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Oil versus Fuel consumption

Oil Consumption

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#1 Daag44

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Posted 12 August 2020 - 12:02 AM

Chart to estimate oil consumption.
 
Function f(x) = 9.61307 * 1.0959 ^ MPG

 

 
Oil Consumption - Markup.jpg

 

 

There is simpler chart that I have devised with rounded numbers to make it easier to remember. I explained it well in the link below which is essentially a guide and not something written in stone.
 
There are two keys to this guide. The first is the chart that respects the chance in oil demand at different rpm and load. The second is the simple method to calculate a percentage less or more oil using the mpq (Miles Per Quart of oil). So if you prefer 20% less oil, then it is a simple % calculation based on mpq which respects the need for oil at different rpm and load. I firmly believe this is a leap forward.

 

The hidden advantage is if a tech or the owner makes a change to the oil consumption either purposely or inadvertently, then this change becomes easy to calculate. The same holds if an engine is rebuilt or a change in track or clutching, or anything that affects the fuel consumption. As long as you know the Fuel vs Oil consumption before the change, then you have the ability to compare the before and after.

 

I keep thinking that I need to submit this to BRP. I know they have their own chart which is essentially what I was able to extract. But the ease in calculating the % increase or decrease may be something new.
 
Oil vs Fuel consumption (see pages 17 and 18)

 

 

Simpler chart

 

4 mpg @ 14:1 @ 14 mpq
5 mpg @ 15:1 @ 19 mpq
6 mpg @ 17:1 @ 25 mpq
7 mpg @ 18:1 @ 32 mpq
8 mpg @ 20:1 @ 40 mpq
9 mpg @ 22:1 @ 49 mpq
10 mpg @ 24:1 @ 60 mpq
11 mpg @ 26:1 @ 70 mpq
12 mpg @ 29:1 @ 85 mpq
13 mpg @ 32:1 @ 105 mpq
14 mpg @ 35:1 @ 120 mpq
15 mpg @ 38:1 @ 140 mpq
16 mpg @ 42:1 @ 170 mpq
17 mpg @ 46:1 @ 195 mpq
18 mpg @ 50:1 @ 225 mpq
19 mpg @ 55:1 @ 260 mpq
20 mpg @ 60:1 @ 300 mpq


Edited by Daag44, 18 January 2021 - 03:08 PM.

Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R Turbo?
850 Cente Oil line for coolant pump melted
850 Main Oil line caught fire #1 and #2
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's and Ronn's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Diagnoses of a failed ECM
Electrical - Solder vs Crimp
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Electric Start troubleshooting
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC eRAVE position code recurring
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
E-TEC Voltage Rectifier Regulator troubleshooting
E-TEC Power Fades are not normal and can be fixed
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 Steering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Muffler Red Hot
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pictures - How to post with the correct orientation
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Power Loss - How to diagnose in the field
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Seafoam for E-TEC injectors
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Spark Plugs cracked
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#2 TheBearAk

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Posted 12 August 2020 - 04:19 AM

okay, granted, I have 1/4 bottle of whiskey in me right now, but I'm struggling to understand this...

 

I've never really let my oil reservoir drop below half, but I usually get about 3 tanks of gas per half of a gallon of oil.

 

6 tanks = 60 gallons

 

60 gallons = 1000+ miles.     So 1 gallon of oil per 1000+ miles.



#3 MX-Z Man

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Posted 12 August 2020 - 04:50 AM

A gallon per 1000??? Wow.

My '18 would burn through a gallon in 300 miles, sometimes even a touch less than that. I had the low oil light pop on at 185 miles one day. That one was thirsty.

My '19 is a bunch better but still uses a gallon in about 450-500 miles.

Then again the '19 was better on fuel too so I'm thinking Daag is on to something here.

Gotta admit, I often shake my head when I read of people getting 18-20 MPG out of an 850. Obviously their riding style is different than mine.

I'm betting my '21 will use virtually no oil, regardless of how much gas it uses. ;)

gallery_5_57_615.jpg

The XP was the most fun sled ever made - but I liked my XR more. The 850 takes it to a whole different level. 

