850 gade x under 20mph - REV-GEN 4 - MXZ Performance Trail 129/ Renegade 137 - DOOTalk Forums

Jump to content

 






Photo

850 gade x under 20mph


  • Please log in to reply
66 replies to this topic

#1 Radicalrex

Radicalrex

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 339 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:WNY
  • Interests:Sleds,Bikes, wheelers, Toys.
  • Sled:19 Gade X 850

Posted 15 February 2020 - 08:32 PM

In the moguls going slow under 20mph isn’t fun with the clutch engaging, disengaging. Jerky and Bit tiring
For sure. Any fix for it? Thanks
Can’t find the jerky 850 thread....
Lead, follow or get out of the way..

#2 MX-Z Man

MX-Z Man

    Advanced Member

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPip
  • 27519 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tug Hill Area, NY
  • Sled:'19 850X, Outlander 650XT, & Defender XT

Posted 15 February 2020 - 08:33 PM

Speed up and smooth out the bumps? :shrug

gallery_5_57_615.jpg

The XP was the most fun sled ever made - but I liked my XR more. The 850 takes it to a whole different level. 

No Need to Freeze-buy a set of these! http://www.coldguards.com/


#3 StargateNH

StargateNH

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 188 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Hampshire
  • Sled:Renegade 900T XRS (future purchase)

Posted 15 February 2020 - 08:34 PM

Speed up and smooth out the bumps? :shrug

This is what I do on my ATV. Faster is often better .

#4 Radicalrex

Radicalrex

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 339 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:WNY
  • Interests:Sleds,Bikes, wheelers, Toys.
  • Sled:19 Gade X 850

Posted 15 February 2020 - 08:36 PM

Speed up and smooth out the bumps? :shrug

Not 3’ers... my knees and family jewels couldn’t take it...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Lead, follow or get out of the way..

#5 Daag44

Daag44

    Advanced Member

  • DOOCrew
  • 25221 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Shore, Quebec
  • Interests:1973 Olympic
  • Sled:2007 1000 SDI

Posted 17 July 2020 - 02:24 PM

Radicalrex, it was good talking to you today. It was a pleasant surprise to hear someone who rides much the same way I do. The low speed on/off throttle jerkiness is something that bothered me on the 2018 Freeride 850 146" that I rode. I found it a contentious issue offline as much as online. I believe - without measuring - that there is a part of it that is in the ignition/fuel timing that we can't do much about, but the magic is in the clutching, gearing and deflection.
 
Here is one thread that addresses the issue. The deflection adjustment is one thing I do differently, but trial and error on the deflection is easy and tells the story.
 

"Snappy" throttle/clutch engagement.
Started By addano, Dec 15 2019 01:06 PM


Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R Turbo?
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Diagnoses
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Seafoam for E-TEC injectors
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#6 Daag44

Daag44

    Advanced Member

  • DOOCrew
  • 25221 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Shore, Quebec
  • Interests:1973 Olympic
  • Sled:2007 1000 SDI

Posted 17 July 2020 - 02:36 PM

This one is on SnoWest and refers to lowering the engagement down to 2,700-2,800 rpm. I consider this to be a dramatic drop in engagement.

 

https://www.snowest....ad.php?t=443375

 


Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R Turbo?
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Diagnoses
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Seafoam for E-TEC injectors
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#7 djm

djm

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 13672 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fenton, Mi.
  • Sled:09 700HO TNT, 11 Summit 770HO, 850 Sum X

Posted 17 July 2020 - 06:36 PM

This one is on SnoWest and refers to lowering the engagement down to 2,700-2,800 rpm. I consider this to be a dramatic drop in engagement.

 

https://www.snowest....ad.php?t=443375

Had my 17 850 Summit down to 2500/2700 using a qrs secondary spring that just fit over the primary hub.  Still didn't get rid of the off on carburation calibration; but definitely made it better.  Maybe Joey's ramps with the new 100 lb start primary spring, one can smooth it out even more and lower it more.  Also 120 and a 135 start springs too, but finish pressure are lower than the Dalton 100/370.  I initially tried just  shortening the production springs since there were no low force start springs in 17; but that didn't work well for me.   Have to dig through my notes if I can find them to remember what Hotrod Sled shop H5 secondary spring that I used at the time.  But with the lower newer primary start force spring, one should work.  

