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#1 ncapster

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Posted 29 January 2021 - 06:26 PM

But no active p-codes when I checked. The engine would hesitate and almost feel like it was running on one cylinder but then it would kick back in and be fine for a while before it would start acting up again. It seemed to get worse the longer I rode it but I was just trying to get back to the truck. It would act better if I was more steady on the throttle and be worse if I was more on / off or abrupt with the throttle. Sled is a 2018 MXZ-850 with 3,100 miles on it. Any ideas? Could it be as simple as plugs? Or am I losing an injector? With no p-code I pretty much have to bring it in. Sled just ran out of warranty to, first sled I’ve kept longer than 3 years / out of warranty in years and the first real ride of the first season out of warranty and now this. At least I got the 600 ACE for a back-up sled. My first trip of the year is planned for next weekend. I have a feeling I’ll be rockin the lil ACE...


#2 Daag44

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Posted 29 January 2021 - 06:53 PM

I have heard of an engine light without triggering a code that could be read on the gauge, but the sled may have been shut down prior to taking the code so who knows. In that case the dealer did find a code that was recorded in the ECM.


Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R P-TEK Electrical Troubleshooting #1 and #2 
800R Turbo
850 Center Oil line for coolant pump melted
850 Main Oil line caught fire #1 and #2
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's and Ronn's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Electrical - Diagnoses of a failed ECM
Electrical - 30A Battery Charging Fuse Socket Diagnoses and Relay
Electrical - Relay Coil Wine
Electrical - Relay Testing
Electrical - Battery Charging Relay Diagnostic 
Electrical - Troubleshooting with BRP video 
Electrical - Solder vs Crimp
Electrical - Diagram for Fanners on page 3
Engine Break-In 
Engine Weight 
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Electric Start troubleshooting
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC eRAVE position code recurring
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
E-TEC Voltage Rectifier Regulator troubleshooting
E-TEC Power Fades are not normal and can be fixed
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 Steering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Longevity - 800R E-TEC 
Mikuni o-ring for carb float assembly - Arctic Cat part# 6505-875 or from Amazon and eBay
Muffler Red Hot
Off-trail riding for flatlanders
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pictures - How to post with the correct orientation
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Power Loss - How to diagnose in the field
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Seafoam for E-TEC injectors
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Spark Plugs cracked
Squish - The limit
Squish - A discussion on head design
Stator and Relay Diagnostic 
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator Removal on page 3
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix

#3 ncapster

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Posted 29 January 2021 - 09:01 PM

I’m hoping it’s just a sensor or connector and not something serious. My 2015 1200 acted up to (check engine and wouldn’t run over 4K RPM) but at least that sled threw a code and it just turned out to be a lose / broken connector. After a quick call to the dealer I was able to fix it myself with a zip tie.

Anybody else ever get a check engine message on a 850 without the sled throwing a code?

Edited by ncapster, 29 January 2021 - 09:03 PM.



#4 Couch1

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Posted 30 January 2021 - 05:42 AM

Have you had the hood off recently? Maybe didn’t get connector seated all the way?

#5 Jeb©

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Posted 30 January 2021 - 08:48 AM

But no active p-codes when I checked. The engine would hesitate and almost feel like it was running on one cylinder but then it would kick back in and be fine for a while before it would start acting up again. It seemed to get worse the longer I rode it but I was just trying to get back to the truck. It would act better if I was more steady on the throttle and be worse if I was more on / off or abrupt with the throttle. Sled is a 2018 MXZ-850 with 3,100 miles on it. Any ideas? Could it be as simple as plugs? Or am I losing an injector? With no p-code I pretty much have to bring it in. Sled just ran out of warranty to, first sled I’ve kept longer than 3 years / out of warranty in years and the first real ride of the first season out of warranty and now this. At least I got the 600 ACE for a back-up sled. My first trip of the year is planned for next weekend. I have a feeling I’ll be rockin the lil ACE...

The most important thing you can do is try rolling the engine over by hand immediately after it quits, any tightness or binding and you have an answer. If it rolls over perfect then at least maybe just a sensor, injector etc. 


"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." � Thomas Jefferson

#6 ncapster

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Posted 30 January 2021 - 08:57 AM

The most important thing you can do is try rolling the engine over by hand immediately after it quits, any tightness or binding and you have an answer. If it rolls over perfect then at least maybe just a sensor, injector etc.


It never quit running on it’s own. I’m gonna call my dealer as soon as they open, hopefully the service department isn’t backed up.