No Need to Freeze-buy a set of these! http://www.coldguards.com/


#4 900mac

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Posted 12 August 2020 - 06:16 AM

 I had a 07 Pol 600 efi that got 400 miles to a quart. Did the Gaspe one year, 1500 miles, 1 gal of oil. Sold it running strong with 8000 miles. Came with a 5 year dealer warranty so I was never worried about burning down, never saw another one so good on oil. My new skidoo is even better, uses NO oil at all.


Edited by 900mac, 12 August 2020 - 06:17 AM.


#5 gadejethro

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Posted 12 August 2020 - 02:40 PM

My buddy was horrified by the oil consumption of his 850 XRS and after owning a dozen Etecs he knew it was different. Called Ski Doo to see what was going on and they said the 850 is set to run approx 20:1. What in the ever loving dogfart is that all about? I have a V6 2 stroke outboard engine, a Mercury made in 2006 that runs at 100:1! Clean burning Etec??? What a load of horsesheet. 

 

What I am saying is there is certainly no set rule of thumb. The earlier 600 etecs SEEM to burn more like 100:1 and the newer 850's obviously 20:1 (by Ski Doos own admission). So while I commend the work you put into writing this up, I am not sure how valuable it is on a wide scale across different brands or engine platforms. 



#6 Go Fast or Go Home

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Posted 12 August 2020 - 06:23 PM

Still in its infancy even after near a decade, this is the latest I have come up with. It would be fantastic to have the OEM show something absolute, but if I wait for this it will never happen. So please use at your own discretion and only as a rough estimate.
 
Given the function f(x) = 9.61307 * 1.0959 ^ MPG, this is mostly for the accuracy of the Direct Oil Injection mapping on the E-TEC, and unassumingly for the Arctic Cat and Polaris equipped with a similar electronically controlled oil pump.
 
For sleds with a mechanically operated oil pump such as a Carbs and SDI, look for your own range of fuel consumption to estimate the need for oil. Always look for a ball park figure.
 
 
attachicon.gifOil Consumption - Markup.jpg

 

 

You lost me at rough estimate and ball park.

 

Don~



#7 Daag44

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Posted 12 August 2020 - 07:30 PM

You lost me at rough estimate and ball park.

 

Don~

 
Think of it as a home run lol


Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R Turbo?
850 Cente Oil line for coolant pump melted
850 Main Oil line caught fire #1 and #2
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's and Ronn's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Diagnoses of a failed ECM
Electrical - Solder vs Crimp
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Electric Start troubleshooting
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC eRAVE position code recurring
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
E-TEC Voltage Rectifier Regulator troubleshooting
E-TEC Power Fades are not normal and can be fixed
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 Steering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Muffler Red Hot
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pictures - How to post with the correct orientation
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Power Loss - How to diagnose in the field
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Seafoam for E-TEC injectors
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Spark Plugs cracked
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#8 Daag44

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Posted 12 August 2020 - 08:52 PM

I had a 07 Pol 600 efi that got 400 miles to a quart. Did the Gaspe one year, 1500 miles, 1 gal of oil. Sold it running strong with 8000 miles. Came with a 5 year dealer warranty so I was never worried about burning down, never saw another one so good on oil. My new skidoo is even better, uses NO oil at all.

 
That is excellent fuel consumption. 19.7 mpg (US) is a from BRP for a sample trail ride on the 850. From the chart it is close to 300 miles per quart of oil. Using the function it figures at 287 mpq. By increasing the distance covered for the same quart of oil to ~40% (39% to be precise), it gives 400 miles per quart!
 
Was the 07 600 a Liberty 4-Injector like the 700? If so it had fuel injectors in the crankcase which made a big difference.


Edited by Daag44, 14 August 2020 - 02:31 PM.

Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R Turbo?
850 Cente Oil line for coolant pump melted
850 Main Oil line caught fire #1 and #2
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's and Ronn's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Diagnoses of a failed ECM
Electrical - Solder vs Crimp
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Electric Start troubleshooting
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC eRAVE position code recurring
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
E-TEC Voltage Rectifier Regulator troubleshooting
E-TEC Power Fades are not normal and can be fixed
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 Steering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Muffler Red Hot
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pictures - How to post with the correct orientation
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Power Loss - How to diagnose in the field
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Seafoam for E-TEC injectors
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Spark Plugs cracked
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#9 Daag44

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Posted 12 August 2020 - 10:41 PM

A gallon per 1000??? Wow.

