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#31 Zack Watters

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Posted 08 June 2020 - 07:10 PM

To me it is unbearable, but I guess that it is possible. After playing with this stuff blindfolded for years in the 90s, I have gained a lot of respect for those who kept winning racers. My hat is off them. When I got back into sleds I took a whole different approach which was easier on my nerves. There is still a lot of guess work, but nowhere near what it was 20+ years ago. There is an insatiable amount of noise that surrounds two strokes let alone turbos, so I guess you just need to find a path and work the details.

Alright, Thank you Daag! This gives me more hope but I will definitely proceed with some caution :D I really appreciate the info you have given me, it helps a lot!

 

out of curiosity, have you gotten around to your 1000cc turbo project?



#32 Daag44

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Posted 08 June 2020 - 07:22 PM

Lol keep up the good vibes, you'll need it to get through this project. I have turboed a lot of things and was very close to building a kit for one of my 1000sdi's but in the end decided against it. Understand that it is unlikely this project will ever be pull and go. It is a great project and I wish you success but realize that it is now a play thing and you'd best have another stock sled to ride as a back up. Even a lot of turbo guys with kits from top notch shops have backup sleds for when the turbo sled is down. I predict you'll spend most of your season just trying to dial in the tuning once you have the kit built. Good Luck!

 
I think that you should have done it. Let me rephrase that, I think that you should. I would enjoy nothing more than having someone that I could bounce this idea with in real time.


Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R Turbo?
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Diagnoses
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Seafoam for E-TEC injectors
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#33 Daag44

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Posted 08 June 2020 - 09:31 PM

Alright, Thank you Daag! This gives me more hope but I will definitely proceed with some caution :D I really appreciate the info you have given me, it helps a lot!

 

out of curiosity, have you gotten around to your 1000cc turbo project?

 

I focus on the Naturally Aspirated aspect of two strokes. Boost is pushing more air, but if you can draw more air into the combustion chamber, then you can reach nearly the same effect. Some of the most brilliant two stroke artists have managed to push well beyond what most will ever get with boost. The thing is with boost is the same power can be had at lower rpm. I am still focusing on this lower rpm, so an investment in boost needs to reach higher than the inherent boost of a Naturally Aspirated two stroke.

 

As far that i am concerned, Bnorth in on the ball. For promising to keep the public up to date, take a closer look at the turbo 2S thread that I linked previously. The intent is good, but it rarely happens, hence why you are probably having trouble finding good feedback. You will be lucky to get a quarter on the dollar.


Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R Turbo?
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Diagnoses
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Seafoam for E-TEC injectors
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#34 Zack Watters

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Posted 10 June 2020 - 07:02 PM

I focus on the Naturally Aspirated aspect of two strokes. Boost is pushing more air, but if you can draw more air into the combustion chamber, then you can reach nearly the same effect. Some of the most brilliant two stroke artists have managed to push well beyond what most will ever get with boost. The thing is with boost is the same power can be had at lower rpm. I am still focusing on this lower rpm, so an investment in boost needs to reach higher than the inherent boost of a Naturally Aspirated two stroke.

 

As far that i am concerned, Bnorth in on the ball. For promising to keep the public up to date, take a closer look at the turbo 2S thread that I linked previously. The intent is good, but it rarely happens, hence why you are probably having trouble finding good feedback. You will be lucky to get a quarter on the dollar.

The idea of trying to suck more air into the engine naturally sounds interesting, do you have any more info on that? or a place i could get started researching at?

 

What you said makes a lot of sense though as far as not finding as much information on the topic :lol: assuming i were to go forward with this, do you know how the 2 pulses from the tuned exhaust effect the turbo? I came across someone mentioning that the tuned 2 stroke exhaust can do some weird things to a turbo as far as the pulses go, like rotating the intake fan thing backwards. I do not know the technical words for what i am trying to describe, sorry :D



#35 Ditchbangr zx

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Posted 10 June 2020 - 08:04 PM

Why not just do a BB(big bore motor)? Way easier and cheaper and more reliable overall.

