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Strange series of events


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#16 ETECtrical

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Posted 10 February 2020 - 04:26 PM

Need to have the sled running first. Main issue - It wont start

Correct



#17 ETECtrical

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Posted 11 February 2020 - 10:20 PM

What do you guys think the probability is of my fuel pump reading 45psi on a gauge w/o sled running but still being faulty? I read the manual and what I got (4 beeps rapidly) and "shutdown" happens for two reasons - over heating (wasn't happening) or fuel pump issue. Again, it tested out as 45psi. Even if it is faulty, wouldn't the sled at least try to start or start if it had 45psi at startup? And then if I hammered it after it was running it would die because the pressure nosedives? 



#18 Sorcerer

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 07:24 AM

It should start. Have you checked if plugs are getting wet after some cranking ? Since you have spark, probably not. Check your capacitor on RH side above oil tank. Wait at least 10 sec discharge time after cranking before you touch the capacitor. Check both connections to make sure they are tight and see if you see any obvious burn/damage/smell/fluid leakage on/ to the capcitor. Do you have a dealer closeby to hook up BUDS to your sled ?

Attached Images

  • Etec diag.jpg
  • Capacitor.jpg

Edited by Sorcerer, 12 February 2020 - 07:27 AM.

2015 Renegade 800 Etec XRS (2014 Prototype)

2006 Mach Z 1000 SDI

2000 Mach Z 800 Millenium Edition

1993 Mach 1 670

1993 Formula Plus EFI (Stock EFI system)

1983 Blizzard 9700


#19 ETECtrical

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 01:13 PM

It should start. Have you checked if plugs are getting wet after some cranking ? Since you have spark, probably not. Check your capacitor on RH side above oil tank. Wait at least 10 sec discharge time after cranking before you touch the capacitor. Check both connections to make sure they are tight and see if you see any obvious burn/damage/smell/fluid leakage on/ to the capcitor. Do you have a dealer closeby to hook up BUDS to your sled ?

Great info. Hadn't considered this. Every symptom here I have - will check for hot/burning smell.



#20 ETECtrical

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Posted 17 February 2020 - 06:14 PM

Anybody have experience with these codes? The major ones not the irrelevant ones. Any common problem areas/things to look for. I would assume I need a MAG side coil, maybe PTO as well?

fodS0mGMRqiPqzw0OmkTJw.jpg

+wA48SavQpWiLa1eiohTWg.jpg


Edited by ETECtrical, 17 February 2020 - 08:37 PM.


#21 Daag44

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Posted 26 February 2020 - 01:12 AM

Anybody have experience with these codes? The major ones not the irrelevant ones. Any common problem areas/things to look for. I would assume I need a MAG side coil, maybe PTO as well?
attachicon.giffodS0mGMRqiPqzw0OmkTJw.jpg
attachicon.gif+wA48SavQpWiLa1eiohTWg.jpg


I have seen a similar grouping of codes and it was related to a short to ground along the battery charging positive wire.

 

2013 800R E-TEC caused by a short to ground
P0113  Air temperature sensor voltage too high
P0217  High coolant temperature detected
P0246  Exhaust muffler temperature sensor functional problem
P0428  Exhaust muffler temperature sensor open circuit
P1351  MAG ignition shorted to system voltage
P1352  PTO  ignition shorted to system voltage
P1427  Temperature module not detected
P1563  High voltage on system voltage circuit
P2299  Incompatibility between brake lever position and engine/vehicle speed

 
2015 800R E-TEC
P0217 High coolant temperature detected
P0351 MAG ignition coil open circuit or shorted to ground
P1218 Major Engine overheat occurred
P1231 Oil pump open circuit or shorted to ground
P1351 MAG ignition shorted to system voltage
P1352 PTO  ignition shorted to system voltage
P2299 Incompatibility between brake lever position and engine/vehicle speed


P Codes in common

P0217  High coolant temperature detected

P1351  MAG ignition shorted to system voltage
P1352  PTO  ignition shorted to system voltage

P2299  Incompatibility between brake lever position and engine/vehicle speed


Edited by Daag44, 28 January 2021 - 01:43 AM.

Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R P-TEK Electrical Troubleshooting #1 and #2 
800R Turbo
850 Center Oil line for coolant pump melted
850 Main Oil line caught fire #1 and #2
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's and Ronn's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
Crankshaft runout - maximum allowable specs 
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Electrical - ECM drivers for Ignition Coils and E-TEC injectors 
Electrical - Diagnoses of a failed ECM
Electrical - 30A Battery Charging Fuse Socket Diagnoses and Relay
Electrical - Relay Coil Wine
Electrical - Relay Testing
Electrical - Battery Charging Relay Diagnostic 
Electrical - Troubleshooting with BRP video 
Electrical - Solder vs Crimp
Electrical - Diagram for Fanners on page 3
Engine Break-In 
Engine Weight 
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Electric Start troubleshooting
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC eRAVE position code recurring
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
E-TEC Voltage Rectifier Regulator troubleshooting
E-TEC Power Fades are not normal and can be fixed
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 Steering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Longevity - 800R E-TEC 
Mikuni o-ring for carb float assembly - Arctic Cat part# 6505-875 or from Amazon and eBay
Muffler Red Hot
Off-trail riding for flatlanders
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pictures - How to post with the correct orientation
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Power Loss - How to diagnose in the field
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Seafoam for E-TEC injectors
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Spark Plugs cracked
Squish - The limit
Squish - A discussion on head design
Stator and Relay Diagnostic 
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator Removal on page 3
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#22 Dark Ice Hornet

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Posted 26 February 2020 - 08:41 AM

Anybody have experience with these codes? The major ones not the irrelevant ones. Any common problem areas/things to look for. I would assume I need a MAG side coil, maybe PTO as well?

