to restart the sled.

 

Last winter I tried to let the tether untied. It restart every time without playing with the key.






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