Electric Snowmobiles - Page 2 - Sledding - General Discussion - DOOTalk Forums

Jump to content

 






Photo

Electric Snowmobiles

How far off are they?

  • Please log in to reply
45 replies to this topic

#16 matejkav

matejkav

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 405 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Manitoba, Canada
  • Sled:Ski-Doo 2016 Expedition Sport 600 ACE

Posted 25 October 2020 - 01:17 PM



Great post.

Battery tech is improving at an accelerated rate.
I put a deposit down on the new EV pickup truck from Workhorse (Endurace), which has best tested in cold, snow and ice.
Should be available first quarter 2021.

I could not find any info on doo/electric sleds when I did a google search


That's a nice looking truck. I haven't seen those yet. Here's a short video:

Snow west magazine also has one.

You'll find articles on other brp electric products. https://www.google.c...ic-go-kart/amp/

The fact that I haven't seen a BRP snowmobile prototype means they will be conservative with that market, unless they are planning a surprise release in the future. That part is a bit disappointing to me since I'm not very interested in their other prototypes. That being said if I was a city dweller I'd get more interested. BRP doing an electric snowmobile would be like Ford making a commitment to going electric. It would change the market. Imagine if one of the best-selling vehicles (F150) was suddenly electric. For some people it would be bad, not me (despite the fact that I hope to drive my 97' forever)

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

#17 scott c

scott c

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 397 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oregon
  • Interests:Sledding
  • Sled:2005 800 Gade/1996 mxz 583/670HO

Posted 25 October 2020 - 03:54 PM

What gets me is this idea that somehow electrical is green or clean. Geez people wake up, look into the manufacturing process to make the current battery's. Its not clean, and destroys the lives of third world populations forced to mine the materials and make them. What comes out of the ground to make the battery's is limited, fossil fuels are still being created. There are better things than batteries, and there are power technologies that could be utilized but the big corporations think that would be the end of there money, so they lock up the knowledge. It's the life cycle of the product, from manufacture to disposel. I have heard it said a Hummer is overall cleaner than and electric car over it's life time.



#18 Toecutter

Toecutter

    "The Podiatrist"

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3629 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:ohio
  • Interests:trail riding, golf, learning bout' crap I don't know, WW2 history (Thanks vets !)
  • Sled:2016 blizzard 600 etec

Posted 25 October 2020 - 04:06 PM

That's a nice looking truck. I haven't seen those yet. Here's a short video:

Snow west magazine also has one.

You'll find articles on other brp electric products. https://www.google.c...ic-go-kart/amp/

The fact that I haven't seen a BRP snowmobile prototype means they will be conservative with that market, unless they are planning a surprise release in the future. That part is a bit disappointing to me since I'm not very interested in their other prototypes. That being said if I was a city dweller I'd get more interested. BRP doing an electric snowmobile would be like Ford making a commitment to going electric. It would change the market. Imagine if one of the best-selling vehicles (F150) was suddenly electric. For some people it would be bad, not me (despite the fact that I hope to drive my 97' forever)

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk


Thanks for that vid.....I was always using ‘skidoo’ in my search for EV info....I agree with you on the items they presented as not being very interested in, but I can certainly see the market for them in urban areas....a GREAT fit. I think doo will have some surprises coming soon for snowmobiles.....before Polaris.

#19 FastD00

FastD00

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3448 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Buffalo Minnesota
  • Sled:2000 MXZ 600SB with some engine mods 😈

Posted 25 October 2020 - 09:17 PM

You can never beat the sound of braapppppppp

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

#20 Mill

Mill

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 957 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Sled:2006 Rev 800

Posted 25 October 2020 - 10:06 PM

Electric, count me out me. You guys can enjoy your total max best case scenario 140 km ride into the bush and done, dead battery. No worries just pull out your Honda generator from the linq sleigh and charge it back up for the next 5 hrs. Start a fire and roast some marshmallows while I ride. Bye.

