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#1 Expeditionxu

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Posted 22 August 2020 - 09:59 PM

I am in need of a new battery for the sled . I see niche makes a battery equivalent spec as yuasa. Any one here comment on their experience with quality . They are 40 bucks cheaper . Thanks

#2 Daag44

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Posted 23 August 2020 - 01:56 AM

That's the first time I hear of this brand. There isn't many manufacturers of Powersport batteries. Like many other brands it could even be made by Yuasa. It doesn't really matter at 15F, but it can become a real problem at -15F if the battery isn't in good health or not strong enough to pull its weight in cold weather.

First thing imo is to make sure the sled has a pull start.

These are things that I consider for a new battery:

1. If shipped factory activated, it should show 13.0+ Vdc.
2. If shipped without acid, follow the instructions to fill and wait before charging, then use an adequate smart charger.
3. Re-charge every 3 months at the longest. More frequent is better.
4. If it doesn't hold near 13 Vdc for at least a couple of weeks after a fresh charge, consider it a bargain battery.
5. 12.8 Vdc is good, but not great. It is still ok for a new battery, and if so consider it a bargain.

6. Older batteries may only hold 12.7 if not 12.6

7. If lower, then consider desulfasion by discharging to ~11.0 Vdc under high load with a battery load tester (those with a 100A heating element), then recharge using a smart charger. Repeat until it reasonably stops rising in cranking amps. And yes I have done so. It's nothing magical either. If the battery has burnt cells for whatever reason like having been frozen while deeply discharged, there isn't anything that is going to save it, no even the fancy tricks. But if it is only sulfated from extended discharge like from March to November with no recharge, then yes it can be rejuvenated to an acceptable level. A brand new battery that has been left to discharge to 12.3 Vdc will take much less effort than an older/worn battery that will never reach par.

 

Best bang for the buck performance in Electric Start is the least voltage drop across the Starter Solenoid and Grounds.

The performance of batteries is much like the performance from power upgrades. You can buy all the fancy power upgrades for an two stroke, but if the engine is not even outputting 80% from lack of compression due to excessive blowby, those upgrades mean nothing. The same with the battery. You can get the best battery and even a higher CCA, but if 10-30% of its voltage is lost through those two connections, than a 5-10% gain from a stronger battery won't count for nearly as much.

The SDI has a weakness for its Voltage Rectifier Regulator. Avoid boosting the battery. Sure it can work, but it is known to cause trouble like some of the earliest Fuel Injected cars. I used to have the links to show the earliest problems with Fuel Injected cars before I lost them in a laptop crash. Doing a search in 2020 is nowhere near what it was in 2012. It has become increasingly difficult to find the older problems since the later models have been made more resistant. If you want to look it up, search SAAB and BMW. If you know your history of FI, it won't be too difficult to find. Consider the SDI as an old problematic FI car with those early problems. I've been there, hence why I needed to look it up.

I look for a minimum of 14.2 Vdc when the sled idles after using the electric starter (for both SDI and E-TEC). Hopefully it will reach 14.5 at idle, but definitely nowhere in the 13s. After a good ride I want to see 14.7 to 14.8 Vdc at the battery which is without shutting the engine. It is summer and you can't ride, but it can be cheated with LEDs or removing the head light fuse. The battery still needs to sustain 14.7 to 14.8 to show this high voltage.

If it still won't reach high enough voltage, you can add an adequate capacitor to the circuit. If it is a manual start then it should already be wired with one. This is about all I have, so hopefully it helps some.

 

 

 

It has become difficult to sort through YouTube videos, so below is the one that I have used for many years. Do yourself a favor and read through the comments, especially those from the Original Poster knurlgnar24.

 

At 3m9s he speaks of pulse charging. My smart charger once did this on a worn-out Yuasa battery. The voltage shot sky high to around 22 Vdc and the battery temperature rose to a scary level. All it did was kill the battery even more, so I'm not trusting that feature. That battery was so far discharged and dead that it wasn't worth it, but I mention it to be mindful of your smart charger and keep an eye on what it is doing.

 

Also note that he discharges the battery with about 40A. I mentioned 100A because that is what I have on hand with a battery load tester. I could not tell you the pros and cons of 40A vs 100A.

 

 


Edited by Daag44, 24 August 2020 - 12:35 PM.

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1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
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E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
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E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
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#3 74Craig

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Posted 23 August 2020 - 05:57 AM

Great advice ^^^^


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#4 Djetski225

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Posted 23 August 2020 - 02:13 PM

I have tried quite a few different brand batteries in my Quads, SxS, and sleds, but always seem to go back to Yuasa. They seem to last the longest of the few different brands I tried. May pay a bit more, but you will likely get an extra year or 2 life as well.

#5 22Skidoo

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Posted 23 August 2020 - 05:51 PM

Got 10 years out of my 05 GSX battery, sold my 11 TNT  in 19 with original battery, wife's 2012 GT has original battery. Yuasa all the way for me.



#6 xdude

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Posted 23 August 2020 - 06:49 PM

Only replaced my Yuasa once in my ‘05 which I sold in 2018!



#7 krm

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Posted 23 August 2020 - 07:05 PM

Weigh the  Yuasa against all others ,then you'll see why they last and work .



#8 12/3

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Posted 23 August 2020 - 08:37 PM

Can’t comment on the battery you asked about but I’ve been happy with any Yuassa batteries I’ve had.

#9 kruuuzn

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Posted 23 August 2020 - 08:54 PM

Yuasa all the way......never had to replace one. Have gotten upwards of 10 years when properly maintained.