Call Big John at SHR (Sled Head Racing) or click the link.......very reputable guy for the power and reliability you want.

https://www.sledhead...ine-performance

#36 Daag44

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Posted 11 June 2020 - 01:12 AM

The idea of trying to suck more air into the engine naturally sounds interesting, do you have any more info on that? or a place i could get started researching at?

What you said makes a lot of sense though as far as not finding as much information on the topic :lol: assuming i were to go forward with this, do you know how the 2 pulses from the tuned exhaust effect the turbo? I came across someone mentioning that the tuned 2 stroke exhaust can do some weird things to a turbo as far as the pulses go, like rotating the intake fan thing backwards. I do not know the technical words for what i am trying to describe, sorry :D


The 600 HO which is pretty much the identical engine for both carb and SDI is already a fantastic start. A stroker is a common mod for added power, and that is what a 600 HO is already with a square bore/stroke. It also has the carbs or throttle bodies sized for around 8000 rpm, as well as an airbox and tuned pipe for the same rpm. I think that this engine has become so common that we have been sensitized to its amazing power output. It's actually detuned for a consumer sled, but still remarkably strong. It's a jack rabbit.

Just remember the carb version doesn't have a Knock Sensor so it can only be uptuned so much before it becomes risky with pump gas. Most of them don't have a DPM, so they are never in tune. I have ridden one with the optimized jetting and it was quick. Unfortunately it detonated on 87 octane (not me with on it). I am ok with a carb having a DPM, but it doesn't interest me to be tuning a trail 600HO carb without one because it is never in tune. I used to make the carb adjustments on race sleds, but now I am trail riding and have no time nor desire to messing with jetting. If it has no DPM then I jet for -20C and suffer the power loss when it gets warmer.

The 600HO also has triple exhaust ports which isn't a small thing! Like I mentioned, we are sensitized because they are the most common and prolific snowmobile engine in history and a big part of bringing BRP to the top even despite the Isoflex which actually works. Those triple ports are very special. Unlike the E-TEC version, there is nothing restricting the auxiliary exhaust ports. So you have all the exhaust flow that you need.

In Post #7 I provided an important key, power per CC. Those aren't just numbers. It reflects the amount of power that is drawn out of the engine. With a stock tune it doesn't reach much above 0.19 Hp/cc. How about reaching 0.2 or even 0.21 Hp/cc? That is the part that you asked me about, trying to suck more air. The question that I keep asking myself, why would I invest thousands of dollars in a turbo when I can reach 0.21 Naturally Aspirated? One of them is easy. The other is complicated and holds a higher risk.

Now we get into airflow. When looking at the MY2007 800R or the 1000 SDI or the latest version of the 600HO - the 600R - they all have two things in common, W type reed valves and a short reed boot. Both of your 600s have the short reed boot, so you are half way there.

Last is the best bang for the buck power increase. Most common answer is a clutch kit. It is sorta right, but not even close. I have had many pros in the racing circuit tell me to avoid focusing too much attention on the engine. They are somewhat right, but they are also assuming the engine is running top. The thing that I personally have trouble with is a two stroke running with too much blowby the rings. 130 cranking psi is not what I call a healthy engine. And too much blowby is not good for any part of the engine. The very best bang for the buck power increase is a well running engine that is reliable. Then it reaches into traction, clutching, alignment and gearing with no particular order.
 
Note that I didn't mention anything special, yet I am spent working only a quarter of that or less. Making sure the engine on an old sled is running top is a huge endeavor. Within an hour I can diagnose a sled far enough to know if I even care to work on it.


Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R Turbo?
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Diagnoses
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Seafoam for E-TEC injectors
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#37 bnorth

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Posted 11 June 2020 - 01:29 PM

 
I think that you should have done it. Let me rephrase that, I think that you should. I would enjoy nothing more than having someone that I could bounce this idea with in real time.