Oh and when you finally make it to the gas er electric station, sorry back of line bud. Don't worry just a 3 hr wait to top up on the juice. Yes that's only 10 sleds in line at 20 mins each, over 3 hrs wait. Oh but but they can just get more charging stations you say. Do you think these small mom pop gas stations will suddenly win the lotto just to dump it into having 100 quick charge stations If even possible in the first place, which it won't be.

What about the motels, hundreds of sleds and vehicles need to be plugged in all night. Also not happening.

One word infrastructure.

Oh and in case some haven't noticed there is no infrastructure in the bush. It's hard enough to find gas stations right now during long semi remote ride. c64e026b66a078131f87bbe79e17dc92.jpg

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

#21 BadAssFinn

BadAssFinn

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 102 posts

Posted 26 October 2020 - 12:12 AM

They are already here....not the best range limit yet nor crazy performance but they are coming and probably will make huge advances in short time. Im thinking Tesla’s of sledding. Will take a number of years to become accepted but you will see them on the trails I’m sure. 
 

check them out here.   https://taigamotors.ca/snowmobiles/

 

I would not hold your breathe, while waiting for these sleds to be in full production. Taiga is a tech company. Shows lots of prototypes and renderings. They that way try to get some funding and keep that hype going on. Same thing like in many kickstarter projects, that never get to see the daylight in the end. 



#22 Daag44

Daag44

    Advanced Member

  • DOOCrew
  • 25681 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Shore, Quebec
  • Interests:1973 Olympic
  • Sled:2007 1000 SDI

Posted 26 October 2020 - 06:18 AM

Kite powered generator storing into a 25 kWh flywheel that super charges a sled.

 

 


Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R Turbo?
850 Cente Oil line for coolant pump melted
850 Main Oil line caught fire #1 and #2
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Diagnoses
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Electric Start troubleshooting
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
E-TEC Voltage Rectifier Regulator troubleshooting
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 Steering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pictures - How to post with the correct orientation
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Power Loss - How to diagnose in the field
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Seafoam for E-TEC injectors
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#23 613rev

613rev

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1415 posts
  • Sled:Rev800HO

Posted 26 October 2020 - 08:06 AM

My neighbour has 2 Tesla’s. They are fairly well off, living on the waterfront and being empty nesters.both have good jobs. Those two Tesla’s cost around $140k beaver bucks. He swells with pride when he talks about zero emissions and the great rebate he got from the government, about $25,000 roughly. But he doesn’t get the whole picture at all. Some of that rebate came from taxes on people that can barely afford food and hydro, let alone an new car. A diesel powered car carrier delivered it to him, diesel powered equipment mined the materials and powered the factory to build it. Diesel powered equipment builds all the infrastructure.The batteries in it used about 200,000 litres of water to make them, they’re charging system uses fossil fuels to produce the power, the range on them in good weather will only get them to Toronto, and then they will sat in a restaurant while it charged up enough to get to there friends place to give it a full charge. With the heat and defrost on they couldn’t get there. The worst part is that women and children and the most vulnerable in the world are mining,often 15 hours a day. The water table is being destroyed in some South American countries forever to make batteries. And then I see these people burning wood to heat there house. You know, the ambiance and comfort. And because of they’re astronomical hydro bills likely. The elephant in the room is where the country is going to get the hydro power to electrify our society. Energy is like horsepower, there is no free lunch. It will make the tar sands look like a pimple.

