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Cat and Yamaha


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#1 fred1200

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Posted 16 October 2020 - 12:33 PM

Apparently these sleds cannot be sold in Canada because of copyright infringements



#2 BRP SKI DOG

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Posted 16 October 2020 - 01:08 PM

That's what i heard for cat  and figures it would be yamaha too even if u pre ordered



#3 613rev

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Posted 16 October 2020 - 01:24 PM

It’s sad to say, but it looks like BRP, the Quebec government and a bit of help from Ottawa are making a concerted effort to disable the competition. Last week I saw an ad on Kijiji for a Cat turbo by the local “rural village” Cat dealer. I was there at opening time in the morning to buy it, and they seemed surprised. The ad was rolled over by mistake by kijiji. The owner said he couldn’t sell any trade in’s because of the court hold on the lawsuit. So he is storing 21 sleds for free because he can’t deliver the new ones and will have to give them back,And he can’t sell several of new stock that he ordered. It’s a family business, 25 years with about 8 to 10 long term employees.Known then for years, they’re right on the trail and have been big on promoting the sport for a few decades. He said first covid and now this. He said the hearing is in November, but it’s in Quebec and in French. He isn’t holding up much hope, and he can’t survive selling chainsaws and yard equipment. Apparently the US ordered against brp on this subject, but the judge in Quebec ruled for them. Corruption? Who knows. Brp has taken probably a billion dollars in taxpayer subsides since I’ve been paying taxes. I believe in free enterprise and buying Canadian and American, but I won’t be told what’s available to me to ride by any government. That’s the story I see.

#4 mxz_x_800

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Posted 16 October 2020 - 01:28 PM

This doesn’t affect Yamaha , only cat

#5 mxz_x_800

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Posted 16 October 2020 - 01:36 PM

Update 2020/06/17: The official statement from Yamaha Motor Canada: ... The decision made by the Canadian Federal Court in this matter has no impact on Yamaha and our snowmobiles. The ruling does not affect our ability to sell any model year Yamaha branded snowmobiles in Canada, the USA or internationally.”Jun 15, 2020

#6 stealth bomber

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Posted 16 October 2020 - 02:48 PM

Pretty stupid. Punish the parent company if there was infringement, but don’t make the dealer owners suffer because of it. They didn’t do anything wrong.

#7 Flying_Dutchman

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Posted 16 October 2020 - 02:52 PM

Let's be clear on the issue and not the fallout.  Initially Cat infringed on BRP's design.  They knowingly stole it and used it. They took a huge risk and got caught. Bottom Line.

Technology gets copied from manufacturer to manufacturer but changed enough to not create and infringement on a design patent. In other cases, the technology is licensed to another manufacturer for a fee. Cat could of done either of these options, but obviously didn't hence the courts decision in favour of BRP.  Not sure if Cat has started an appeal process. If they haven't.... that says something also.



#8 613rev

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Posted 16 October 2020 - 04:49 PM

^^^^Yes. Read between the lines,a US court ruled in Cats favour. Brp may be in the right here, but taking out a small market in Canada may hurt them badly later. Our countries are embroiled in trade disagreements with each other, and other nations all the time. Textron employs a lot of US workers and uses a lot of US products. A US court could rule against Brp and do the same thing to them in retaliation. That’s a much bigger market than Cat in Canada. Don’t think so? 37 years ago Ronald Reagan levelled a tariff on Honda and I think other manufacturers on “over 700 cc motorcycles. The big company it was supposed to help? Harley Davidson.Honda just made 700’s and kept marketing in north America. Not the same, but US trade commissions rule for the US, not another country.

#9 DooDown87

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Posted 16 October 2020 - 05:38 PM

It doesn’t make any legal sense to not allow cat, but allow Yamaha to sell. They are the exact same product made in the exact same facility.

If that is truely the case, then Cat should just take every single Arctic cat they have to left sell and throw Yamaha stickers on it and work the financial part out between themselves and yamaha.

#10 Brad460

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Posted 16 October 2020 - 06:38 PM

The decision is clearly politically motivated to protect/enhance Doo. Doo should be banned from selling sleds in the USA..

Yamaha traded themselves out of this lawsuit...Over some Yamaha patents that Doo infringed...(watercraft related).

#11 dpach

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Posted 16 October 2020 - 09:09 PM

I find it interesting that it took a Canadian court, a Quebec court, to make this decision, and not only stop all sales, but also penalize Cat $135 per sled sold since 2008. That is the exact same amount a US court forced BRP to pay Cat for watercraft technology BRP copied years ago. Cat already won this case in the US so BRP had to to back to a local court to get a favourable decision. I find it odd that the appeal court case is allowed to also be in Quebec.

Trump should just put a tariff on all BRP products sold in the US and this would likely go away pretty quick.

I find it funny that all sleds now use a basic pyramidal front platform that are similar in concept and design, yet Doo has no problem with Poo using it.

The fact that Yami isn’t included in the lawsuit means this wasn’t just about the platform copying by Cat, but also to get some of the money back they had to pay Cat over the years, especially when the $135 per sled sold is identical to the amount BRP had to pay cat for every watercraft sold for many years.

But Cat can survive for one more year on US sales (unfortunately many dealers may not survive) until the patent has expired and then sell all the 2022’s they want.

#12 mxz_x_800

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Posted 16 October 2020 - 10:09 PM

I’m trying to find the article but what it said was that Polaris and Yamaha paid brp to use patent design. When I find it I’ll post it

#13 turbopete

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Posted 16 October 2020 - 11:20 PM

Kind of a low blow to an already struggling company, any way you look at it completion is a healthy thing and helps keep everyone trying to produce the best product and not get lazy.  I can agree on the tit for tat $135, but don’t think it is right to not be able to sell those sleds in Canada when Yamaha can sell theirs. Unnecessary and a dangerous game, telling people what they can and can’t buy. Nobody wins.



#14 Mike-337

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Posted 17 October 2020 - 12:37 AM

It doesn’t make any legal sense to not allow cat, but allow Yamaha to sell. They are the exact same product made in the exact same facility.
If that is truely the case, then Cat should just take every single Arctic cat they have to left sell and throw Yamaha stickers on it and work the financial part out between themselves and yamaha.

Made in the same facility? Seriously? I did not know that. That shocks me.
The older i get, the faster i was.

#15 awful knawful

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Posted 17 October 2020 - 06:43 AM

So cat got caught, the law says cat is wrong, and it's brps fault?

Brp is a quebec company, so why wouldn't they fight the case in their own province?

Oh the conspiracy theories.




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