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16' 800 ETEC 'Gade Meltdown Diagnosis

800 ETEC meltdown XS Piston

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#1 It'sThe"Z"

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Posted 02 February 2020 - 08:25 PM

Well here I sit broken hearted, engine blown, can't be started. 

 

Sled is a 2016 Renegade Adrenaline 800 ETEC, ~3,200 miles. Had about 1,000 miles on the season so far and ended last weekend with this. Was running good and strong all season. 

 

Riding in northern Wisconsin that day was probably in the lower 30's (F), plenty of snow loose snow on the trails. Symptoms all came within 15 minutes of catastrophic failure. Sled died at a stop at an intersection, had to give it some throttle to get it going again, didn't think much of it. Ran like normal for the next couple miles. Then BAM, going about 60mph and the thing just looses all power and I come to a stop. Immediately assume I blew the motor, and expected it to be seized. Try cranking the motor, turns over no problem. Check the tunnel, not hot, just warm. After many attempts, get it running, but it's labored and sounds like it's just running on one cylinder. After many starts and dies, we realize it's not getting anywhere on it's own and start towing it back to the nearest road. We were baffled as to what was going on, and assumed it must be fuel or electrical related. While being towed, I tried starting it for edit for bad language and giggles and fired up no problem, sounded pretty normal. We stopped and put the belt back on and it ran 3/4 of the way back to the road strong as ever. The last 1/4 it bogged down, but still made it back to the road. 

 

After getting it back home, started down the path of fuel. Planned on taking the tank off and checking the pressure regulator, also got a set of plugs, as they looked a little grungy. After the plugs didn't fix anything, decided to check compression. Nearly thought my compression tester wasn't working, because it was reading a big fat 0. Dug my bore scope out and revealed the absolute carnage inside. 

 

Got everything all torn down today. Checked the fuel pressure regulator, still seated properly. I'll dig into the filters probably this week, to verify they aren't clogged (have only ever filled up at reputable gas stations, so I'm not expecting them to be). The PTO piston is the affected side. To me it looks like a lean melt down. I'm worried that it might have been an injector going bad. I'll continue tear down this week to determine if the crank is salvageable. But I'd really like to find root cause and not burn down the rebuild. 

 

PTO Piston
MAG Piston
Head
Cylinder
 
 

 



#2 HeelKlicker

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Posted 02 February 2020 - 09:26 PM

Consider the ring pin. It’s been trending for years.

https://www.dootalk....ng-pin-failure/

Edited by HeelKlicker, 02 February 2020 - 09:28 PM.

user posted image

#3 Powder dave

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Posted 02 February 2020 - 09:30 PM

Yeah that sucker looks lean
SUMMER SUCKS!!

#4 It'sThe"Z"

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Posted 02 February 2020 - 10:19 PM

Some more up close photos. It's clear the pin was ejected, there's a mark on the cylinder wall. The ring is also 180 degrees from where it should reside. Which came first the pin or the lean condition?
 
Ring Gap Exhaust Port Side
Missing Pin
Cracks Between Ports
Pin Ejection


#5 mc670

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Posted 03 February 2020 - 11:24 AM

Looks very similar to the damage that happened to mine a couple weeks ago although mine lost the MAG side piston, locator pin missing also. Unsure if a injector failed or what, i have a new set picked up along with a new shortblock to install next week when i get time.

I have a thread a few pages back on my engine, check it out. There a lot of info!

https://r.tapatalk.c...link_source=app

Edited by mc670, 03 February 2020 - 11:25 AM.

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#6 b.lee

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Posted 03 February 2020 - 11:56 AM

Sounds like the PTO injector to me.

If your ETEC needs ANY throttle at all to start up or stay running, DO NOT RUN IT.

 

Have the PTO injector tested or replaced

Might want to test fuel pump too (it can't hurt)


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#7 machman1998

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Posted 03 February 2020 - 01:05 PM

Check your cyl it looks cracked into the water jacket by the guillotine look inside the water jacket from the top

#8 b.lee

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Posted 03 February 2020 - 03:37 PM

Check your cyl it looks cracked into the water jacket by the guillotine look inside the water jacket from the top

Good catch


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#9 Motoringmike

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Posted 03 February 2020 - 06:36 PM

One of my rings gave way as well. Good times!30534c1ef3d4257ff8a5c21763a2023f.jpga2552906284c9d4747335d97e93267cb.jpga0e2396dc0256a117c1d3cf6bccf130b.jpg


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#10 It'sThe"Z"

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Posted 04 February 2020 - 10:55 AM

Check your cyl it looks cracked into the water jacket by the guillotine look inside the water jacket from the top

 

Yeah, I put that picture in there because of that and forgot to mention anything about it. There's a crack between the big and small exhaust port, then another one running into the small exhaust port, but it's between intake and exhaust ports. Not seeing anything in the water jacket, but that doesn't mean it's there. I'm kinda under the impression that it was form the carnage of the piston. 