#24 Newfiebullett

Newfiebullett

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3146 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Labrador
  • Interests:Sleds, bikes, birds and sometimes fishing.
  • Sled:Expedition SWT

Posted 26 October 2020 - 08:19 AM

The biggest obstacles to electric sleds and UTV's will be charging times and charging networks. It will take gobs of money to set up sufficient charging stations at all these motels, bars, filling stations and restaurants and direct enough current into these areas to run these charging stations. Riders will also not be content with waiting several hours or more for a charge as opposed to filling up the gas tank within minutes. So, the easy part will be producing the electric rec vehicles. The hard part will be setting up the infrastructure to adequately run (charge) these vehicles and obtaining an acceptable distance range. At 68 years of age, I seriously doubt I will ever own an electric rec vehicle or car for that matter. Even electric will eventually be superseded by other forms of propulsion. Can't imagine running a large airliner on electric. Bottomline, we are probably looking at a minimum of 10-20 years, maybe more, for any major changes especially in the more remote areas of the country.

That is true for the touring market in central North America, but not everyone snowmobiles like that.

 

Where I live, the VAST majority of snowmobiliers use their sleds to go back and forth to their cabin, get some firewood, short trips close to home. For most people here, an electric sled would be ideal. Even if the range didn't allow them to complete a return trip (which for most wouldn't be an issue) there would be plenty of time to charge up at the cabin overnight. That might be an issue for larger families or groups trying to charge multiple sleds on one generator, but for the majority of users, I don't think it would be an issue. 

 

That said, I think many people would be reluctant to make the switch to electric, even if they only ever made short trips. "Range anxiety" is a real thing, and the idea that your batteries might go dead and you'd have no way to charge them would scare many people off. It will take time for electric snowmobiles to become accepted, even AFTER the technology has made them a viable choice. 

 

No more rumors. BRP made it clear before Polaris that they intend to go electric. Just Google it. There's also a couple electric sleds out there that when examined clearly use BRP parts.

I don't know what the average sledder does in a day for miles, but the Taiga isn't far off from what a lot of people I know do. As long as Taiga's stated range is true it's already perfect for the mountains. I think we are a lot closer than we think to the ideal electric sled. I don't think technology is what's holding the product back. It's consumer doubt. Cost might be an issue at first, but this is how it always goes with new tech. As assembly lines retool and supply industries adjust to new demand costs should level out. I may be wrong with this one. I am no expert, but when you look at past shifts in technology and industry this is kind of what happens all the time...

I'm going to run my gas engine sleds into the ground, but I'm watching with great anticipation. Electric sleds will be great for developing battery technology. Batteries and cold weather don't mix. Necessity drives innovation.

Good point, I didn't even think about mountain riders. There are plenty of people who return to their start location at the end of every ride, whether that be their home, their truck, their cabin or their hotel. Electric snowmobiles won't be able to fulfill th needs of EVERY snowmobilier out there, but they will meet the requirements of a great many, and sooner than we might think.



#25 Mill

Mill

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 957 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Sled:2006 Rev 800

Posted 26 October 2020 - 08:38 AM

Kite powered generator storing into a 25 kWh flywheel that super charges a sled.


Cool for sure but a horrible idea, the tech to make it happen is the only important part. After 13 yrs and millions upon millions invested it folded faster then a cheap suit.

Electric vehs only account for 2.5 precent of total new veh sales in the USA. I'm not a mathematics professor but that really sucks.

It took well over a hundred years for the ice first automobiles to start crawling around.

Well it won't take that long for Ev's as our governments are pouring (giving) hundreds of millions to companies to speed up the process it will be a long road.

I think California should be the test bed as they are all things green. Let the government buy everyone an ev. Plug them them boys and watch the electrical system crash. Don't worry you can plug in on Thursdays after the blackout revolves to the other end of the neighborhood.

Yes it will happen, when? Same time as when hoverboards are main stream.

I'm not against Ev's but let's be realistic. Heck I've been waiting for a cost effective ev for commuting. Still waiting and waiting. Every ev that can go the distance when released is double the price as a ice automobile. Look at the new GMC hummer over 100k. darn I can buy gas forever and still won't make up the difference between that ev and a ice auto.

