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#1 TimVT

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Posted 11 April 2021 - 06:16 PM

I just got a '11 GSX 600 etec for cheap with a blown top end. From further investigation, the bottom end is gone as well so looking at a new motor. 

 

I know I can get a rebuilt short block for about $1600 but looking to see if I can find a good used one? Anyone have one or know of one? 

 

 

Also trying to make sure that I fully know the root cause. The previous owner said the gas filter was totally plugged with degrading hose so it leaned out. Only one cylinder was shot so I was puzzled with that explanation as I would expect both cylinders to lean out. When I split the case, one bearing was completely shot. It is the center bearing which is the only one not lubed with isoflex. So I am wondering if the oil for that side stopped working, destroyed the bearing that then destroyed the top end on that side. The oil line appeared ok. Doesn't this sled have separate controls for the oil on each side that would support this theory?  Has anyone had issues with the oil pumps on this engine? I want to make sure that is right before I put a new engine in. 

 

Thanks for your help!



#2 12/3

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Posted 11 April 2021 - 08:56 PM

Can’t help with your questions but my vote would be for a short block engine instead of rebuilding.

#3 Daag44

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Posted 11 April 2021 - 10:49 PM

Can’t help with your questions but my vote would be for a short block engine instead of rebuilding.

 
I would suggest the same. I would also suggest parting it out if the owner felt that monitoring the two injectors was more of a pain than anything. It can run right for 25,000 km, but once it stops running right, then I think it is best to find the problem, or give it to someone else with the honesty that the problem was not found.

 

Most who post these threads want to learn it, but they are not sure if it is worth the trouble. All that I know is, when I put an engine back together, I better make sure it works right. Otherwise I will end up with more trouble than I cared for..

 

The ominous question has always been why did one cylinder/piston fail and not the other. It is an never ending question, but worth answering.


Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R P-TEK Electrical Troubleshooting #1 and #2 
800R Turbo
850 Center Oil line for coolant pump melted
850 Main Oil line caught fire #1 and #2
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's and Ronn's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
Crankshaft runout - maximum allowable specs 
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Electrical - ECM drivers for Ignition Coils and E-TEC injectors 
Electrical - Diagnoses of a failed ECM
Electrical - 30A Battery Charging Fuse Socket Diagnoses and Relay
Electrical - Relay Coil Wine
Electrical - Relay Testing
Electrical - Battery Charging Relay Diagnostic 
Electrical - Troubleshooting with BRP video 
Electrical - Solder vs Crimp
Electrical - Diagram for Fanners on page 3
Engine Break-In 
Engine Weight 
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Electric Start troubleshooting
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC eRAVE position code recurring
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
E-TEC Voltage Rectifier Regulator troubleshooting
E-TEC Power Fades are not normal and can be fixed
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 Steering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Longevity - 800R E-TEC 
Mikuni o-ring for carb float assembly - Arctic Cat part# 6505-875 or from Amazon and eBay
Muffler Red Hot
Off-trail riding for flatlanders
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pictures - How to post with the correct orientation
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Power Loss - How to diagnose in the field
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Seafoam for E-TEC injectors
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Spark Plugs cracked
Squish - The limit
Squish - A discussion on head design
Stator and Relay Diagnostic 
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator Removal on page 3
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#4 TimVT

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Posted 12 April 2021 - 06:05 AM

 
I would suggest the same. I would also suggest parting it out if the owner felt that monitoring the two injectors was more of a pain than anything. It can run right for 25,000 km, but once it stops running right, then I think it is best to find the problem, or give it to someone else with the honesty that the problem was not found.

 

Most who post these threads want to learn it, but they are not sure if it is worth the trouble. All that I know is, when I put an engine back together, I better make sure it works right. Otherwise I will end up with more trouble than I cared for..

 

The ominous question has always been why did one cylinder/piston fail and not the other. It is an never ending question, but worth answering.

 

I definitely want to get to the bottom of it but also haven't ruled out parting it. 

 

This is my first etec so don't know a lot about the injectors. What is involved with monitoring them? I ruled out the injectors because of the debris in the crank. I thought is that if that cylinder leaned out, the piston would be toast with not as much debris or sludge in the crank and definitely not enough to destroy the bearing this bad. The bearing was completely destroyed, with a bit of sludge in the bottom. So my conclusion was that the bottom end failed first leading to the failure in the top end...unless there was a double failure... 

