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Causes to hydrolock 800R


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#1 Cjohman

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Posted 20 January 2021 - 03:12 PM

Mxz 800R 2009

Hi!
I bought a sleed that was broken. The seller said that it got seized on idle.
When tore apart the engine i noticed that the connecting rod were bent. Piston ok.
What causes hydrolock?
I have bought a rebuilded crank, 900$ (in Sweden) So I dont want it to happend again...

It wasn’t water that caused it. Fuel or oil were the reason.
Bad main valves carbs?
Oil injectors crank case?

Best regards/ Kalle, Sweden

#2 DTXRSB

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Posted 20 January 2021 - 06:36 PM

Sinking it in water....



#3 SPOCK

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Posted 20 January 2021 - 06:49 PM

Well, if it wasn't water that caused it sinking it wouldn't be the case eh? 

Fuel or oil huh? Gas from a flooding carb would be possible, it would be obvious I think.

Oil is a lot different issue, inner crank seals is another possibility.

If there's any evidence of coolant, then a broken crankcase is often the cause.



#4 windsurfnut

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Posted 20 January 2021 - 07:12 PM

inner crank bearings leaking enough oil into cylinders to hydrolock?  Its gravity fed from the oil resi.  I've had 2 800 etecs loose those seals, burned oil like crazy.  I suppose if enough leaks past it could do that?


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#5 MrGutz

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Posted 20 January 2021 - 07:57 PM

We had a 2009 Summit 800r, and it appears during the post mortem, that the fuel pump, which is mounted to the MAG Side, leaked into the crankcase, causing that side to hydro-lock. This went on to tear the cases apart.

The pump had a torn diaphragm and the best guess as the to cause was a large backfire.

These backfires are common with these 800s since the pilot circuit is very lean from the factory.

GutZ


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#6 Daag44

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Posted 21 January 2021 - 01:53 AM

We had a 2009 Summit 800r, and it appears during the post mortem, that the fuel pump, which is mounted to the MAG Side, leaked into the crankcase, causing that side to hydro-lock. This went on to tear the cases apart.

The pump had a torn diaphragm and the best guess as the to cause was a large backfire.

These backfires are common with these 800s since the pilot circuit is very lean from the factory.

GutZ

 
I didn't think to increase the pilot for the backfire. It was only happening when going into reverse or out of reverse, no sure which one. It was awful and I was worried about the seals.


Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R P-TEK Electrical Troubleshooting #1 and #2 
800R Turbo
850 Center Oil line for coolant pump melted
850 Main Oil line caught fire #1 and #2
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's and Ronn's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
Crankshaft runout - maximum allowable specs 
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Electrical - ECM drivers for Ignition Coils and E-TEC injectors 
Electrical - Diagnoses of a failed ECM
Electrical - 30A Battery Charging Fuse Socket Diagnoses and Relay
Electrical - Relay Coil Wine
Electrical - Relay Testing
Electrical - Battery Charging Relay Diagnostic 
Electrical - Troubleshooting with BRP video 
Electrical - Solder vs Crimp
Electrical - Diagram for Fanners on page 3
Engine Break-In 
Engine Weight 
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Electric Start troubleshooting
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC eRAVE position code recurring
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
E-TEC Voltage Rectifier Regulator troubleshooting
E-TEC Power Fades are not normal and can be fixed
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 Steering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Longevity - 800R E-TEC 
Mikuni o-ring for carb float assembly - Arctic Cat part# 6505-875 or from Amazon and eBay
Muffler Red Hot
Off-trail riding for flatlanders
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pictures - How to post with the correct orientation
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Power Loss - How to diagnose in the field
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Seafoam for E-TEC injectors
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Spark Plugs cracked
Squish - The limit
Squish - A discussion on head design
Stator and Relay Diagnostic 
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator Removal on page 3
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#7 MrGutz

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Posted 21 January 2021 - 10:07 PM

 
I didn't think to increase the pilot for the backfire. It was only happening when going into reverse or out of reverse, no sure which one. It was awful and I was worried about the seals.

 

This was someone else's idea, but I increased the pilot and added a shim under the needle and tadaa no more backfiring.

The backfiring for us was after running hard and coming to a quick stop. Throttle Chop at stop sign.

I think it beat up on the Reeds too.

GutZ


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#8 Daag44

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Posted 21 January 2021 - 10:37 PM

This was someone else's idea, but I increased the pilot and added a shim under the needle and tadaa no more backfiring.

The backfiring for us was after running hard and coming to a quick stop. Throttle Chop at stop sign.

I think it beat up on the Reeds too.