 

 



#8 dcstewart77

dcstewart77

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 112 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lakes Region, NH
  • Sled:16 900ace TNT, 2021 Renegade X 900T

Posted 17 July 2020 - 06:56 PM

I think the primary spring on the 2018+ TNTs and Adrenalins engage at a lower engagement. And the 2018+ X and XRS kept the higher engagement spring (from what was standard in 2017)

 

My 2018 TNT is much more docile at engagement/low speeds than friends with 2017 850s.



#9 Xrsphil

Xrsphil

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 789 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Sled:2016 xrs 800

Posted 17 July 2020 - 07:53 PM

If you do 60+ over the whoops they almost disappear 😉

#10 ncapster

ncapster

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 9519 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Just SW of Twin Cities
  • Sled:18 MXZ-X 850 & 18 MXZ Sport 600 ACE

Posted 17 July 2020 - 08:18 PM

Stock clutching? My 850 has never been jerky, even at extremely low speeds like crawling across a gas station parking lot.


#11 Daag44

Daag44

    Advanced Member

  • DOOCrew
  • 25221 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Shore, Quebec
  • Interests:1973 Olympic
  • Sled:2007 1000 SDI

Posted 17 July 2020 - 08:36 PM

Click here for the story behind this thread.


Edited by Daag44, 17 July 2020 - 08:38 PM.

Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R Turbo?
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Diagnoses
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Seafoam for E-TEC injectors
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#12 Daag44

Daag44

    Advanced Member

  • DOOCrew
  • 25221 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Shore, Quebec
  • Interests:1973 Olympic
  • Sled:2007 1000 SDI

Posted 18 July 2020 - 12:27 AM

Had my 17 850 Summit down to 2500/2700 using a qrs secondary spring that just fit over the primary hub.  Still didn't get rid of the off on carburation calibration; but definitely made it better.  Maybe Joey's ramps with the new 100 lb start primary spring, one can smooth it out even more and lower it more.  Also 120 and a 135 start springs too, but finish pressure are lower than the Dalton 100/370.  I initially tried just  shortening the production springs since there were no low force start springs in 17; but that didn't work well for me.   Have to dig through my notes if I can find them to remember what Hotrod Sled shop H5 secondary spring that I used at the time.  But with the lower newer primary start force spring, one should work.

 

I found the thread were some of you were talking about the jerkiness just recently. jcjc is another who didn't like the jerkiness and seems to enjoy the clutch kit. His is a mountain sled, so I don't know how well the kit applies to a trail sled. I haven't lowered the engagement as low as you have, but all this talk has me want to try it. Is it around 10 lbs per 100 rpm?
 
Clutch Tuning
Started By 2020tnt, Jun 29 2020 12:14 PM


Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R Turbo?
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Diagnoses
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Seafoam for E-TEC injectors
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#13 mike0chek

mike0chek

    Banshee Builder

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3947 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Brunswick, Canada
  • Interests:cold temps, deep snow, banshees
  • Sled:2019 backcountry 850 XRS 10,425 Miles

Posted 18 July 2020 - 03:04 AM

If you do 60+ over the whoops they almost disappear

agreed!  :lol:  :lol:



#14 fred1200

fred1200

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 430 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Muskoka
  • Interests:Water skiing, going fast
  • Sled:16 1200 Blizzard

Posted 18 July 2020 - 09:19 AM

My 19 600R does the same thing, very jerky.



#15 Radicalrex

Radicalrex

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 339 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:WNY
  • Interests:Sleds,Bikes, wheelers, Toys.
  • Sled:19 Gade X 850

Posted 18 July 2020 - 12:22 PM

Daag44 thanks for firing back up my thread and posting possibilities to review, and start hopefully In the best direction the first time.
I don’t foresee throwing in the towel on my 850x until exhausting some different ideas that it appears you have provided and influenced.

Edited by Radicalrex, 18 July 2020 - 12:32 PM.

Lead, follow or get out of the way..




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users