I don't have any 1000sdi's anymore, they are long gone. In my research the only one having real success with boost on the RT1K was Gus Bohne and he was converting them to carbs and going blow through. That wasn't appealing to me since I wanted elevation compensation for mountain riding. As far as I got was tuning for bolt-ons with a boondocker box and egt probes. I had decided that the oem engine management was too complicated and erratic to manage for boost and was considering a standalone like microsquirt but losing RER wasn't very exciting either. 


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#38 Daag44

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Posted 11 June 2020 - 09:43 PM

I don't have any 1000sdi's anymore, they are long gone. In my research the only one having real success with boost on the RT1K was Gus Bohne and he was converting them to carbs and going blow through. That wasn't appealing to me since I wanted elevation compensation for mountain riding. As far as I got was tuning for bolt-ons with a boondocker box and egt probes. I had decided that the oem engine management was too complicated and erratic to manage for boost and was considering a standalone like microsquirt but losing RER wasn't very exciting either.

 
Gus Bohne was in contact with someone who had managed to convert the 1000 SDI to TBI. I am guessing a Microsquirt was used for the TBI conversion. The idea was to make it available as an aftermarket product, but I never heard if it since. I have no doubt that it worked, but it's when it doesn't work that really matters. BRP faced the same struggle when they pushed the 2S decades ahead for MY2017.

 

Air density compensation is the most important thing to me when I am tuning for HO. The SDI is nowhere near the Engine Management of the E-TEC 850, so it's no doubt a challenge. Even with a Wideband we still need to understand how short circuiting works. When a turbo pumps air into the engine, how much of it goes out the exhaust and how much is pushed back into the combustion chamber? It is a guess without monitoring emissions.


Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R Turbo?
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Diagnoses
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Seafoam for E-TEC injectors
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#39 Zack Watters

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Posted 12 June 2020 - 07:58 PM

The 600 HO which is pretty much the identical engine for both carb and SDI is already a fantastic start. A stroker is a common mod for added power, and that is what a 600 HO is already with a square bore/stroke. It also has the carbs or throttle bodies sized for around 8000 rpm, as well as an airbox and tuned pipe for the same rpm. I think that this engine has become so common that we have been sensitized to its amazing power output. It's actually detuned for a consumer sled, but still remarkably strong. It's a jack rabbit.

Just remember the carb version doesn't have a Knock Sensor so it can only be uptuned so much before it becomes risky with pump gas. Most of them don't have a DPM, so they are never in tune. I have ridden one with the optimized jetting and it was quick. Unfortunately it detonated on 87 octane (not me with on it). I am ok with a carb having a DPM, but it doesn't interest me to be tuning a trail 600HO carb without one because it is never in tune. I used to make the carb adjustments on race sleds, but now I am trail riding and have no time nor desire to messing with jetting. If it has no DPM then I jet for -20C and suffer the power loss when it gets warmer.

The 600HO also has triple exhaust ports which isn't a small thing! Like I mentioned, we are sensitized because they are the most common and prolific snowmobile engine in history and a big part of bringing BRP to the top even despite the Isoflex which actually works. Those triple ports are very special. Unlike the E-TEC version, there is nothing restricting the auxiliary exhaust ports. So you have all the exhaust flow that you need.

In Post #7 I provided an important key, power per CC. Those aren't just numbers. It reflects the amount of power that is drawn out of the engine. With a stock tune it doesn't reach much above 0.19 Hp/cc. How about reaching 0.2 or even 0.21 Hp/cc? That is the part that you asked me about, trying to suck more air. The question that I keep asking myself, why would I invest thousands of dollars in a turbo when I can reach 0.21 Naturally Aspirated? One of them is easy. The other is complicated and holds a higher risk.

Now we get into airflow. When looking at the MY2007 800R or the 1000 SDI or the latest version of the 600HO - the 600R - they all have two things in common, W type reed valves and a short reed boot. Both of your 600s have the short reed boot, so you are half way there.