#7 ncapster

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Posted 30 January 2021 - 10:29 AM

Guy in the service department thinks it might be spark plugs. He asked if it was running warm, said with the marginal conditions they’ve had several 850s coming in with a fouled plug. Could it really be that simple? And can a plug foul intermittently like that? He said it’s worth a shot cuz the hood has to come off and they charge .6 or .7 hours of labor to do the job.


#8 ncapster

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Posted 30 January 2021 - 06:46 PM

Well I ruled out spark plugs. And found a broken O-ring and was able to pull a code. Does anybody know what this code means?

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#9 ncapster

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Posted 30 January 2021 - 07:14 PM

Think I may have figured it out ??? Found this old post in another thread. I’m guessing the o-ring I found was the PTO injector “ gasket “ / seal.

To the OP:
I appended to your thread last spring. Sorry I forgot to come back. My issue was the pto cylinder-top injector. One bolt had loosened, the injector base gasket burnt thru with combustion gasses ! and that burnt the white wire that pulses to fire the injector. My dealer diagnosed it properly from a close-up cellphone photo I sent him. Hauled it in, fixed in half an hour. Dealer impressed me. I couldn't see the issue, but they spotted it in my photo. Leo's South, Lakeville, Minneapolis suburb.
Good luck.




#10 ncapster

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Posted 30 January 2021 - 07:51 PM

I guess the P0264 code means “ cylinder 2 injector circuit low “. So maybe it’s the mag injector seal / o-ring I found?

Edited by ncapster, 30 January 2021 - 07:56 PM.



#11 Daag44

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Posted 30 January 2021 - 08:51 PM

So you finally got a code! That is the good news.

The bad, P0264 is not a code I would want. Something to do with wiring?

 

P0264 - Injector Cyl. #2 (MAG) shorted to ground

 


Edited by Daag44, 30 January 2021 - 08:52 PM.

Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R P-TEK Electrical Troubleshooting #1 and #2 
800R Turbo
850 Center Oil line for coolant pump melted
850 Main Oil line caught fire #1 and #2
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's and Ronn's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Electrical - Diagnoses of a failed ECM
Electrical - 30A Battery Charging Fuse Socket Diagnoses and Relay
Electrical - Relay Coil Wine
Electrical - Relay Testing
Electrical - Battery Charging Relay Diagnostic 
Electrical - Troubleshooting with BRP video 
Electrical - Solder vs Crimp
Electrical - Diagram for Fanners on page 3
Engine Break-In 
Engine Weight 
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Electric Start troubleshooting
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC eRAVE position code recurring
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
E-TEC Voltage Rectifier Regulator troubleshooting
E-TEC Power Fades are not normal and can be fixed
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 Steering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Longevity - 800R E-TEC 
Mikuni o-ring for carb float assembly - Arctic Cat part# 6505-875 or from Amazon and eBay
Muffler Red Hot
Off-trail riding for flatlanders
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pictures - How to post with the correct orientation
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Power Loss - How to diagnose in the field
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Seafoam for E-TEC injectors
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Spark Plugs cracked
Squish - The limit
Squish - A discussion on head design
Stator and Relay Diagnostic 
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator Removal on page 3
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix

#12 ncapster

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Posted 09 February 2021 - 05:28 PM

Well the good news is the part isn't back ordered. The bad news is the part is the ECM. Said they ran all sorts of tests and the sled passed with flying colors, injectors seem to be in perfect working order. So they're going to try replacing the computer and see if the problem goes away. Said there's no way to test the ECM but it's kinda the go to when they can't find anything else wrong with the sled. Said he wouldn't charge me for the ECM if it doesn't fix it. With any luck it will do the trick and I'll have the sled back in time for my UP trip next week. I just don't know if I'll be able trust it though. I might just toss the 600 ACE in the back of the truck just in case / for a back-up. 




#13 Daag44

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Posted 10 February 2021 - 02:43 AM

I was encouraged from your reply until I scrolled up and realized my last reply had no links to previous known issues. I will eventually add some, but for the time being I hope it works. Until proven otherwise, I have zero confidence in an ECM replacement. Nothing, nada, zero, rien. For this reason, my vote is with the 600 ACE.

 

It irks me that someone like you who has brought some of the best subjects to DooTalk to promote Ski-Doo, will also get such low level of troubleshooting. There is a disconnect that is worth mentioning. You have knack of for bringing the the most interesting subjects to the forefront. If you brought your sled to me, I would literally be shaking from nervousness and probably pee in my pants lol

 

For what you have done for Ski-Doo, I would post the problem on the Dealer Network and call as many as I needed to get the very best info.


