600r ETEC back shift/engine drag at lower speeds. - REV-GEN 4 - MXZ Performance Trail 129/ Renegade 137 - DOOTalk Forums

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600r ETEC back shift/engine drag at lower speeds.


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#1 RVJ

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Posted 03 May 2020 - 02:50 PM

Took the plunge and snow checked a 2021 Gade X 600r ETEC. Has ski doo modified the low speed engine drag/backshifting or is there still that braking feeling at low speeds? 

 

I ride in Yellowknife in northern Canada which is mainly lakes and well beaten down narrow trails. About 5 years ago I purchased a 2011 backcountry with the 600 etec. When I was on the trails, I really noticed the braking feeling at lower speeds. So much so that I thought there was something wrong with the sled. I often stand while going through the trails and it almost put me over the handlebars a number of times. I found it really frustrating. I ended up selling it and buying a showroom condition 2005 Gade X 600 sdi HO with only 400 miles on it.

 

I'm getting older now (58) and my back takes a beating when I sit. I've had the chance to ride a couple of Gen4s and really appreciate the suspension on our rough trails. I thought I would like the 900 ACE but really missed the top end of the 600 HO going across the lakes. The enduro could have possibly been a good choice but I'm a bit nervous of the air ride suspension. I've always been a fan of the x package.

 

I know some people seem to like the drag and/or say that you get used to it but generally I don't. I've seen a number of complaints about it on other forums in the past. I'll be shelling out a lot of $ for a new sled. I want the 600r etec, but I want something that I feel comfortable riding. 

 

I would like comments from others who have the 600r and let me know if the clutch/engine configuration still has the low speed drag/braking feeling or if it has been lightened up since earlier models. Or, if anyone knows a fix.

 

THanks



#2 tnt5150

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Posted 04 May 2020 - 08:47 AM

First off, Welcome to DooTalk! This is the best forum out there. I have 2,000 miles on a 600R and I would say it is the track that drags the sled down and not the clutching. We have taller lug tracks now more than ever and that causes a lot of resistance. This is especially noted as the temps warm up and the snow is like glue. You may not experience that feeling as often being so far north in Yellowknife. You will absolutely love the snap of the 600R. It really is a fun sled to ride. The new suspension, skis and the 6R you will be getting will make you forget about what you are spending and your back will thank you as well. Enjoy and Cheers.


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#3 RVJ

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Posted 04 May 2020 - 08:58 AM

Thanks tnt,

 

My 600 sdi has a 1.75 inch track and i have no issues with it at all. In fact i love the throttle response but it is still very manageable at lower speeds. I know I will have to get used to Gen4 but am looking forward to it. I'm just a little nervous after my experience with my 2011 bc. 



#4 Json

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Posted 05 May 2020 - 12:09 AM

I know that the first model year had that kind of issues but i have read somewhere that since then they have changed the ramp (weight) on the 600r but i have no numbers. Others may chip in on this.



#5 Johnny speed

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Posted 05 May 2020 - 04:46 PM

I have the same feeling with all the newer fuel injected sleds compared to carburetors, when you let off the gas they shut down and feels like the engine is dragging down your momentum, same thing when going from carburetors to fuel injection on my Harley’s! You have to reprogram yourself to not let off the gas all the way and still feed some fuel in yet so it does not slow you down!



#6 RVJ

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Posted 14 May 2020 - 03:29 PM

Thanks all for the replies.

 

is it possible to put a lighter spring in the secondary to ease backshifings? and is it a big job? Does the driveshaft have to be removed?

 

RJ



#7 Dynamo^Joe

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Posted 14 May 2020 - 05:34 PM

How to change your secondary spring



#8 SKIDOOCHRIS

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Posted 15 May 2020 - 09:15 AM

you guys got it all wrong engine braking is good, any time you are coasting your clutch is in the wrong gear for performance

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#9 RVJ

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Posted 15 May 2020 - 05:36 PM

For sure, but it's not that I got it wrong, its more that I've gotten old! I enjoy a performance sled when I'm racing across a lake with the Crew but I also enjoy a nice leisurely ride down the trail looking at wildlife, trees and such.



#10 Snowpull850

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Posted 16 May 2020 - 09:21 PM

I noticed less engine brake feeling when I added Dupont sliders.
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#11 RVJ

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Posted 17 May 2020 - 11:13 AM

Is that the new slider material offered by skidoo?



#12 Mill

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Posted 17 May 2020 - 11:59 AM

Is that the new slider material offered by skidoo?

Not new. Just sliders with vespel inserts to reduce friction and improve longevity.

The stockers are garbage and wear out quickly.

For u. Best option but not cheap, change out all bearings, add vespel sliders, add couple of extra idler wheels, add belt drive and change secondary spring but nothing drastic or When you give it gas as mentioned you will be in the wrong gear and will feel sluggish until gear ratio is corrected. Oh and no more then an inch trail track.

That's all you can do to get more "coast"

You will be fighting against how sleds are designed.

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#13 Dynamo^Joe

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Posted 17 May 2020 - 06:57 PM

Engine braking strength has some contributing factors.

Primary clutch ramp angle (start of..)

Secondary clutch spring start force

Drive belt tension between the two pulleys

Maximum engine vacuum.

 

On a carburetor engine, idling at 1200 rpms, the vacuum is strong, the throttle plate is closed. 

When you increase the engine idle speed to 1500, 1600...etc, the throttle plate is opened more, engine braking strength is lower, maximum engine vacuum is less.

 

I dont know if this will work on an etec.   If BUDS can only change engine idle speed, does the mechanic also open the throttle plate more?

IF opening the throttle plate more to get 1500, 16, 1700...etc will lower vacuum, the engine braking strength will be lower.

 

Other than that, whatever your belt deflection is (tension between the two pulleys), take your deflection and make it a bit more loose by getting the belt to be lower on the rim of the secondary, say by 1mm for start.



#14 RVJ

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Posted 18 May 2020 - 06:52 PM

I've owned 3 600 SDI HOs. 2 Renegades and a GTX. I wish I could get the same smooth easy throttle response in the Gen 4. I'll see if I can get used to the jumpy throttle at lower speeds but I don't understand why if can't just be manufactured that way. 

 

Thanks again everyone for the comments



#15 Snowpull850

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Posted 20 May 2020 - 09:24 AM

I noticed when I put new 007 ramps it changed the engine brake feeling and throttle drastically but thats on the 850. The pdrive is designed to be quick to spool kinda makes it jumpy but as Joe mentioned belt deflection.etc makes a difference.




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