Last is the best bang for the buck power increase. Most common answer is a clutch kit. It is sorta right, but not even close. I have had many pros in the racing circuit tell me to avoid focusing too much attention on the engine. They are somewhat right, but they are also assuming the engine is running top. The thing that I personally have trouble with is a two stroke running with too much blowby the rings. 130 cranking psi is not what I call a healthy engine. And too much blowby is not good for any part of the engine. The very best bang for the buck power increase is a well running engine that is reliable. Then it reaches into traction, clutching, alignment and gearing with no particular order.
 
Note that I didn't mention anything special, yet I am spent working only a quarter of that or less. Making sure the engine on an old sled is running top is a huge endeavor. Within an hour I can diagnose a sled far enough to know if I even care to work on it.

So as far as 600 H.O. SDI's go, they have a knock sensor? 

also, is there a way to tell if it is already tuned out of "consumer" specs?

if it is not already tuned for improved output, do you have any recommendations on how to tune it or will tuning it cause reliability issues?

 

As far as dealing with blowby, is it better to let your engine do its thing and wait until it needs a rebuild, or am i better off replacing the rings and pistons?

how do you decipher if you personally wanna work on an engine?

I am planning to replace my track soon and add extensions so that would deal with the traction side of things :D it might not be following your suggested order tho of engine first tho  :lol:



#40 Zack Watters

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Posted 12 June 2020 - 08:02 PM

Why not just do a BB(big bore motor)? Way easier and cheaper and more reliable overall.

Call Big John at SHR (Sled Head Racing) or click the link.......very reputable guy for the power and reliability you want.

https://www.sledhead...ine-performance

I all ways thought it cost a lot, i guess i didn't think the turbo would be much more, Thank you for the liink tho!



#41 Daag44

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Posted 13 June 2020 - 12:10 AM

So as far as 600 H.O. SDI's go, they have a knock sensor? 
also, is there a way to tell if it is already tuned out of "consumer" specs?
if it is not already tuned for improved output, do you have any recommendations on how to tune it or will tuning it cause reliability issues?
 
As far as dealing with blowby, is it better to let your engine do its thing and wait until it needs a rebuild, or am i better off replacing the rings and pistons?
how do you decipher if you personally wanna work on an engine?
I am planning to replace my track soon and add extensions so that would deal with the traction side of things :D it might not be following your suggested order tho of engine first tho  :lol:

 
<So as far as 600 H.O. SDI's go, they have a knock sensor?>
 
Yes, but it is important to note the Engine Management portion that listens to it and drives the anti-knock strategy is not as sophisticated as an E-TEC.
 
<Also, is there a way to tell if it is already tuned out of "consumer" specs?>
 
Hp per CC
 
 
<if it is not already tuned for improved output, do you have any recommendations on how to tune it or will tuning it cause reliability issues?>

The improvements with the Engine Management is with ignition timing and fuel. The reliability is a question of perspective. I know of SDIs that were always fed 87.  91 E0 gives more breathing room to uptune.
 
 
<As far as dealing with blowby, is it better to let your engine do its thing and wait until it needs a rebuild?>
 
It causes all sorts of runability issues and an overall negative impact on the engine.
 
 
<or am i better off replacing the rings and pistons?> 
 
Piston/ring replacement should be matched to a perfectly straight refurbished  cylinder.
 
Repairs are a different story. Each situation has its own merits.
 
 
<How do you decipher if you personally wanna work on an engine?>
 
It's a combination of things, but too low compression has be loose interest quick. Coolant ingestion is another.
 
 
<I am planning to replace my track soon and add extensions so that would deal with the traction side of things :D
 
A lot of people seem to enjoy the longer track. For a trail sled I prefer a shorter track with better traction.
 
 
 <It might not be following your suggested order tho of engine first tho  :lol:>
 
You need to like your sled to work on it, so why not.


Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R Turbo?
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Diagnoses
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Seafoam for E-TEC injectors
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#42 Daag44

Daag44

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  • 25221 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Shore, Quebec
  • Interests:1973 Olympic
  • Sled:2007 1000 SDI

Posted 13 June 2020 - 12:18 AM

Interesting video on a 440 cat turbo. What draws your attention on the performance?