GutZ

 
I did like the fuel economy lol


Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R P-TEK Electrical Troubleshooting #1 and #2 
800R Turbo
850 Center Oil line for coolant pump melted
850 Main Oil line caught fire #1 and #2
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's and Ronn's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
Crankshaft runout - maximum allowable specs 
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Electrical - ECM drivers for Ignition Coils and E-TEC injectors 
Electrical - Diagnoses of a failed ECM
Electrical - 30A Battery Charging Fuse Socket Diagnoses and Relay
Electrical - Relay Coil Wine
Electrical - Relay Testing
Electrical - Battery Charging Relay Diagnostic 
Electrical - Troubleshooting with BRP video 
Electrical - Solder vs Crimp
Electrical - Diagram for Fanners on page 3
Engine Break-In 
Engine Weight 
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Electric Start troubleshooting
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC eRAVE position code recurring
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
E-TEC Voltage Rectifier Regulator troubleshooting
E-TEC Power Fades are not normal and can be fixed
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 Steering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Longevity - 800R E-TEC 
Mikuni o-ring for carb float assembly - Arctic Cat part# 6505-875 or from Amazon and eBay
Muffler Red Hot
Off-trail riding for flatlanders
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pictures - How to post with the correct orientation
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Power Loss - How to diagnose in the field
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Seafoam for E-TEC injectors
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Spark Plugs cracked
Squish - The limit
Squish - A discussion on head design
Stator and Relay Diagnostic 
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator Removal on page 3
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#9 codooster

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Posted 22 January 2021 - 01:20 AM

O-ring on the carb float assembly will allow a freeflow of fuel into the engine causing hydrolock.  See it all the time at my shop.....often enough that I replace the o-rings everytime I clean the carbs on a customer's sled.  BRP doesn't offer the o-ring..... just a $130 float assembly!!!!   

 

FYI  Arctic cat does sell them  $1.70....same o-ring.... part number 6505-875

 

Better than that, I will have to check on the part number for sure, but the last bag I bought was from amazon, but here they are on ebay....100 of them for $10 plus $5 shipping:

https://www.ebay.com...0-/313336890433

 

 

BTW  Same o-ring on all polaris, cat, and Doo,  Mikuni carbs with the plastic float setup


Edited by codooster, 22 January 2021 - 01:23 AM.


#10 Mike-337

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Posted 22 January 2021 - 01:48 AM

Leaky needle and seat, but dang! To bend a rod? Must be a big boy pulling on it!
The older i get, the faster i was.

#11 codooster

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Posted 22 January 2021 - 01:59 AM

Leaky needle and seat, but dang! To bend a rod? Must be a big boy pulling on it!

Or an e-start with a STRONG battery.

 

Or.....hydro one side with a quick fire on the other cylinder.....stranger things have happened.



#12 Cjohman

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Posted 22 January 2021 - 04:11 PM

Thank you for all good advise!

What I know is just second hand information, he saId that when started it, it was on idle then it happend.

The crankcase is ok. If it been swimming I dont know. There were no coolant in the crankcase when I opened it.

I’m gone change the diaphgram in the fuel pump, just in case. I can only find complete fuel pumps, is there no loose diaphgram to this pump?

Then i’ll go to arctic cat dealer for the o-rings👍🏻 codooster!

Some other things you think good to change just in case?

#13 stealth bomber

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Posted 23 January 2021 - 07:33 AM

If it was flooded with oil enough to hydro lock there should be evidence of the oil in the crankcase and exhaust, whereas fuel would eventually evaporate once stuff was pulled apart. Should be fairly easy to tell which liquid caused it. Aside from the stuff already mentioned, check or replace the oil injector nozzles.

#14 Daag44

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Posted 23 January 2021 - 11:51 AM

That's assuming it is a fluid ..........  lol

 

What about an integrated seal..... lol


Edited by Daag44, 23 January 2021 - 11:57 AM.

Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R P-TEK Electrical Troubleshooting #1 and #2 
800R Turbo
850 Center Oil line for coolant pump melted
850 Main Oil line caught fire #1 and #2
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's and Ronn's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
Crankshaft runout - maximum allowable specs 
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Electrical - ECM drivers for Ignition Coils and E-TEC injectors 
Electrical - Diagnoses of a failed ECM
Electrical - 30A Battery Charging Fuse Socket Diagnoses and Relay
Electrical - Relay Coil Wine
Electrical - Relay Testing
Electrical - Battery Charging Relay Diagnostic 
Electrical - Troubleshooting with BRP video 
Electrical - Solder vs Crimp
Electrical - Diagram for Fanners on page 3
Engine Break-In 
Engine Weight 
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Electric Start troubleshooting
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC eRAVE position code recurring
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
E-TEC Voltage Rectifier Regulator troubleshooting
E-TEC Power Fades are not normal and can be fixed
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 Steering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Longevity - 800R E-TEC 
Mikuni o-ring for carb float assembly - Arctic Cat part# 6505-875 or from Amazon and eBay
Muffler Red Hot
Off-trail riding for flatlanders
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pictures - How to post with the correct orientation
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Power Loss - How to diagnose in the field
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Seafoam for E-TEC injectors
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Spark Plugs cracked
Squish - The limit
Squish - A discussion on head design
Stator and Relay Diagnostic 
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator Removal on page 3
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#15 Cjohman

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Posted 23 January 2021 - 03:28 PM

If it was flooded with oil enough to hydro lock there should be evidence of the oil in the crankcase and exhaust, whereas fuel would eventually evaporate once stuff was pulled apart. Should be fairly easy to tell which liquid caused it. Aside from the stuff already mentioned, check or replace the oil injector nozzles.


It was a while since I disasembled the engine, my poor memory tells me that were oil in case but not enough for hydrolock. I have tried to check the oil injector nozzles with my mitervac, seems to be allright. But they might seize some other time. Best to replace! 👍🏻




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