I just hope they can give me a cost effective on road ev vehicle in the near future. That's the big auto manufacturers push. Ev Powersports is last on my list, actually not even on it. The tech will trickle down after mainstream on road Ev's.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

#26 Mill

Mill

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 957 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Sled:2006 Rev 800

Posted 26 October 2020 - 08:44 AM

That is true for the touring market in central North America, but not everyone snowmobiles like that.

Where I live, the VAST majority of snowmobiliers use their sleds to go back and forth to their cabin, get some firewood, short trips close to home. For most people here, an electric sled would be ideal. Even if the range didn't allow them to complete a return trip (which for most wouldn't be an issue) there would be plenty of time to charge up at the cabin overnight. That might be an issue for larger families or groups trying to charge multiple sleds on one generator, but for the majority of users, I don't think it would be an issue.

That said, I think many people would be reluctant to make the switch to electric, even if they only ever made short trips. "Range anxiety" is a real thing, and the idea that your batteries might go dead and you'd have no way to charge them would scare many people off. It will take time for electric snowmobiles to become accepted, even AFTER the technology has made them a viable choice.

Good point, I didn't even think about mountain riders. There are plenty of people who return to their start location at the end of every ride, whether that be their home, their truck, their cabin or their hotel. Electric snowmobiles won't be able to fulfill th needs of EVERY snowmobilier out there, but they will meet the requirements of a great many, and sooner than we might think.

Let's back that up a bit.

So they will cruise around on their green machines becoming one with nature so peaceful and quiet. Maybe even feed a deer. Then when they get to their cabin they will fire up a few gas powered generators to charge the green machines.

Think about that.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

#27 613rev

613rev

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1415 posts
  • Sled:Rev800HO

Posted 26 October 2020 - 08:53 AM

The average snowmobile’s fuel tank holds over a million btu’s of heat energy. You can replace it in 30 seconds. It’s light, 7 pounds per 125,000 btu’s. The refuelling infrastructure is in place and has been for a century. It can be restocked by a road vehicle, not 200 miles of conductor with a massive transmission loss. The gas powered generators in Ontario can lose 80% when I turn on my lights. E racing? That’s comical, massive diesel powered generators recharging the batteries in between “no emission” races. Like said, let California and Quebec try it. Life in the dark 2 days a week might work in Cali, but way to cold in Quebec.

#28 Daag44

Daag44

    Advanced Member

  • DOOCrew
  • 25681 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Shore, Quebec
  • Interests:1973 Olympic
  • Sled:2007 1000 SDI

Posted 26 October 2020 - 09:32 AM

Foil kites are used to generate power and help propel cargo ships. Simpler and more efficient than wind turbines.


Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R Turbo?
850 Cente Oil line for coolant pump melted
850 Main Oil line caught fire #1 and #2
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Diagnoses
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Electric Start troubleshooting
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
E-TEC Voltage Rectifier Regulator troubleshooting
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 Steering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pictures - How to post with the correct orientation
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Power Loss - How to diagnose in the field
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Seafoam for E-TEC injectors
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#29 GeezerGlide

GeezerGlide

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 191 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Western New York
  • Sled:2016 Enduro 1200

Posted 26 October 2020 - 09:35 AM

Great points made 613rev.



#30 Newfiebullett

Newfiebullett

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3146 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Labrador
  • Interests:Sleds, bikes, birds and sometimes fishing.
  • Sled:Expedition SWT

Posted 26 October 2020 - 09:38 AM

Let's back that up a bit.

So they will cruise around on their green machines becoming one with nature so peaceful and quiet. Maybe even feed a deer. Then when they get to their cabin they will fire up a few gas powered generators to charge the green machines.

Think about that.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

There are no deer here, we're too far north. And no one said anything about being green. It would make sense from an ease and cost of use perspective, not because people want to be green. If we have to rely on peoples desire to be green for them to switch to electic vehicles, it will never happen. They will switch when it's cost effective to do so. 

 

Stop trying to make this political. It's a thread about the possibility (or inevitibility) of electric snowmobiles. Nothing to do with feeding deer or becoming one with nature. 






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users