My '18 would burn through a gallon in 300 miles, sometimes even a touch less than that. I had the low oil light pop on at 185 miles one day. That one was thirsty.

My '19 is a bunch better but still uses a gallon in about 450-500 miles.

Then again the '19 was better on fuel too so I'm thinking Daag is on to something here.

Gotta admit, I often shake my head when I read of people getting 18-20 MPG out of an 850. Obviously their riding style is different than mine.

I'm betting my '21 will use virtually no oil, regardless of how much gas it uses. ;)

 
11 mpg @ 75 miles per quart of oil was a remarkable amount of oil for a trail sled. Thanks to your 2018 it provided the missing coordinate to bridge the gap with off-trail.


Edited by Daag44, 14 August 2020 - 02:58 PM.

Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R Turbo?
850 Cente Oil line for coolant pump melted
850 Main Oil line caught fire #1 and #2
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's and Ronn's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Diagnoses of a failed ECM
Electrical - Solder vs Crimp
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Electric Start troubleshooting
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC eRAVE position code recurring
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
E-TEC Voltage Rectifier Regulator troubleshooting
E-TEC Power Fades are not normal and can be fixed
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 Steering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Muffler Red Hot
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pictures - How to post with the correct orientation
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Power Loss - How to diagnose in the field
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Seafoam for E-TEC injectors
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Spark Plugs cracked
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#10 Daag44

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Posted 12 August 2020 - 11:21 PM

[.....]
 
I've never really let my oil reservoir drop below half, but I usually get about 3 tanks of gas per half of a gallon of oil.
 
6 tanks = 60 gallons
 
60 gallons = 1000+ miles.     So 1 gallon of oil per 1000+ miles.

 
1000 miles to a gallon of oil was roughly 250 miles per quart of oil, so somewhere in between 18 and 19 mpg. Say 18.5 mpg @ 1000 miles, that figures 54 gallons of fuel. Divide by 6 fuel-ups = 9 gallons out of a 10.6 gallon fuel tank on the XP or XS. This is emptying the gas tank more than I am comfortable with, but still reasonable at 85% (9 gallon / 10.6 gallon fuel tank).


Edited by Daag44, 14 August 2020 - 03:00 PM.

Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R Turbo?
850 Cente Oil line for coolant pump melted
850 Main Oil line caught fire #1 and #2
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's and Ronn's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Diagnoses of a failed ECM
Electrical - Solder vs Crimp
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Electric Start troubleshooting
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC eRAVE position code recurring
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
E-TEC Voltage Rectifier Regulator troubleshooting
E-TEC Power Fades are not normal and can be fixed
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 Steering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Muffler Red Hot
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pictures - How to post with the correct orientation
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Power Loss - How to diagnose in the field
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Seafoam for E-TEC injectors
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Spark Plugs cracked
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#11 Daag44

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Posted 13 August 2020 - 01:00 AM

My buddy was horrified by the oil consumption of his 850 XRS and after owning a dozen Etecs he knew it was different. Called Ski Doo to see what was going on and they said the 850 is set to run approx 20:1. What in the ever loving dogfart is that all about? I have a V6 2 stroke outboard engine, a Mercury made in 2006 that runs at 100:1! Clean burning Etec??? What a load of horsesheet. 
 
What I am saying is there is certainly no set rule of thumb. The earlier 600 etecs SEEM to burn more like 100:1 and the newer 850's obviously 20:1 (by Ski Doos own admission). So while I commend the work you put into writing this up, I am not sure how valuable it is on a wide scale across different brands or engine platforms.

   
Unfortunately the productions 850 wasn't given the target oil reduction. BRP started their own thread on DooTalk explained they had to keep using the oil consumption from the 800R E-TEC.


Edited by Daag44, 14 August 2020 - 02:52 PM.

Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R Turbo?
850 Cente Oil line for coolant pump melted
850 Main Oil line caught fire #1 and #2
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's and Ronn's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Diagnoses of a failed ECM
Electrical - Solder vs Crimp
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Electric Start troubleshooting
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC eRAVE position code recurring
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
E-TEC Voltage Rectifier Regulator troubleshooting
E-TEC Power Fades are not normal and can be fixed
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 Steering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Muffler Red Hot
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pictures - How to post with the correct orientation
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Power Loss - How to diagnose in the field
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Seafoam for E-TEC injectors
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Spark Plugs cracked
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#12 Daag44

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Posted 13 August 2020 - 02:05 AM

The following is an Two Stroke Oil Migration paper from Maxima racing oils.
 
The JPG file won't come clear due to DooTalk picture compression from a laptop, so you can click the link below for the source. The results shows the oil consumption depends on engine speed and load. The oil vs fuel consumption will be at its lowest at idle, and at its highest under full load.
 
Miles per Quart is useful to quickly gauge the oil consumption at fuel stops. By graduating the oil tank with a felt type Sharpie for each quarter of a quart, it becomes simpler and faster.
 
I ride over 2 hours between stops, so I need to at least glance at the oil tank to determine it is in the ball park and not running out of oil. Assuming that most riders will consume anywhere in between 100 to 200 mpq, the oil may need to be checked once or twice a day.
 

 
Oil Migration Sheet - MaximaUSA
 

Oil Migration jpg.jpg


Edited by Daag44, 14 August 2020 - 02:46 PM.

Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R Turbo?
850 Cente Oil line for coolant pump melted
850 Main Oil line caught fire #1 and #2
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's and Ronn's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Diagnoses of a failed ECM
Electrical - Solder vs Crimp
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Electric Start troubleshooting
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC eRAVE position code recurring
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
E-TEC Voltage Rectifier Regulator troubleshooting
E-TEC Power Fades are not normal and can be fixed
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 Steering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Muffler Red Hot
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pictures - How to post with the correct orientation
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Power Loss - How to diagnose in the field
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Seafoam for E-TEC injectors
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Spark Plugs cracked
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#13 TheBearAk

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Posted 13 August 2020 - 03:08 AM

I didn't mention my machine.  2015 600 Etec - Renegade BC.

 

First 2000 miles I kept track of gas and oil consumption.   Trips to steep and deep I was getting around 17 MPG.   Trips to the cabin (trails and some off-trail) I would get around 19 MPG.

 

First year I had the machine, I bought 1 gallon of oil and went 1024 miles.   I did neglect to remember that it came with about 1/2 tank of oil when purchased (cheap bostards, LOL)



#14 IcutMetl

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Posted 13 August 2020 - 06:18 PM

My thumb’s getting tired from scrolling past some of these posts!

#15 Daag44

Daag44

    Advanced Member

  • DOOCrew
  • 26450 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Shore, Quebec
  • Interests:1973 Olympic
  • Sled:2007 1000 SDI

Posted 13 August 2020 - 07:02 PM

I didn't mention my machine.  2015 600 Etec - Renegade BC.
 
First 2000 miles I kept track of gas and oil consumption.   Trips to steep and deep I was getting around 17 MPG.   Trips to the cabin (trails and some off-trail) I would get around 19 MPG.
 
First year I had the machine, I bought 1 gallon of oil and went 1024 miles.   I did neglect to remember that it came with about 1/2 tank of oil when purchased (cheap bostards, LOL)

 
Half a tank? That is cheap. I wonder if they used the XPS blend lol 
 
So without knowing what sled/engine that you were riding, the actual fuel consumption in mpg could be estimated from the oil consumption. Not bad for a simple chart.

 

It is a lot simpler than most things we get involved with in our careers and our homes. For a comparison, I would consider how you worked out a problem with the water well to be far more complicated. In hindsight I believe the reason we have trouble understanding something simple as oil consumption is because we never paid enough attention to the subject.


Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R Turbo?
850 Cente Oil line for coolant pump melted
850 Main Oil line caught fire #1 and #2
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's and Ronn's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Diagnoses of a failed ECM
Electrical - Solder vs Crimp
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Electric Start troubleshooting
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC eRAVE position code recurring
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
E-TEC Voltage Rectifier Regulator troubleshooting
E-TEC Power Fades are not normal and can be fixed
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 Steering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Muffler Red Hot
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pictures - How to post with the correct orientation
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Power Loss - How to diagnose in the field
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Seafoam for E-TEC injectors
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Spark Plugs cracked
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix






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