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Weak 850 or Strong 800s

850 800 Etec Slow 850 Fast 800 Fast Enduro

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#31 razer

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Posted 04 December 2019 - 06:34 PM

660 ain't really a race



#32 npickle12

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Posted 04 December 2019 - 07:06 PM

Sounds you like you guys some dud 8 hundo's, There's 850's beating Sidewinders in 660ft right out of the box.


Haha. Only because the spinegrinder can’t put all the power down.

#33 xtreme747

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Posted 04 December 2019 - 08:04 PM

I have never been beat by an 800 with my 19 . But it’s the mid range that is the 850 claim to fame . I have had 800s and it was too much all or nothing when it came to the throttle. One promise BRP actually came through with on this sled is the 4 stroke like power . Whether it be from the P-drive or the motor itself ..... it is a much more complete package regardless of who wins the race . As important as racing is sometimes , the fact remains that if an 800 did spank me I wouldn’t even want to try it out . I seriously don’t trade people on the trail to try other sleds because I don’t want to give up seat time on my own . For what it’s worth .

#34 Daag44

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Posted 04 December 2019 - 09:35 PM

The 850 is not a lemon, it is what it is.  Variability is always a factor but in the end I don't subscribe to the theory of miracle sleds and complete dogs.  Machine tolerances are far to precise these days for widespread differences.  In more cases it is environmental conditions, difference in sled setup, track selection, rider ability, the list is endless.  In this case as others have already stated track makes a massive difference and the shift to off trail leaning tracks, i.e. 1.5" lugs and larger just provides more disappointment for on trail use when the effect is scrubbing off top end speed.  Want larger lugs?  Accept that you will trade top end performance for off trail capability.

 

Also, my experience with the 800 is with a 2013 and a 2016.  The 16' was a big improvement in overall performance from the 13'.  Don't ask me what BRP did in the 2015 and later 800's but they all ran so much better than any 800's prior to that.  As has also already been stated the 850 was not designed to deliver a massive top end gain with that additional 10HP.  It was meant to deliver better performance across a wider mid-range band which is where the 800 was not a great performer.  The 850 completely solved the mid-range lag or laziness for lack of a better term.  The G4 chassis brings a lot to the table in the handling department.  It is a big improvement overall and combined with the new 850 motor has been an overwhelming success for Doo with most everyone that has tried them.  Not many dislike them.

 

Good post! Just a note on the variability. The miracle sleds vs complete dogs is quite real. None of it seems believable until you follow certain guys on DooTalk and take every opportunity you get to measure and find the variability that they talk about. This is often engine related because it is easier to measure, but there is so much going with sleds like the things you mentioned. Just imagine a whole lot more.


Edited by Daag44, 04 December 2019 - 09:47 PM.

Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R Turbo?
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Diagnoses
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Seafoam for E-TEC injectors
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
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Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#35 contigo

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Posted 05 December 2019 - 12:04 AM

my 2019 XRS 850 doenst have the top end of my 2010 800R Carb but neither did any 800 etec but the low and mid rocks dont ride to many places to get over 110 mph anyway

yes the 800 ptek has more on top than the 850



#36 Snowpull850

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Posted 05 December 2019 - 05:11 AM

The data sheets I seen posted by guys like jeb or others the 850 is faster then a machz so I think your test was flawed with the cobra. The 660ft races with 850s beating sidewinders is impressive.

#37 slw2007

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Posted 05 December 2019 - 07:50 AM

Why is the 850 beating a sidewinder in 660 ft impressive? 850 is lighter and doesn't have turbo lag. I run with a programmed Arctic cat turbo and he can't touch any of our 2 strokes in a short race across a field but passes us like we are sitting still top end across a lake.

 

The variable in power output between identical engines is absolutely real. When we first bought our Mach Z we ran a radar contest which was probably 1000' or so in North Bay. Right out of the box our sled took first place and the guys at the contest couldn't believe the numbers we were getting and told us they have been playing with them all day and coudn't touch our numbers. This was with a 200+ lb rider.

 

Back to the original topic. THE FACT IS THAT OUR 850 WITH THE 1.6 is SLOOOWWWWW. As I said the Enduro eats it up everywhere in the RPM range. Its not by a small margin either. I can buy into the track slows you down somewhat but not this much. I'll have to post some videos so that all you guys defending the 850 can watch it get eaten up by a Mach and an Enduro! 

 

Id love to put it up against some other 850's so if theres any guys riding in NY or UP this winter let me know  :D


Edited by slw2007, 05 December 2019 - 07:51 AM.

2005 Mach Z 1000

2013 MXZ TNT 800

2015 MXZ X 800

2016 Renegade Enduro 800

2019 MXZ X 850


#38 harrisb

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Posted 05 December 2019 - 08:13 AM

So who wants to buy my ice cobra 1.6 ;(



#39 Gin la pine

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Posted 05 December 2019 - 08:15 AM

I dont believe its in the engine...thats the part i believe is the most common in between them all ...its everything around it assembled by employees that know jack "edit for bad language" about sled thats not even....



#40 Json

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Posted 05 December 2019 - 08:57 AM

I have a 850 w/ 1.6 IC and has had it to 191km/h speedo.


Edited by Json, 05 December 2019 - 08:57 AM.


#41 NB-REV800X

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Posted 05 December 2019 - 10:37 AM

hopefully the new Ice ripper 1.5 is not that bad.  my 17 850X  Renny 1.25 was a rocket right out of the box. 



#42 800PTEK

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Posted 05 December 2019 - 04:04 PM

I have a 850 w/ 1.6 IC and has had it to 191km/h speedo.

Did you change gearing and if so to what?

 

Mine hits between 160-165km/h.



#43 Donseye

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Posted 05 December 2019 - 05:11 PM

I have a 850 w/ 1.6 IC and has had it to 191km/h speedo.

That's over 118 mph on GPS....could be one of the fastest 850's , did you change gears? 



#44 lakerunner

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Posted 05 December 2019 - 05:33 PM

That's over 118 mph on GPS....could be one of the fastest 850's , did you change gears? 

 

I think he said that was speedo so take off 5mph or so...



#45 xtreme747

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Posted 05 December 2019 - 11:51 PM

Track slip ...





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: 850, 800, Etec, Slow 850, Fast 800, Fast Enduro

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