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Strange series of events


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#1 ETECtrical

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Posted 08 February 2020 - 04:37 PM

Hey all,

 

2015 renegade x 800etec. 5000 miles. For the last season and a half ive been having intermittent problems where at high speed/rpm the sled will just fall on its face. Feels like fuel pressure just drops off completely. If i let off and hammer it, it would go good again for five or ten seconds and then fall on its face again. It wasn't that big of a deal so I didn't worry about it, i'd read a ton of posts about this exact thing regarding fuel pressure regulators so I kinda assumed it was par for the course.

 

Last weekend im cruising about 50mph. Dash starts beeping, check engine light comes on, sled slowly bogs out and dies within seconds. No weird sounds from motor or anything. I start it back up and its idling rough, sounds like its dying out, and if I touch the throttle it dies. Dies once, started it again. On the second start up, the oil light joined the party. Starts flashing "no oil." I had 3/4 tank of oil. Touch the throttle, died. Got one more start up for a second or two and then it died completely and wouldn't even attempt to fire from then on. Turned over freely and seemed normal.

 

Checked compression today. 150 both holes. Tore the sled down and removed the fuel tank and my next move is gonna be to check fuel pressure and the regulator.

 

Anybody have any insight here? If my fuel pump just bit the dust/regulator came loose or fell off in the tank would that throw a check engine light? What about a "no oil" light? After the second or third start up the gauge cluster was kind of going haywire too, but I figured that was from the three start/stops of the motor during the initialization start up sequence confusing the gauge.

 

Anything else anyone can think of?



#2 xcrsp440

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Posted 08 February 2020 - 10:31 PM

Warning lights are common when engine dies or is running too slow to make enough current.
Put an inline fuel pressure tester on. See what you get.

#3 Sorcerer

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Posted 09 February 2020 - 04:33 PM

Fuel pressure or stator, or bad ground is my bet. After startup, relay kicks in at 800rpm to power ecm gauge and lights. If sled is running poorly and your idel is under 900 -1000 rpm, not eneough power is generated to the ecm,  and it can act weird.


Edited by Sorcerer, 09 February 2020 - 04:37 PM.

2015 Renegade 800 Etec XRS (2014 Prototype)

2006 Mach Z 1000 SDI

2000 Mach Z 800 Millenium Edition

1993 Mach 1 670

1993 Formula Plus EFI (Stock EFI system)

1983 Blizzard 9700


#4 ETECtrical

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Posted 09 February 2020 - 06:05 PM

So fuel pressure tested out at 45psi. Checked spark, good. Compression 150 each hole. So far i've found no reason it shouldn't run. Injector failure maybe? In my experience (which is numerous with stators unfortunately), stators don't just spontaneously die, you slowly lose things until the sled doesn't run any more. Handwarmers stop, lights dim/go out, etc. and then eventually it just wont start. My sled died in a matter of seconds.

 

Looks like I might have to take it in and have them check codes. Otherwise I might be on a wild goose chase.



#5 bigmachdaddy

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Posted 09 February 2020 - 06:37 PM

Can't u pull the codes yourself? Headlight switch on/off quickly several times?

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#6 ETECtrical

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Posted 09 February 2020 - 08:09 PM

Can't u pull the codes yourself? Headlight switch on/off quickly several times?

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Sled doesn't run



#7 bigmachdaddy

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Posted 09 February 2020 - 08:19 PM

Makes sense, sorry about that didn't see that part.

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#8 xcrsp440

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Posted 09 February 2020 - 09:37 PM

What is the battery voltage?

#9 ETECtrical

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Posted 09 February 2020 - 11:02 PM

What is the battery voltage?

Same battery i've run for the last two years. Turns the motor over just fine, strong.



#10 xcrsp440

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Posted 10 February 2020 - 01:01 AM

So you haven’t actually confirmed a reading? Just think it is good.

#11 Sorcerer

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Posted 10 February 2020 - 05:31 AM

How did the plugs look ? Any differences between the two ? Is the sled in a heated grage now, just to rule out water/ice blockage in fuel system - or isopropanol. If there is good spark, then all points to a fuel issue. Kind of weird that both injectors should fail at the same time. Check injector harness and connectors. Ecm connector and fuses.