 

But this question is what led to me hoping I could find a running engine that would include injectors to help rule out other possible issues that caused this motor to fail. And also putting in a new oil pump. 



#5 TimVT

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Posted 12 April 2021 - 06:13 AM

oh, something else I should mention, the crankshaft was also bent. I had about .025 runout on the end of the pto; mag side was ok. the bend was in the bottom rod pin on the bad (pto) side. 

 

Maybe the bearing had failed for a while but kept running which caused the crankshaft to bend? But then a separate failure on the top caused it to burn out? 

 

That would concur with the fuel line being blocked. Previous owner said he could not even blow through the clogged filter. But this still would not explain why only one side leaned out unless there is a third issue? 


Edited by TimVT, 12 April 2021 - 06:14 AM.


#6 REV-O-LUTION

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Posted 12 April 2021 - 06:25 PM

   i wonder if a broken belt sticking in or around the clutch could cause the crank to bent ????  just a thought...   :rolleyes:


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#7 Daag44

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Posted 12 April 2021 - 11:56 PM

I definitely want to get to the bottom of it but also haven't ruled out parting it. 
 
This is my first etec so don't know a lot about the injectors. What is involved with monitoring them? I ruled out the injectors because of the debris in the crank. I thought is that if that cylinder leaned out, the piston would be toast with not as much debris or sludge in the crank and definitely not enough to destroy the bearing this bad. The bearing was completely destroyed, with a bit of sludge in the bottom. So my conclusion was that the bottom end failed first leading to the failure in the top end...unless there was a double failure... 
 
But this question is what led to me hoping I could find a running engine that would include injectors to help rule out other possible issues that caused this motor to fail. And also putting in a new oil pump.

 
Each injector has its own flow characteristics that get measured on a test bench to determine how they need to be compensated at different rpm. The results are then used to generate a code for the ECM to make corrections which provides an equal flow between all engines. The only way I know to verify it is working as it should and within my means is to monitor exhaust gas temperature. It isn't perfect, but I find it works well with a new engine.
 
For the center bearing failure I think it is difficult to say, but it isn't uncommon for a center bearing to fail before any other bearing. It's been like that since the 600 HO carb which is the same engine that your E-TEC is based on, but BRP has done work on the lower end for durability. If you go with an OEM shortblock then you don't need to worry about anything from the cylinder to the base. If you want to experience the build, then you can get a good kit from MCB.
 
Once the engine is closed-up, make sure the oil pump is delivering oil to all 4 lines and through the oil check valves, the fuel pressure and flow is good, the exhaust valves are operating correctly, and the voltage is good. These are main operations that I focus on. It provides me with assurance over a used engine that I don't know the history. Then feed it 91/90 and hope for the best.
 
This is all the easy stuff. The tough work is getting the engine in without accidentally knocking the oil check valves, getting everything routed and plugged-in right, and having to diagnose any problems like an engine light for no apparent reason.

Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R P-TEK Electrical Troubleshooting #1 and #2 
800R Turbo
850 Center Oil line for coolant pump melted
850 Main Oil line caught fire #1 and #2
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's and Ronn's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
Crankshaft runout - maximum allowable specs 
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Electrical - ECM drivers for Ignition Coils and E-TEC injectors 
Electrical - Diagnoses of a failed ECM
Electrical - 30A Battery Charging Fuse Socket Diagnoses and Relay
Electrical - Relay Coil Wine
Electrical - Relay Testing
Electrical - Battery Charging Relay Diagnostic 
Electrical - Troubleshooting with BRP video 
Electrical - Solder vs Crimp
Electrical - Diagram for Fanners on page 3
Engine Break-In 
Engine Weight 
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Electric Start troubleshooting
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC eRAVE position code recurring
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
E-TEC Voltage Rectifier Regulator troubleshooting
E-TEC Power Fades are not normal and can be fixed
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 Steering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Longevity - 800R E-TEC 
Mikuni o-ring for carb float assembly - Arctic Cat part# 6505-875 or from Amazon and eBay
Muffler Red Hot
Off-trail riding for flatlanders
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pictures - How to post with the correct orientation
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Power Loss - How to diagnose in the field
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Seafoam for E-TEC injectors
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Spark Plugs cracked
Squish - The limit
Squish - A discussion on head design
Stator and Relay Diagnostic 
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator Removal on page 3
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#8 TimVT

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Posted 13 April 2021 - 06:11 AM

 
Each injector has its own flow characteristics that get measured on a test bench to determine how they need to be compensated at different rpm. The results are then used to generate a code for the ECM to make corrections which provides an equal flow between all engines. The only way I know to verify it is working as it should and within my means is to monitor exhaust gas temperature. It isn't perfect, but I find it works well with a new engine.
 
