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The mystery one-cylinder ETEC

ETEC coils fouling Cylinder

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#16 Daag44

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Posted 17 January 2021 - 05:31 PM

 Yes!  Adapter was needed.  

 
There you go, that is FANTASTIC news for you!

 

Can't get a high enough compression reading with the schrader valve further away. The added volume takes away some of the compression like turning a 12:1 CR to 11:1 . This is just an example as I didn't bother to calculate it.

 

By the way, the functioning of the schrader valves is very important. Two different gauges should read very close. How close? Let's just say definitely not 20 psi apart. The elevation AND temperature makes a big difference, and so does the oil film. But two gauges should be close enough.


Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R P-TEK Electrical Troubleshooting #1 and #2 
800R Turbo
850 Center Oil line for coolant pump melted
850 Main Oil line caught fire #1 and #2
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's and Ronn's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Electrical - Diagnoses of a failed ECM
Electrical - 30A Battery Charging Fuse Socket Diagnoses and Relay
Electrical - Relay Coil Wine
Electrical - Relay Testing
Electrical - Battery Charging Relay Diagnostic 
Electrical - Troubleshooting with BRP video 
Electrical - Solder vs Crimp
Electrical - Diagram for Fanners on page 3
Engine Break-In 
Engine Weight 
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Electric Start troubleshooting
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC eRAVE position code recurring
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
E-TEC Voltage Rectifier Regulator troubleshooting
E-TEC Power Fades are not normal and can be fixed
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 Steering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Longevity - 800R E-TEC 
Mikuni o-ring for carb float assembly - Arctic Cat part# 6505-875 or from Amazon and eBay
Muffler Red Hot
Off-trail riding for flatlanders
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pictures - How to post with the correct orientation
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Power Loss - How to diagnose in the field
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Seafoam for E-TEC injectors
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Spark Plugs cracked
Squish - The limit
Squish - A discussion on head design
Stator and Relay Diagnostic 
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator Removal on page 3
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix

#17 wileo

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Posted 17 January 2021 - 05:40 PM

I just had a 09 600tec bog and not re start

The plugs had spark when checking but when I put them back in nothing.

They were wet and wouldn’t fire in starter fluid.


I left the plugs out for the night. Put new plugs in and it Fired right up like nothing ever happened

#18 Geezjeff

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Posted 17 January 2021 - 06:34 PM

 
There you go, that is FANTASTIC news for you!

 

Can't get a high enough compression reading with the schrader valve further away. The added volume takes away some of the compression like turning a 12:1 CR to 11:1 . This is just an example as I didn't bother to calculate it.

 

By the way, the functioning of the schrader valves is very important. Two different gauges should read very close. How close? Let's just say definitely not 20 psi apart. The elevation AND temperature makes a big difference, and so does the oil film. But two gauges should be close enough.

That IS great news and solves the mystery I’ve been having with that gauge set.  I’ll test them again and get the delta on the two, but yeah - that’s great news and boy do I appreciate your expertise in clearing that up.  THANK YOU! 



#19 Geezjeff

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Posted 17 January 2021 - 06:46 PM

Well I’ll be a monkey’s uncle....

 

Took the sled back apart and got all ready to really dive in, and just quick wanted to see if anything magically improved by letting it sit, so I cranked it over and saw this!  Cracked spark plug.  Definitely didn’t do that when I put the coils in, so curious if either it happened on the trail or the plug was faulty for a while and I just started to see it.  Anyway - I’ll get new ones as soon as possible and let you all know the results, but this is very good (easy/cheap/noticable) news!  Appreciate all the help thus far.  This forum is amazing.  

 

Made a quick vid to share of the issue you can scope out here



#20 12/3

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Posted 17 January 2021 - 06:55 PM

Good find, I've been there before where retracing steps can prove to be benefical.

#21 Spud800

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Posted 17 January 2021 - 06:58 PM

That’s electricity for you... always finds the path of least resistance.

#22 Daag44

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Posted 17 January 2021 - 07:02 PM

In the video, now that's how you troubleshoot ignition troubles. Shut the lights and it becomes that much easier to see.

 

Any idea why the plug cracked? I can't say that i like seeing this. I am guessing last year's gas?


Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R P-TEK Electrical Troubleshooting #1 and #2 
800R Turbo
850 Center Oil line for coolant pump melted
850 Main Oil line caught fire #1 and #2
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's and Ronn's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Electrical - Diagnoses of a failed ECM
Electrical - 30A Battery Charging Fuse Socket Diagnoses and Relay
Electrical - Relay Coil Wine
Electrical - Relay Testing
Electrical - Battery Charging Relay Diagnostic 
Electrical - Troubleshooting with BRP video 
Electrical - Solder vs Crimp
Electrical - Diagram for Fanners on page 3
Engine Break-In 
Engine Weight 
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Electric Start troubleshooting
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC eRAVE position code recurring
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
E-TEC Voltage Rectifier Regulator troubleshooting
E-TEC Power Fades are not normal and can be fixed
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 Steering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Longevity - 800R E-TEC 
Mikuni o-ring for carb float assembly - Arctic Cat part# 6505-875 or from Amazon and eBay
Muffler Red Hot
Off-trail riding for flatlanders
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pictures - How to post with the correct orientation
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Power Loss - How to diagnose in the field
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Seafoam for E-TEC injectors
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Spark Plugs cracked
Squish - The limit
Squish - A discussion on head design
Stator and Relay Diagnostic 
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator Removal on page 3
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix

#23 Geezjeff

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Posted 17 January 2021 - 11:18 PM

In the video, now that's how you troubleshoot ignition troubles. Shut the lights and it becomes that much easier to see.

 

Any idea why the plug cracked? I can't say that i like seeing this. I am guessing last year's gas?

 Absolutely no idea. I’ve never seen a cracked plug before, personally.  And previous owner says dealer put these in Jan of 2020.  He also says all non-ethanol gas, but not sure of the vintage of the fuel.  Did the sniff test on it when I bought it and it passed the olfactory mustard.  

 

My first ride out was mid RPMs after warming up on a lake with about 4” of snow.  Nothing crazy, as I went from hard pack (lake trails) and some open riding.  Minnesota is insanely low on snow right now, so nothing deep at all.  I rode maybe 15 miles that day with my 4.5 year old in front of me (so not fast at all).  That is the first time the problem showed it’s face, and it got better for a while after letting it cool down.  The more I think it over, the more I think it is a manufacturing defect on the plugs.  I think they slowly failed, and then finally failed on me this last time and that is why I could see it on the outside.  Either way, I’m hoping this doesn’t happen again.  

 

Because I saw a few others telling a similar tale, I’d just advise them to swap plugs regardless of condition at this point.  There are maybe 3-4 other stories on this forum with similar gremlins, and people had various success figuring it out.  I’ll for sure post again if this fixes it after some real mileage.  



#24 Daag44

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Posted 18 January 2021 - 02:59 AM

I have heard the same story with light to moderate speeds with kids that ended with engine failures. Tag on my own and I am not convinced that this type of riding should be considered full proof. Under 5000 rpm is the range I assume to be the safest, but rarely if ever does anyone ride in the 4000-5000 range.
 
With a two stroke, it isn't really about running an rpm or load that we believe is safe, but rather an engine that is working right, fueled right, good octane and the exhaust valves are working as they should. Obviously we all want the intake reed boots to be in good condition.
 
For the similar tales, we naturally grasp onto situations that appear the same, hence Confirmation Bias. I find this difficult which is why I have learned to start from scratch thinking this is a new situation. I do this from experience of having been wrong too many times. Conversely the fuel issue has become a broken record.


Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R P-TEK Electrical Troubleshooting #1 and #2 
800R Turbo
850 Center Oil line for coolant pump melted
850 Main Oil line caught fire #1 and #2
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's and Ronn's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Electrical - Diagnoses of a failed ECM
Electrical - 30A Battery Charging Fuse Socket Diagnoses and Relay
Electrical - Relay Coil Wine
Electrical - Relay Testing
Electrical - Battery Charging Relay Diagnostic 
Electrical - Troubleshooting with BRP video 
Electrical - Solder vs Crimp
Electrical - Diagram for Fanners on page 3
Engine Break-In 
Engine Weight 
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Electric Start troubleshooting
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC eRAVE position code recurring
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
E-TEC Voltage Rectifier Regulator troubleshooting
E-TEC Power Fades are not normal and can be fixed
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 Steering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Longevity - 800R E-TEC 
Mikuni o-ring for carb float assembly - Arctic Cat part# 6505-875 or from Amazon and eBay
Muffler Red Hot
Off-trail riding for flatlanders
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pictures - How to post with the correct orientation
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Power Loss - How to diagnose in the field
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Seafoam for E-TEC injectors
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Spark Plugs cracked
Squish - The limit
Squish - A discussion on head design
Stator and Relay Diagnostic 
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator Removal on page 3
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix

#25 Geezjeff

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Posted 25 January 2021 - 05:51 PM

Great news, crew: 

 

The new plugs fixed it.  I put another 25 or so miles on since the new plugs were put in and it runs like a champ - good as new.  For sake of clarity, I did put new coils and plug wires in during the process as well, but the plugs were really the issue.  

 

Thanks for all the help on here. I got to hit the new 4-6"s of snow this weekend because of all of your help!  

 

Cheers, 

-Jeff







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