#11 It'sThe"Z"

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Posted 04 February 2020 - 11:09 AM

Looks very similar to the damage that happened to mine a couple weeks ago although mine lost the MAG side piston, locator pin missing also. Unsure if a injector failed or what, i have a new set picked up along with a new shortblock to install next week when i get time.

I have a thread a few pages back on my engine, check it out. There a lot of info!

https://r.tapatalk.c...link_source=app

 

Have you gotten yours put back together? Did you get that injector flow checked? Is that something a dealer can do or will I likely need to get it sent out. I saw one place that did a cleaning and flow test for reasonable price. How did your stator look? I still need to look at boots and seals to see if there were any air leaks. 



#12 mc670

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Posted 04 February 2020 - 11:15 AM

Have you gotten yours put back together? Did you get that injector flow checked? Is that something a dealer can do or will I likely need to get it sent out. I saw one place that did a cleaning and flow test for reasonable price. How did your stator look? I still need to look at boots and seals to see if there were any air leaks.

Mine is still not back together, been too busy with work. Hoping to get at it next week.


Local dealer here does not test injectors, nor would they recommend a place i could send them to get tested. I got a deal on 2 new injectors one ebay for roughly $200 shipped. I don't want to chance it on the new shortblock. You maybe able to find someplace to test them easier in the states.

I'm replacing the stator also, was going to get it tested but i ended up damaging it with the puller when i was removing the flywheel... Oh well. Lol.


Edited by mc670, 04 February 2020 - 08:17 PM.

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2013 Can-am Renegade X-Xc 800R

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#13 DOOLIFE800

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Posted 15 February 2020 - 12:18 PM

2016 800 etec XRS. PTO side piston melted down at 13,000 miles. Stator coil went out and from what the mechanic told me the ECM tries to compensate and dumps bunch of voltage in the wrong area and causes the injector to malfunction. Got a new stator new motor under warranty and everything's fine. No injector service at all! It did cause the ECM to malfunction only in that the temperature digital readout would not work otherwise it worked fine. Was glad to get a new ECM to! All this he told me it was due to the stator failure. You may be lucky and the fact that you need to replace the stator now anyway. I would consider while the stator is out injecting some isoflex Grease into one of the holes. This lubes the mag side bearing. Something I'm going to do this year on my crate motor. I believe the only reason I got 13,000 miles out of my last motor is every 2000 I greased the PTO bearing with isoflex.Good luck

Edited by DOOLIFE800, 15 February 2020 - 12:24 PM.


#14 A1cnc

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Posted 17 February 2020 - 04:44 PM

Are you guys actually just putting a top end on an engine after that kind of carnage?

 

I would worry about the bottom end every time I started it after seeing the mess that was in there.


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#15 It'sThe"Z"

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Posted 17 February 2020 - 07:42 PM

Are you guys actually just putting a top end on an engine after that kind of carnage?

 

I would worry about the bottom end every time I started it after seeing the mess that was in there.

 

I'm gonna end up doing a full rebuild, likely with an MCB Performance rebuilt crank. There's too much crap in the bottom end on the affected side for me to trust those bearings to last very long. 

 

2016 800 etec XRS. PTO side piston melted down at 13,000 miles. Stator coil went out and from what the mechanic told me the ECM tries to compensate and dumps bunch of voltage in the wrong area and causes the injector to malfunction. Got a new stator new motor under warranty and everything's fine. No injector service at all! It did cause the ECM to malfunction only in that the temperature digital readout would not work otherwise it worked fine. Was glad to get a new ECM to! All this he told me it was due to the stator failure. You may be lucky and the fact that you need to replace the stator now anyway. I would consider while the stator is out injecting some isoflex Grease into one of the holes. This lubes the mag side bearing. Something I'm going to do this year on my crate motor. I believe the only reason I got 13,000 miles out of my last motor is every 2000 I greased the PTO bearing with isoflex.Good luck

 

What condition was your stator in? Mine doesn't really have any visible signs of damage. Not really discolored from heat, nor does any of the coating appear to be damaged or missing. I still plan on replacing it as I it's still a potential cause and it's not all that expensive in the big picture. I'll also still be sending the injectors out for cleaning and flow testing. If I'm going to rebuild this thing ground up, I may as well give it the best chances for survival.  







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