For the center bearing failure I think it is difficult to say, but it isn't uncommon for a center bearing to fail before any other bearing. It's been like that since the 600 HO carb which is the same engine that your E-TEC is based on, but BRP has done work on the lower end for durability. If you go with an OEM shortblock then you don't need to worry about anything from the cylinder to the base. If you want to experience the build, then you can get a good kit from MCB.
 
Once the engine is closed-up, make sure the oil pump is delivering oil to all 4 lines and through the oil check valves, the fuel pressure and flow is good, the exhaust valves are operating correctly, and the voltage is good. These are main operations that I focus on. It provides me with assurance over a used engine that I don't know the history. Then feed it 91/90 and hope for the best.
 
This is all the easy stuff. The tough work is getting the engine in without accidentally knocking the oil check valves, getting everything routed and plugged-in right, and having to diagnose any problems like an engine light for no apparent reason.

 

Good information! Thanks!

 

Since this sled has one EGT sensor in the muffler, if one cylinder is hot, wouldn't the good cylinder mute the reading at this sensor? Or does the one hot cylinder still really pull the temperature up? What is a good temperature for this engine? 

 

How do I test oil flow? Is there a trick to causes that pump to turn on without engine on? 



#9 613rev

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Posted 13 April 2021 - 07:46 AM

Post a pic of the piston on the bad cylinder. If you have a center bearing disintegrate and .025” runout on the crank, the debris could easily be what smoked the engine. When you tear down the bottom end you’ll likely see the water pump drive gear torn up, meaning it got real hot all of a sudden. A ring walk or lean piston isn’t going to destroy a lower bearing, the engine won’t run long enough. Your injectors and oil pump should be checked, but they are likely ok.

#10 Daag44

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Posted 13 April 2021 - 04:27 PM

The 25 thou runout was measured on a failed crankshaft. Who knows how bad it was prior to the event. Too many question marks after the destructiion. Take measurements on the rebuild then guess how long the next one will last.

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Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R P-TEK Electrical Troubleshooting #1 and #2 
800R Turbo
850 Center Oil line for coolant pump melted
850 Main Oil line caught fire #1 and #2
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's and Ronn's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
Crankshaft runout - maximum allowable specs 
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Electrical - ECM drivers for Ignition Coils and E-TEC injectors 
Electrical - Diagnoses of a failed ECM
Electrical - 30A Battery Charging Fuse Socket Diagnoses and Relay
Electrical - Relay Coil Wine
Electrical - Relay Testing
Electrical - Battery Charging Relay Diagnostic 
Electrical - Troubleshooting with BRP video 
Electrical - Solder vs Crimp
Electrical - Diagram for Fanners on page 3
Engine Break-In 
Engine Weight 
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Electric Start troubleshooting
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC eRAVE position code recurring
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
E-TEC Voltage Rectifier Regulator troubleshooting
E-TEC Power Fades are not normal and can be fixed
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 Steering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Longevity - 800R E-TEC 
Mikuni o-ring for carb float assembly - Arctic Cat part# 6505-875 or from Amazon and eBay
Muffler Red Hot
Off-trail riding for flatlanders
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pictures - How to post with the correct orientation
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Power Loss - How to diagnose in the field
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Seafoam for E-TEC injectors
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Spark Plugs cracked
Squish - The limit
Squish - A discussion on head design
Stator and Relay Diagnostic 
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator Removal on page 3
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#11 TimVT

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Posted 13 April 2021 - 05:09 PM

Here are the pictures of the two piston. 

 

The coolant pump shaft was clean and oil clean. The seal beside the blown bearing was ok. 

Attached Images

  • Photo Apr 13, 5 26 41 PM.jpg
  • Photo Apr 13, 5 27 25 PM.jpg


#12 Daag44

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Posted 13 April 2021 - 10:37 PM

I see debris from the lower end that was bouncing in the combustion chamber and impregnating into the piston crown. The exhaust side of the piston shows it lost its lubrication film, which is the easy part. Now figure out why.


Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R P-TEK Electrical Troubleshooting #1 and #2 
800R Turbo
850 Center Oil line for coolant pump melted
850 Main Oil line caught fire #1 and #2
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's and Ronn's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
Crankshaft runout - maximum allowable specs 
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Electrical - ECM drivers for Ignition Coils and E-TEC injectors 
Electrical - Diagnoses of a failed ECM
Electrical - 30A Battery Charging Fuse Socket Diagnoses and Relay
Electrical - Relay Coil Wine
Electrical - Relay Testing
Electrical - Battery Charging Relay Diagnostic 
Electrical - Troubleshooting with BRP video 
Electrical - Solder vs Crimp
Electrical - Diagram for Fanners on page 3
Engine Break-In 
Engine Weight 
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Electric Start troubleshooting
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC eRAVE position code recurring
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
E-TEC Voltage Rectifier Regulator troubleshooting
E-TEC Power Fades are not normal and can be fixed
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 Steering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Longevity - 800R E-TEC 
Mikuni o-ring for carb float assembly - Arctic Cat part# 6505-875 or from Amazon and eBay
Muffler Red Hot
Off-trail riding for flatlanders
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pictures - How to post with the correct orientation
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Power Loss - How to diagnose in the field
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Seafoam for E-TEC injectors
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Spark Plugs cracked
Squish - The limit
Squish - A discussion on head design
Stator and Relay Diagnostic 
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator Removal on page 3
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#13 613rev

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Posted 14 April 2021 - 12:56 PM

Those pistons look like the engine was runningg fine with adequate lubrication and fuel. Series 3 bearing failure, likely a high mileage engine. Once that bearing starts to break up, there is no support for the force of combustion and the crank twists, that’s where the large runout comes from. An exchange crank and a top end would get it back in the snow, with an injector test to ascertain flow.

#14 MCB Performance

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Posted 14 April 2021 - 01:13 PM

The pics are a bit too far for my old eyes but I believe I can see some erosion on the top of that piston. (as well as debris impact). I also agree that that pump needs to be checked. If the Check valve gets weak guess what happens to the already problematic bearings.

 

Also remember if the crank goes out of phase that cylinder timing can change...

 

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#15 Daag44

Daag44

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  • DOOCrew
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  • Location:South Shore, Quebec
  • Interests:1973 Olympic
  • Sled:2007 1000 SDI

Posted 14 April 2021 - 06:26 PM

Good information! Thanks!
 
Since this sled has one EGT sensor in the muffler, if one cylinder is hot, wouldn't the good cylinder mute the reading at this sensor? Or does the one hot cylinder still really pull the temperature up? What is a good temperature for this engine? 
 
How do I test oil flow? Is there a trick to causes that pump to turn on without engine on?

  
The muffler EGT - displayed as EGTM on the premium gauge with the option turned on - is a good indication of how lean it runs. The problem is that we don't have a chart for easy reference. For a simple example, running E15 will cause the EGT to rise higher than E0. The E-TEC monitors the EGTM to make adjustments if it gets too hot. That's the easy part. 
 
The EGT readings that I was referring to was in the y-pipe. Since both cylinders share the same tuned pipe, the y-pipe is the only place to to monitor the difference between cylinders. In a well working twin, both cylinders will be relatively even. The big question is, when the disparity between the two is too large, which cylinder suffers more?
 
The emblematic two stroke failure question on a twin is why did one fail and not the other? I have not seen two cylinders fail at the same time for the same reason. I imagine a reseller or shop will see more, but I am neither of those. I saw one on DooTalk and thought what are the chances. I encourage you to look it up with some type of Google search like <piston failure site:dootalk.com>. You can also use the DooTalk search engine, but it isn't great. The advantage with Google is you can select Images to quickly see a plethora of piston failures.
 
The oil flow test is done by activating the oil pump using BUDS or CanDoo. I doubt you can go to a BRP dealer and ask for one. As far that I know, it isn't a common or accepted procedure. Even on DooTalk, those of us who do this are few and far in between. I am confident that MCB recommends replacing the oil check valves on a rebuilt, and I believe BRP does this as well on their shortblock rebuilds.
 
I apologize if I don't have all the answers. I am just another guy like you with more or less experience. There are only a few pros who are willing to post on DooTalk, and on the same token only a minute percentage of owners like yourself who are willing to share their engine failures on a public forum. I think a manicure is more appealing that posting an engine failure lol


Edited by Daag44, 14 April 2021 - 06:58 PM.

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850 Main Oil line caught fire #1 and #2
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BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
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