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#10 Seneca

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Posted 24 August 2020 - 02:05 PM

When replacing a battery on a G4 if you use a brand other than Yuasa make sure the top of the battery design is identical to the Yuasa or the bracket that holds the battery will not fit properly.  Been there!



#11 Gin la pine

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Posted 26 August 2020 - 07:50 AM

Cant talk about the g4 application but i bought an ytx9bs from niche 2 months ago,,,,i use it on a quad solely to power the lights and ecu...long story short high comp,,, no decomp so its never used to start.......For 40$ canadian its doin its job perfectly and you can hardly go wrong........battery tender is on it every 2 weeks or so and i dont run it winter time....time will tell if its lasting.......



#12 900mac

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Posted 26 August 2020 - 11:17 AM

When replacing a battery on a G4 if you use a brand other than Yuasa make sure the top of the battery design is identical to the Yuasa or the bracket that holds the battery will not fit properly.  Been there!

Also be careful when tightening the battery hold down. The bolt does not need to be bottomed out, I have seen more than one distorted battery case from over tightening. Can lead to premature failure.



#13 vinci_78

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Posted 26 August 2020 - 02:07 PM

Really good information! Thanks Daag44!

 

That's the first time I hear of this brand. There isn't many manufacturers of Powersport batteries. Like many other brands it could even be made by Yuasa. It doesn't really matter at 15F, but it can become a real problem at -15F if the battery isn't in good health or not strong enough to pull its weight in cold weather.

First thing imo is to make sure the sled has a pull start.

These are things that I consider for a new battery:

1. If shipped factory activated, it should show 13.0+ Vdc.
2. If shipped without acid, follow the instructions to fill and wait before charging, then use an adequate smart charger.
3. Re-charge every 3 months at the longest. More frequent is better.
4. If it doesn't hold near 13 Vdc for at least a couple of weeks after a fresh charge, consider it a bargain battery.
5. 12.8 Vdc is good, but not great. It is still ok for a new battery, and if so consider it a bargain.

6. Older batteries may only hold 12.7 if not 12.6

7. If lower, then consider desulfasion by discharging to ~11.0 Vdc under high load with a battery load tester (those with a 100A heating element), then recharge using a smart charger. Repeat until it reasonably stops rising in cranking amps. And yes I have done so. It's nothing magical either. If the battery has burnt cells for whatever reason like having been frozen while deeply discharged, there isn't anything that is going to save it, no even the fancy tricks. But if it is only sulfated from extended discharge like from March to November with no recharge, then yes it can be rejuvenated to an acceptable level. A brand new battery that has been left to discharge to 12.3 Vdc will take much less effort than an older/worn battery that will never reach par.

 

Best bang for the buck performance in Electric Start is the least voltage drop across the Starter Solenoid and Grounds.

The performance of batteries is much like the performance from power upgrades. You can buy all the fancy power upgrades for an two stroke, but if the engine is not even outputting 80% from lack of compression due to excessive blowby, those upgrades mean nothing. The same with the battery. You can get the best battery and even a higher CCA, but if 10-30% of its voltage is lost through those two connections, than a 5-10% gain from a stronger battery won't count for nearly as much.

The SDI has a weakness for its Voltage Rectifier Regulator. Avoid boosting the battery. Sure it can work, but it is known to cause trouble like some of the earliest Fuel Injected cars. I used to have the links to show the earliest problems with Fuel Injected cars before I lost them in a laptop crash. Doing a search in 2020 is nowhere near what it was in 2012. It has become increasingly difficult to find the older problems since the later models have been made more resistant. If you want to look it up, search SAAB and BMW. If you know your history of FI, it won't be too difficult to find. Consider the SDI as an old problematic FI car with those early problems. I've been there, hence why I needed to look it up.

I look for a minimum of 14.2 Vdc when the sled idles after using the electric starter (for both SDI and E-TEC). Hopefully it will reach 14.5 at idle, but definitely nowhere in the 13s. After a good ride I want to see 14.7 to 14.8 Vdc at the battery which is without shutting the engine. It is summer and you can't ride, but it can be cheated with LEDs or removing the head light fuse. The battery still needs to sustain 14.7 to 14.8 to show this high voltage.

If it still won't reach high enough voltage, you can add an adequate capacitor to the circuit. If it is a manual start then it should already be wired with one. This is about all I have, so hopefully it helps some.

 

 

 

It has become difficult to sort through YouTube videos, so below is the one that I have used for many years. Do yourself a favor and read through the comments, especially those from the Original Poster knurlgnar24.

 

At 3m9s he speaks of pulse charging. My smart charger once did this on a worn-out Yuasa battery. The voltage shot sky high to around 22 Vdc and the battery temperature rose to a scary level. All it did was kill the battery even more, so I'm not trusting that feature. That battery was so far discharged and dead that it wasn't worth it, but I mention it to be mindful of your smart charger and keep an eye on what it is doing.

 

Also note that he discharges the battery with about 40A. I mentioned 100A because that is what I have on hand with a battery load tester. I could not tell you the pros and cons of 40A vs 100A.

 

 



#14 repairman54

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Posted 27 August 2020 - 12:18 PM

In powersports batteries it's Yuasa or Deka for me. Just put a Deka in my '09 replacing the OEM Yuasa last fall. Yuasa still cranked it in '18-'19 winter but after 10 yrs. I think I pushed it far enough. 

Always on a BatteryMinder when put up for summer or parked for a few days. 


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Sleds I've had...
'74 Colt 250SS
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#15 Nickski

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Posted 27 August 2020 - 01:21 PM

We get about 7-8 years or more out the Yuasa’s in our sleds and don’t even use a tender. They spend the summer in the trailer in a barn with no power. Saving a few bucks on an unproven battery just doesn’t make sense for me.






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