 

Ignition and oil pump run off 60v system voltage. When it was connected to BUDS did you crank over the sled to see what system voltage was? When I see multiple codes related to system voltage its either means stators not making enough voltage or you have a component sucking to much juice out of the system voltage or capacitor not holding voltage. I've replaced more stators on 800etecs then anything. Test your stator. Besides a stator you could visually check the back "Soft Side" of the ignition coils for any signs of melting or sticky goo. They also run of system voltage and tend to melt when shorted.

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  • IMG_5874.JPG
  • IMG_5875.JPG


#23 ETECtrical

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Posted 16 March 2020 - 10:08 AM

Alright so I performed everything but the stator output test and everything came back within spec. I assume it to be in good working condition at this point. I ordered a new (used) capacitor off a 17 800etec for 25$ and will see if it solves my problem. Have every symptom of a bad one except for the burning smell. Ignition coils appear (visually) ok. If capacitor does not fix problem, will go to ignition coils. If not that, will test for stator output as that is the last possible culprit it seems.

 

What are the odds stator output is weak/bad if the resistances came out good?


Edited by ETECtrical, 16 March 2020 - 10:27 AM.


#24 Daag44

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Posted 16 March 2020 - 01:36 PM

The culprit for the case I mentioned was the insulation on the positive wire from the battery that had chaffed on the bolt that clamps the battery in place.


Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R P-TEK Electrical Troubleshooting #1 and #2 
800R Turbo
850 Center Oil line for coolant pump melted
850 Main Oil line caught fire #1 and #2
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's and Ronn's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
Crankshaft runout - maximum allowable specs 
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Electrical - ECM drivers for Ignition Coils and E-TEC injectors 
Electrical - Diagnoses of a failed ECM
Electrical - 30A Battery Charging Fuse Socket Diagnoses and Relay
Electrical - Relay Coil Wine
Electrical - Relay Testing
Electrical - Battery Charging Relay Diagnostic 
Electrical - Troubleshooting with BRP video 
Electrical - Solder vs Crimp
Electrical - Diagram for Fanners on page 3
Engine Break-In 
Engine Weight 
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Electric Start troubleshooting
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC eRAVE position code recurring
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
E-TEC Voltage Rectifier Regulator troubleshooting
E-TEC Power Fades are not normal and can be fixed
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 Steering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Longevity - 800R E-TEC 
Mikuni o-ring for carb float assembly - Arctic Cat part# 6505-875 or from Amazon and eBay
Muffler Red Hot
Off-trail riding for flatlanders
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pictures - How to post with the correct orientation
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Power Loss - How to diagnose in the field
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Seafoam for E-TEC injectors
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Spark Plugs cracked
Squish - The limit
Squish - A discussion on head design
Stator and Relay Diagnostic 
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator Removal on page 3
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#25 DTXRSB

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Posted 17 March 2020 - 07:38 PM

Alright so I performed everything but the stator output test and everything came back within spec. I assume it to be in good working condition at this point. I ordered a new (used) capacitor off a 17 800etec for 25$ and will see if it solves my problem. Have every symptom of a bad one except for the burning smell. Ignition coils appear (visually) ok. If capacitor does not fix problem, will go to ignition coils. If not that, will test for stator output as that is the last possible culprit it seems.

 

What are the odds stator output is weak/bad if the resistances came out good?

I have good coils from an 800 ETEC if needed.



#26 ETECtrical

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Posted 24 March 2020 - 12:39 PM

Swapped out capacitor to no avail. Am checking plugs in a bit to see if they are wet after cranking, I really don't see how they could be. Looking more and more like stator as time goes on.


Edited by ETECtrical, 24 March 2020 - 04:05 PM.


#27 ETECtrical

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Posted 24 March 2020 - 04:07 PM

Did another check around to see if i missed something. Mag side coil completely dead. Verified it was not plug or plug wire and plugged dead MAG coil into PTO coil connection and was still dead. Plugs also dry as a bone, not getting gas when turning over. Injectors aren't firing for some reason. Fresh full battery charge, new capacitor. Stator ohm resistances were good but didn't check output.


Edited by ETECtrical, 24 March 2020 - 04:11 PM.


#28 Dark Ice Hornet

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Posted 24 March 2020 - 06:18 PM

Check your Stator output or bring it in and have BUDS hooked up again and check system voltage while cranking over. 



#29 ETECtrical

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Posted 09 April 2020 - 12:16 PM

Anyone have a good used stator for a 15 800 etec in the Waukesha, Wisconsin area?



#30 ETECtrical

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Posted 13 April 2020 - 03:12 PM

Got another coil for mag side. Threw it in and no change. Still no spark coming from that side. Would a bad stator not even provide enough juice to have both coils fire? The PTO side sparks super bright and aggressively and the MAG side has absolutely nothing. Haven't yet checked stator output, but it seems unlikely to me that a bad stator would fire one plug super bright and the other one not at all.

 

---update---

 

Wow this is strange, I think im just gonna call it and swap stators. See if you can follow this.

 

Trial 1:

MAG connection, MAG coil, MAG plug wire: no spark

PTO connection, PTO coil, PTO plug wire: aggressive, huge, yellow flame looking spark***

-----------------------------------------

Trial 2:

PTO connection, MAG coil, MAG plug wire: controlled, consistent, blue spark***

-----------------------------------------

Trial 3: PTO connection, PTO coil, MAG plug wire: no spark***


Edited by ETECtrical, 13 April 2020 - 04:17 PM.





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