 

 


Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R Turbo?
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Diagnoses
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Seafoam for E-TEC injectors
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#43 Daag44

Daag44

    Advanced Member

  • DOOCrew
  • 25221 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Shore, Quebec
  • Interests:1973 Olympic
  • Sled:2007 1000 SDI

Posted 13 June 2020 - 12:44 AM

This one sounds better, and it's an SDI. At the very end of the video is shows a Fuel Controller, Wideband and EGT. This setup makes sense to me.
 


Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R Turbo?
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Diagnoses
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Seafoam for E-TEC injectors
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#44 Zack Watters

Zack Watters

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  • PipPipPip
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  • Sled:2003 MXZ Rev 600HO

Posted 13 June 2020 - 11:30 AM

Interesting video on a 440 cat turbo. What draws your attention on the performance?

 

 

The thing that catches my eye is being able to lift your front end off the ground, more like the second video you shared, the other hope was to be able to go faster and a turbo seems like it would show you put in more effort than just swapping out a top end and jets for more CC's... I don't mean that to doc anyone though, it definitely seems like a good idea the more i think on it, idk what i wanna do tho :lol: That being said, I think that I should definitely keep the one I do have relatively simple so it is more reliable and apply this forum to a separate 03-07 Rev

This one sounds better, and it's an SDI. At the very end of the video is shows a Fuel Controller, Wideband and EGT. This setup makes sense to me.
 

I am 99.99% sure mine is SDI, I know it has the MPEM on top of the oil reservoir, right behind the ripcord handle. As far as parts for this turbo setup go, do you only really need a fuel controller, wideband, and EGT as well as a knock sensor and a turbo? I feel like I am missing something :D I will follow in your footsteps on this one and not go with a low compression head... That might be subject to change but we will see. Depending on the turbo I would probably have to get an oil system for it and make sure there is that bleeding valve on the turbo so I could limit the amount of boost going to my engine... I realize I would probably need a welder and some material for the exhaust and "air box" and that I am grossly oversimplifying all of the tuning i would have to do :lol: Am I missing anything?



#45 Daag44

Daag44

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  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Shore, Quebec
  • Interests:1973 Olympic
  • Sled:2007 1000 SDI

Posted 13 June 2020 - 02:54 PM

<I am 99.99% sure mine is SDI, I know it has the MPEM on top of the oil reservoir, right behind the ripcord handle.>
 
MPEM over the oil tank is a carb.
 
 
<As far as parts for this turbo setup go, do you only really need a fuel controller, wideband, and EGT as well as a knock sensor and a turbo? I feel like I am missing something :D >
 
Below is a picture of the parts used for one 600 SDI.
 
Turbo 600sdi pics vid any interest
Started By alexgr8, Feb 16 2009 10:24 PM
 
 
<I will follow in your footsteps on this one and not go with a low compression head... >
 
I favor a large Squish band, but I think the compression ratio depends on elevation and the level of boost. Note how many pounds of boost is shown with the sleds in the video. They are going big boost out of the gate, pun intended.
 
 
<That might be subject to change but we will see.>
 
Exactly. It's time to dig to see what was done in the past.
 
 
<Depending on the turbo I would probably have to get an oil system for it and make sure there is that bleeding valve on the turbo so I could limit the amount of boost going to my engine... I realize I would probably need a welder and some material for the exhaust and "air box" and that I am grossly oversimplifying all of the tuning i would have to do :lol: Am I missing anything?>
 
We are undoubtedly missing a lot of stuff. You already have someone with turbo experience on this thread, so I think it is about asking the right questions. I have a few questions about about the equipment that alexgr8 used back in 2009.

 

Note that alexgr8 used a "low compression head from a non HO 600 (dropped about 20psi).>"   The 20 psi is cranking compression, so it's a reasonable drop. Since it is stock 600 head, then by default it has a large squish band. He go it running with the gate set at 6psi, or 6 lbs of boost.


Edited by Daag44, 13 June 2020 - 07:20 PM.

Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R Turbo?
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Diagnoses
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Seafoam for E-TEC injectors
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix





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