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#1 GeneralIke

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Posted 22 September 2020 - 08:29 PM

2010 Renegade 600 Etec Backcountry

 

For the past several years, the electric start has not worked on my sled.  Not generally a big deal as I just use the recoil.  My daughter is now riding this sled and has a difficult time with the pull start and I figure its time to get it fixed.  Hoping you guys can point me in right direction for next steps in troubleshooting.

 

When I press the start button (RER), nothing happens.  Thought it might be bad battery.  Tests at 12.76v. Battery will start sled fine (see tests below).

 

Looked at ground wires near the battery tray.  Disconnected and reconnected/tightened both.  Connections look good.

 

Both fuses 5A and 30A above battery are good and receive 12.76v on both sides of the fuses.

 

Next step was to troubleshoot the starter solenoid/relay. When I bypass the solenoid, the sled starts right away.  I replaced the solenoid but still have the issue.  (After the fact I bench tested both solenoids and they test good.  Lesson learned - probably should have done more testing before jumping to the conclusion that the part was bad.)

 

There are two other posts on the starter solenoid/relay.  When I press the start button only 3.7v are delivered to the wire on the top post.  I assume this should be ~12v in order to engage the relay.  I did test applying 12v to the top post and sled started as expected.

 

So my question - where should I focus my troubleshooting next?  The start (RER) switch?  Anything else that would cause that low of voltage to the solenoid?  Hoping to avoid too much disassembly if there is something easy to check.  (Note that the RER switch will engage reverse fine when the sled is running).

 

Appreciate the help!

 

 



#2 TheBearAk

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Posted 23 September 2020 - 12:53 PM

How about putting a jumper on the battery and make sure the battery still has enough umph to turn a starter.

 

It sounds like a load pulls the battery down, which is common.



#3 GeneralIke

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Posted 23 September 2020 - 07:56 PM

The battery will turn over the starter and start the sled quickly. Issue is getting the solenoid to engage. I *think* the issue is the voltage from the start button to the solenoid. Only 3.7v is making it to the top post on the solenoid.

Does anyone have a wiring diagram of the circuit that runs from battery to start button to solenoid? Or familiar enough to let me know if there are potential issues? I’ll probably be digging in further this weekend when I have some time to try to trace the wiring.

#4 Daag44

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Posted 23 September 2020 - 09:08 PM

I am impressed with how much further the diagnoses is reaching.

Voltage measurements is a measurement that is easy to take. The way I am seeing it, you are halfway there.

Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R P-TEK Electrical Troubleshooting #1 and #2 
800R Turbo
850 Center Oil line for coolant pump melted
850 Main Oil line caught fire #1 and #2
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's and Ronn's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
Crankshaft runout - maximum allowable specs 
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Electrical - ECM drivers for Ignition Coils and E-TEC injectors 
Electrical - Diagnoses of a failed ECM
Electrical - 30A Battery Charging Fuse Socket Diagnoses and Relay
Electrical - Relay Coil Wine
Electrical - Relay Testing
Electrical - Battery Charging Relay Diagnostic 
Electrical - Troubleshooting with BRP video 
Electrical - Solder vs Crimp
Electrical - Diagram for Fanners on page 3
Engine Break-In 
Engine Weight 
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Electric Start troubleshooting
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC eRAVE position code recurring
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
E-TEC Voltage Rectifier Regulator troubleshooting
E-TEC Power Fades are not normal and can be fixed
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 Steering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Longevity - 800R E-TEC 
Mikuni o-ring for carb float assembly - Arctic Cat part# 6505-875 or from Amazon and eBay
Muffler Red Hot
Off-trail riding for flatlanders
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pictures - How to post with the correct orientation
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Power Loss - How to diagnose in the field
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Seafoam for E-TEC injectors
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Spark Plugs cracked
Squish - The limit
Squish - A discussion on head design
Stator and Relay Diagnostic 
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator Removal on page 3
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#5 Daag44

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Posted 23 September 2020 - 09:17 PM

By the way, the Start/RER button is a known issue.

 

Bypass the switch using a jumper wire from the battery positive to the upper terminal of the solenoid relay signal wire.

 

I believe you have already tested for voltage drop between the battery, 30A and 5A fuse, and did a jumper test.

 

So if it the jumper works, then there is a problem with a voltage drop in the Start/RER switch circuit.


Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R P-TEK Electrical Troubleshooting #1 and #2 
800R Turbo
850 Center Oil line for coolant pump melted
850 Main Oil line caught fire #1 and #2
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's and Ronn's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
Crankshaft runout - maximum allowable specs 
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Electrical - ECM drivers for Ignition Coils and E-TEC injectors 
Electrical - Diagnoses of a failed ECM
Electrical - 30A Battery Charging Fuse Socket Diagnoses and Relay
Electrical - Relay Coil Wine
Electrical - Relay Testing
Electrical - Battery Charging Relay Diagnostic 
Electrical - Troubleshooting with BRP video 
Electrical - Solder vs Crimp
Electrical - Diagram for Fanners on page 3
Engine Break-In 
Engine Weight 
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Electric Start troubleshooting
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC eRAVE position code recurring
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
E-TEC Voltage Rectifier Regulator troubleshooting
E-TEC Power Fades are not normal and can be fixed
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 Steering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Longevity - 800R E-TEC 
Mikuni o-ring for carb float assembly - Arctic Cat part# 6505-875 or from Amazon and eBay
Muffler Red Hot
Off-trail riding for flatlanders
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pictures - How to post with the correct orientation
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Power Loss - How to diagnose in the field
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Seafoam for E-TEC injectors
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Spark Plugs cracked
Squish - The limit
Squish - A discussion on head design
Stator and Relay Diagnostic 
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator Removal on page 3
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#6 Daag44

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Posted 23 September 2020 - 09:21 PM

<Only 3.7v is making it to the top post on the solenoid.>

 

This is the part I like reading. I think it needs roughly 6 volts for the solenoid to engage.


Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R P-TEK Electrical Troubleshooting #1 and #2 
800R Turbo
850 Center Oil line for coolant pump melted
850 Main Oil line caught fire #1 and #2
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's and Ronn's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
Crankshaft runout - maximum allowable specs 
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Electrical - ECM drivers for Ignition Coils and E-TEC injectors 
Electrical - Diagnoses of a failed ECM
Electrical - 30A Battery Charging Fuse Socket Diagnoses and Relay
Electrical - Relay Coil Wine
Electrical - Relay Testing
Electrical - Battery Charging Relay Diagnostic 
Electrical - Troubleshooting with BRP video 
Electrical - Solder vs Crimp
Electrical - Diagram for Fanners on page 3
Engine Break-In 
Engine Weight 
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Electric Start troubleshooting
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC eRAVE position code recurring
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
E-TEC Voltage Rectifier Regulator troubleshooting
E-TEC Power Fades are not normal and can be fixed
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 Steering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Longevity - 800R E-TEC 
Mikuni o-ring for carb float assembly - Arctic Cat part# 6505-875 or from Amazon and eBay
Muffler Red Hot
Off-trail riding for flatlanders
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pictures - How to post with the correct orientation
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Power Loss - How to diagnose in the field
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Seafoam for E-TEC injectors
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Spark Plugs cracked
Squish - The limit
Squish - A discussion on head design
Stator and Relay Diagnostic 
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator Removal on page 3
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#7 TrevorG1991

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Posted 24 September 2020 - 03:12 AM

I had starter issues too on my 09 renegade. I checked fuses an everything was fine. My issue was a black relay that u plug into the wire harness. Worked fine for me ever since. When i get home il find the exact 1 with poctures. Hope it works for u

Edited by TrevorG1991, 25 September 2020 - 06:15 AM.


#8 TrevorG1991

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Posted 24 September 2020 - 03:39 AM

Ok so my issue was a 5 pole 30 amp relay. Little black square on the wire harness by the battery. It was only $13.00 where i bought it. Luckily it was only this an saved me a lot of money an grief cause thats a cheep fix. Might fix it for u or could b something else, cheaper or more expensive. Hope this helps

#9 Minnesota FreeRide

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Posted 24 September 2020 - 06:47 AM

I'm with Daag44 and need to figure out why only 3.7 volts is getting down to the solenoid.

 

Your jumper test tells us many things, battery has enough power to spin starter, those wires and connections are all good enough and the ground controlled by the ECM is good. (That ground "goes away" once the ECM "sees" the engine running, that is how when you press the start/rev button while running, you only get reverse not start. You don't want "both" trust me. . .)

 

One might get the notion to just "add" a start button but remember if someone get "confused" any presses that when engine is already running you will mesh the starter into the moving flywheel ring gear and it won't be good. (Not near as bad as getting start while engine is attempting reverse as I said above but still not "good")

 

Reverse likely work on the 3.7 volts as the ECM only needs a "signal" you want reverse unlike "start" needing enough power in the winding field to "move" the solenoid.

 

Switch or path to or from it would be where my time and money goes. . .(Please be sure to post what you find and good luck!!!)


Think Snow,

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Frost 083
 

 

 

 


#10 GeneralIke

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Posted 24 September 2020 - 08:01 AM

Thanks all for the suggestions.  Seems like next step will be tracing the circuit to/from the start/RER button.  I'll dive deeper this weekend and let you know what I find!



#11 skidoo6002018

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Posted 24 September 2020 - 10:43 AM

Try replacing the relay. If you have another skidoo sled take the relay from the other ( if the same) and try it. My relay was bad also

#12 TrevorG1991

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Posted 25 September 2020 - 06:14 AM

skidoo6002018... thats what i did. I have 2 xp sleds so i just took parts from the sled that worked an solved my issue. Mine was the faulty relay also

#13 Minnesota FreeRide

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Posted 25 September 2020 - 07:37 AM

I have not seen the wire diagram for an 08, or 09. I'm thinking the OP 10 Etec would be "close" to a 2012 Etec, from memory I do not recall a "relay" in the start/rev button path? (Charging circuit yes, but OP is not a dead battery issue.)

 

OP already changed the solenoid and knows there is only 3.7 volts where it should be 12.5. Your stating this "relay" feeds power to the start/rev switch? (I don't recall that part, my issue was "extra ground point" before the ECM allowing Start and Rev at the same time.) 


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Ride Right.

Frost 083
 

 

 

 


#14 Skandic Wide Track

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Posted 25 September 2020 - 08:43 AM

Not a hijack but in the same boat. 2014 gsx 800, new battery, new solenoid but no start. This gives me ideas for testing so thanks for that! Also, this would be a great time for this sled to have a recoil.

#15 GeneralIke

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Posted 08 October 2020 - 12:51 PM

Took me a while to get back to the project.  I was able to take all the plastic off and do some more testing.  They certainly don't make it easy to get to the wiring harness! 

 

Turns out the switch was bad.  I hoped to disassemble the switch and try to repair, but the plastic was very brittle and decided to just replace the entire switch.  That solved the problem.  12.76v delivered to the solenoid.

 

Now back to reassembly...






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