Edited by Daag44, 10 February 2021 - 02:47 AM.

Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R P-TEK Electrical Troubleshooting #1 and #2 
800R Turbo
850 Center Oil line for coolant pump melted
850 Main Oil line caught fire #1 and #2
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's and Ronn's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Electrical - Diagnoses of a failed ECM
Electrical - 30A Battery Charging Fuse Socket Diagnoses and Relay
Electrical - Relay Coil Wine
Electrical - Relay Testing
Electrical - Battery Charging Relay Diagnostic 
Electrical - Troubleshooting with BRP video 
Electrical - Solder vs Crimp
Electrical - Diagram for Fanners on page 3
Engine Break-In 
Engine Weight 
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Electric Start troubleshooting
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC eRAVE position code recurring
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
E-TEC Voltage Rectifier Regulator troubleshooting
E-TEC Power Fades are not normal and can be fixed
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 Steering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Longevity - 800R E-TEC 
Mikuni o-ring for carb float assembly - Arctic Cat part# 6505-875 or from Amazon and eBay
Muffler Red Hot
Off-trail riding for flatlanders
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pictures - How to post with the correct orientation
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Power Loss - How to diagnose in the field
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Seafoam for E-TEC injectors
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Spark Plugs cracked
Squish - The limit
Squish - A discussion on head design
Stator and Relay Diagnostic 
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator Removal on page 3
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix

#14 Daag44

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Posted 10 February 2021 - 02:57 AM

I will give you what I have, but  BRP better have 100 times more than a public forum:
 
 
https://www.dootalk....2#entry23182897
 
https://www.dootalk....il-p0264-fault/

https://www.snowest....91/post-4186873
 
https://www.snowest....ad.php?t=432581


Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R P-TEK Electrical Troubleshooting #1 and #2 
800R Turbo
850 Center Oil line for coolant pump melted
850 Main Oil line caught fire #1 and #2
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's and Ronn's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Electrical - Diagnoses of a failed ECM
Electrical - 30A Battery Charging Fuse Socket Diagnoses and Relay
Electrical - Relay Coil Wine
Electrical - Relay Testing
Electrical - Battery Charging Relay Diagnostic 
Electrical - Troubleshooting with BRP video 
Electrical - Solder vs Crimp
Electrical - Diagram for Fanners on page 3
Engine Break-In 
Engine Weight 
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Electric Start troubleshooting
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC eRAVE position code recurring
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
E-TEC Voltage Rectifier Regulator troubleshooting
E-TEC Power Fades are not normal and can be fixed
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 Steering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Longevity - 800R E-TEC 
Mikuni o-ring for carb float assembly - Arctic Cat part# 6505-875 or from Amazon and eBay
Muffler Red Hot
Off-trail riding for flatlanders
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pictures - How to post with the correct orientation
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Power Loss - How to diagnose in the field
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Seafoam for E-TEC injectors
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Spark Plugs cracked
Squish - The limit
Squish - A discussion on head design
Stator and Relay Diagnostic 
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator Removal on page 3
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix

#15 ncapster

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Posted 10 February 2021 - 10:31 AM

Thanks, I've been doing some searching myself and came across some of the same threads. At this point it sounds like if it isn't the ECM it's most likely a short somewhere in the wiring harness. I plan on spending a few hours on the lake messing around to make darn sure I know if it's fixed or not before I haul it all the way to the UP. 

 

To be honest this little experience is kinda shaking my faith in E-Tecs with all of their complexity. Course IDK if I really want to go back to a 4-stroke (heavier steering, nose diving off bumps, & unguided missile in the deep). The only one I'd want is the 900T and then you have the complexity of the turbo system. Not to mention they're pretty spendy and I'm not exactly a fan of the ITC throttle. It's great for babysitting the kiddo but I don't care for it myself when I'm riding it with the regular key. I had been leaning towards a 600R for my next sled but now I'm not so sure. I might just say heck with it and get one of those new 85 HP Sports. That technology has been around since the early 90s. It would just be quite the drop in HP. Shoot the 600R would've been a big enough drop. I'm sure I could still have fun with it though, I can have fun on the little 60 HP ACE so I'm sure I could have a good time with 85 HP. And it would be nice and cheap, I would just have to get some different shocks for it. Decisions decisions...







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