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1995 skidoo mx470 oil leak.


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#1 470skidoomx

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Posted 08 January 2021 - 08:49 AM

I just pulled my sled out yesterday and noticed it had leaked a good 250ml of oil onto the ground. I pulled it inside and found it wasn't leaking oil from any of the lines but instead leaking out of the bottom end underneath the exhaust right beside (or possibly behind) the starter. I cant find exactly where it is leaking but is there any common areas oil can leak out of in that area? Also, if it is a seal that I need to pull the motor apart to fix, would it be worth fixing as it leaked that 250ml over a 10-11 month period.

 

Also, is there any pre season maintenance to the oil injection system like bleeding it or changing the filter?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

 

 

Screenshot_20210108-085254_Video_Player1.jpg

 

sorry for bad picture, i have a few more but it wont let me add them, ill try again later today.


Edited by 470skidoomx, 08 January 2021 - 08:57 AM.


#2 MrGutz

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Posted 08 January 2021 - 10:33 AM

Hey

I've found over the summer oil can leak\be forced out by the changing temps.

This seems to happen on the older sleds\two strokes.

I would bet it could even be from the chaincase too.

Later

GutZ


It's not what you do, It's how you do it.... It's not what you've got, It's how you use it.


#3 470skidoomx

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Posted 08 January 2021 - 08:00 PM

Hey

I've found over the summer oil can leak\be forced out by the changing temps.

This seems to happen on the older sleds\two strokes.

I would bet it could even be from the chaincase too.

Later

GutZ

 

Thanks for the response. That would make sense as pressure could build up in the crank as it heats up and the oil would also be very thin in the heat (considering its already relatively thin in the cold). doubt its from the chain case as its too far away from where the oil is laying and I run gear oil in my chain case so it wouldn't be blue. Also resealed the chain case last year as I had a issue with it leaking after changing it. Good to hear that I probably haven't blown a seal or something stupid.

 

After a new battery, some fuel and fixing a kinked fuel line its running and good to go for the season, now I'm just praying for at least a few more inches of snow.

 

Thanks again!



#4 MrGutz

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Posted 08 January 2021 - 09:07 PM

There is a vent in the chaincase dipstick, when the temp changes, I feel the capillary affect draws out the oil.

But if it's over by the engine and its injector oil, there are several fittings on the case reservoir, oil pump, lines and the plastic oil reservoir.

Usually the lower one on the plastic tank is good place to look.

GutZ 


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#5 jason79

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Posted 08 January 2021 - 11:54 PM

There is a cavity in the center of the engine that holds oil to lube the drive gear for the water pump and rotary intake disk. When the seal fails it leaks out a weap hole behind the water pump. You can replace the seal with the engine in, but it is much easier to remove the engine and do this on the bench.

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#6 turbopete

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Posted 09 January 2021 - 09:46 AM

There is a cavity in the center of the engine that holds oil to lube the drive gear for the water pump and rotary intake disk. When the seal fails it leaks out a weap hole behind the water pump. You can replace the seal with the engine in, but it is much easier to remove the engine and do this on the bench.

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Exactly.  Unless its an absolute ditch banger or on its least legs you may as well fix it. You will need 2 seals ( plus water pump gasket) and step by step is in the manual.  Not a terrible job, just have to be careful when you remove the old seal to not damage the bearing behind. As mentioned, it can be done in the sled. After you remove the exhaust you will see better. 


Edited by turbopete, 09 January 2021 - 09:50 AM.


#7 470skidoomx

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Posted 13 January 2021 - 12:28 PM

I know for a fact that there's nothing leaking out of the oil injection system, nothing from the tank, from any lines or oil pump, it coming out of the water pump weep hole is the best explanation as it right next to it. I really just want to know is if this leak will cause a lean fuel mixture that could cause damage. The leak is very, very slow and I don't think it would effect anything enough to do damage, but what do you think? I know this may sound stupid, but I plan on keeping this sled for a while and ill eventually have to rebuild the motor at one point or another. If this leak wont cause any damage ill just wait until it either leaks a stupid amount of oil and ill have to replace it or the motor goes and I pull it to rebuild it, replacing that seal at the same time. If it only costs me a few dollars in oil a year it doesn't really bother me.

 

I cleaned the belly pan and oil off the motor the other day, I've had it running a bit and let it sit for a few days and so far no oil has come out of it. hopefully it just leaked from sitting for some reason but sealed up when started it, I don't know just a thought.

 

Thanks for the responses!



#8 MrGutz

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Posted 13 January 2021 - 01:44 PM

I know for a fact that there's nothing leaking out of the oil injection system, nothing from the tank, from any lines or oil pump, it coming out of the water pump weep hole is the best explanation as it right next to it. I really just want to know is if this leak will cause a lean fuel mixture that could cause damage. The leak is very, very slow and I don't think it would effect anything enough to do damage, but what do you think? I know this may sound stupid, but I plan on keeping this sled for a while and ill eventually have to rebuild the motor at one point or another. If this leak wont cause any damage ill just wait until it either leaks a stupid amount of oil and ill have to replace it or the motor goes and I pull it to rebuild it, replacing that seal at the same time. If it only costs me a few dollars in oil a year it doesn't really bother me.