Grounds.

 

No difference if you depress the throttle slightly when trying to start ?


2015 Renegade 800 Etec XRS (2014 Prototype)

2006 Mach Z 1000 SDI

2000 Mach Z 800 Millenium Edition

1993 Mach 1 670

1993 Formula Plus EFI (Stock EFI system)

1983 Blizzard 9700


#12 ETECtrical

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Posted 10 February 2020 - 11:19 AM

How did the plugs look ? Any differences between the two ? Is the sled in a heated grage now, just to rule out water/ice blockage in fuel system - or isopropanol. If there is good spark, then all points to a fuel issue. Kind of weird that both injectors should fail at the same time. Check injector harness and connectors. Ecm connector and fuses.

Grounds.

 

No difference if you depress the throttle slightly when trying to start ?

One plug appeared more black/sooty and the other was much cleaner. That was part of the reason I expected the worst when I checked compression, but 150 each hole. Sled is not in heated garage, but the day it died on me it was around 30 degrees and had been running fine all day. I haven't checked the injector harness and connectors yet, will do that. Haven't checked fuses yet either. If there is an actual fuse for the injectors that could explain all of this. Reason I didn't check fuses is because after it died once, it started three more times. Figured if a fuse blew I wouldn't be getting a second start at all as fuses don't "kinda" blow, but I hadn't considered there being a fuse specific to injection.

 

No difference with applied throttle at start. Will double check grounds as well.


Edited by ETECtrical, 10 February 2020 - 11:21 AM.


#13 Sorcerer

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Posted 10 February 2020 - 01:31 PM

One plug appeared more black/sooty and the other was much cleaner. That was part of the reason I expected the worst when I checked compression, but 150 each hole. Sled is not in heated garage, but the day it died on me it was around 30 degrees and had been running fine all day. I haven't checked the injector harness and connectors yet, will do that. Haven't checked fuses yet either. If there is an actual fuse for the injectors that could explain all of this. Reason I didn't check fuses is because after it died once, it started three more times. Figured if a fuse blew I wouldn't be getting a second start at all as fuses don't "kinda" blow, but I hadn't considered there being a fuse specific to injection.

 

No difference with applied throttle at start. Will double check grounds as well.

Hm, probably right with the fuse theory, and the 5 amp fuse is for start/rer - the other one is charging fuse - but not sure if that one affects other things.

I think the best option right now, if you can rule out connector and wire harness faults/defects, bad ground at the RH footwell and RH front engine mount, is to get your dealer to connect BUDS and check for faults and they can also activate fuel pump, ignition modules, injectors etc to check for propper functions within BUDS diagnostic software. You could have low 60acV from stator, a faulty capacitor, bad TPS or a crank sensor. ECM and fuel injectors are on the 60acV system. Dealer should be able to see any fault with the BUDS program within a couple of minutes.


Edited by Sorcerer, 10 February 2020 - 01:33 PM.

2015 Renegade 800 Etec XRS (2014 Prototype)

2006 Mach Z 1000 SDI

2000 Mach Z 800 Millenium Edition

1993 Mach 1 670

1993 Formula Plus EFI (Stock EFI system)

1983 Blizzard 9700


#14 bnorth

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Posted 10 February 2020 - 02:33 PM

need to check fuel pressure under load. When the pumps go they can supply pressure up to a point then they can't keep up with demand. Idle or light cruising won't show this, need to do a WOT pull with the pressure gauge hooked up. 


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#15 Sorcerer

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Posted 10 February 2020 - 03:29 PM

need to check fuel pressure under load. When the pumps go they can supply pressure up to a point then they can't keep up with demand. Idle or light cruising won't show this, need to do a WOT pull with the pressure gauge hooked up. 

Need to have the sled running first. Main issue - It wont start


2015 Renegade 800 Etec XRS (2014 Prototype)

2006 Mach Z 1000 SDI

2000 Mach Z 800 Millenium Edition

1993 Mach 1 670

1993 Formula Plus EFI (Stock EFI system)

1983 Blizzard 9700





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