 

I cleaned the belly pan and oil off the motor the other day, I've had it running a bit and let it sit for a few days and so far no oil has come out of it. hopefully it just leaked from sitting for some reason but sealed up when started it, I don't know just a thought.

 

Thanks for the responses!

 

Well, it could just slowly leak for the rest of time, but you have a lot going on, on that shaft\seal\pump\etc...

And I've never had a seal get better over time, so my money is on it will get worse... and it will get worse all at once and you wont like it...

I maybe getting overly dramatic.

If the tank level is lower that the reservoir line's outlet and it leaks out enough oil it will cause issues with the Brass gear and crank seals.

This is unlikely. The seal will wear out first most likely.

I think the Seal can be changed with the engine in the sled if that is a concern. There is a YouTube on it.

 

As an aside, I had my 670 backfire and blow out the case half seal, the stuff that goes in between the cases ( grey goo). It blew out right next too the crank res and I thought it was coming out of the weep hole.

After swapping it on the bench I filled the center section with oil and found it was still coming out, but not out of the weep hole.

I drop or two every 15 minutes.

Ended up splitting the cases and resealing it. Saved me from burning down the engine.

Later

GutZ


It's not what you do, It's how you do it.... It's not what you've got, It's how you use it.


#9 396F/A

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Posted 13 January 2021 - 01:55 PM

I am with Gutz, a seal is not likely gonna fix its self  :mellow:  But it likely will not hurt anything to run as is, might last for some time ????, might last one ride ??? BUT, if you see the oil in the oil tank start to look milky or you see oil in the antifreeze tank, you DO NEED to fix it !!


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#10 David H

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Posted 13 January 2021 - 02:11 PM

Agree with above but I say fly it and watch it for the season.  You'll be fine.  Do your rebuild this summer.


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#11 470skidoomx

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Posted 13 January 2021 - 04:43 PM

Pulling the engine is one of my concerns, don't really want to spend too much time messing around with it. I know what you guys are saying but I may just take the risk and run it (like I have for the last probably 20kms).

Ill at least look into it, what do I need to look up to find a YouTube video on it?

If i do decide just to run it ill make sure to keep an eye on my fluids (more than I already do).

Mr.Gutz, one thing I am a little confused about that you said is "If the tank level is lower that the reservoir line's outlet and it leaks out enough oil it will cause issues with the Brass gear and crank seals. This is unlikely. The seal will wear out first most likely." I don't really understand this as how is it possible to have the reservoir level lower than the outlet line as the reservoir itself if much higher than the engine so it would run out of it before it got too low, and I don't really understand what the seal wearing out has to do with that... Maybe I just need a look at the diagram, I'm not the most familiar with the layout and how theses oil injected 2 strokes actually work.

I'm guessing the crank reservoir is the thing that Jason79 was talking about holding oil for the drive gears and such, and that's where the seal is? wouldn't that be inside the motor, or can I take the water pump out and replace it that way (which I'm guessing you've been talking about this whole time). Ill need to dig into my motor to make sure it is in fact coming out of the weep hole before I even consider getting into anything.



#12 MrGutz

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Posted 13 January 2021 - 06:19 PM

Pump Seal Replace Video

 

I'll see if I have some pics.

You have the tank that you fill with oil and the one Inside the engine.

On the one you fill there are 3 lines, 2 on the side and one on the bottom.

The lower one on the side of the Oil Tank, connects to the lower one on the Case.

The tank feeds the pump from the very bottom one.

So you still have enough oil to run the sled even if new oil is not sent to the case reservoir.

This is Ok, unless the oil in the case is leaking out and not refilling.

GutZ 


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#13 MrGutz

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Posted 13 January 2021 - 06:30 PM

Does this help

 

Oil-Res-Seal.jpg

 

GutZ


It's not what you do, It's how you do it.... It's not what you've got, It's how you use it.


#14 470skidoomx

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Posted 13 January 2021 - 08:21 PM

let me shorten that up, that was wayyyy too long after looking at again. Ok, that makes everything much clearer now. now from what I understand is that if a seal on either of the sides leaks it will drain out of the weep hole instead of into the other side. My sled is leaking out of the oil side, but if the coolant side starts to leak I could be in a lot of trouble, So its a risk. So since the oil is leaking out of my in engine reservoir, if I run oil lower than the 2nd lowest oil line I could damage something due to the lack of oil, so if I keep a constant supply of oil to it it wont run out of oil. After watching that video, I think ill do it but if we do get snow in the meantime ill take the risk and just make sure the oil is topped up above the lower side oil line. Didn't know that's what those lines on the side of the oil tank were for, thought they were oil sensors, that's really interesting to me. I'm guessing the top oil line is for the rotary intake disc as it only needs a bit of oil to keep lubricated?

This makes me wonder what happens to the people who mix their own fuel, it needs oil to the engine reservoir and rotary disc but mixing it yourself would be getting rid of all that and possibly cause damage right?

I cant get a good look at where the oil is exactly coming from as my fancy electric start is in the way of the pump but it really looks like its coming from there, any idea where the weep hole comes out?

Guess skidoo wont sell me parts for my year of sled, one year too old I guess. Any idea where I could find any?

 

Thanks again, I really appreciate all of this and sorry for asking more and more questions every time...


Edited by 470skidoomx, 14 January 2021 - 05:34 PM.





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