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Too much oil used

850 oil oil pump ecm Summit

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#1 eternalwinter

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Posted 25 November 2019 - 12:53 PM

I posted this in the Summit side too...  So, I have a 2019 Summit 850 X.  Rode it about 950 miles last season without issue one until it started smoking like we were fogging for mosquitos.  It was strange though, start up in the mornings letting it warm up it looked normal with no extra smokiness but after running for a bit, stop, shut down for a couple of minutes or 10 and on start up it would just billow the smoke out.  Start running and it would clear up.  Started tracking the oil use and it was about 26:1.  Checked it twice during basic trail rides and it stayed about the same.  Took it to the dealer, they changed the oil pump, got it back with the same results.  Took it back, they tested everything from end to end and BRP told them to change the ECM.  Did that but still smoking and using an excessive amount of oil.  I have another 850 that is still in break in mode that doesn't smoke this much and uses less oil.  Any ideas out there?  Thanks.



#2 dooCATracer08

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Posted 25 November 2019 - 02:45 PM

if hard on the throttle 26:1 seems about right, they are made to burn at 32:1, doesn't explain why it fogs maybe a stuck check valve and oil runs in after shut-off


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#3 slo13zx3

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Posted 25 November 2019 - 04:17 PM

the water pump gear has oil maybe bad seal there and leaking inside engine 



#4 TTA89

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Posted 25 November 2019 - 04:39 PM

Take video and then bring it back to the dealer?


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#5 mike0chek

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Posted 25 November 2019 - 04:50 PM

another member on here was saying he has been running 2 brand new 2020 850's and one is using alot more oil than the other.  something strange going on here....



#6 eternalwinter

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Posted 25 November 2019 - 06:16 PM

if hard on the throttle 26:1 seems about right, they are made to burn at 32:1, doesn't explain why it fogs maybe a stuck check valve and oil runs in after shut-off

Unfortunately when this started presenting itself was towards the end of our lack luster snow season last spring and all the rides I tracked were trail rides that were mid throttle cruising or lower for the most part.  I am kind of leaning towards the check valve idea but I was told those were checked by the dealer before the changed the ECM...  Have to call them tomorrow...



#7 eternalwinter

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Posted 25 November 2019 - 06:17 PM

the water pump gear has oil maybe bad seal there and leaking inside engine 

Ya, thought about that too.  Supposedly tested fine by dealer...



#8 Fr0st

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Posted 25 November 2019 - 08:23 PM

Rave gasket leaking oil where it shouldn't?

#9 ctdls

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Posted 26 November 2019 - 08:57 AM

You also have center crank seals.

 

The symptom that maybe confusing is the normal smoke when cold. When you shut off hot you say it smokes upon restart & it clears, so if you shut off hot & it's parked until cold I would think it should still smoke. I can see that description leading down the path of ECU & oil pump. If the oil consumption is higher than it should be @ all times & being that the ECU & oil pump have been replaced sounds like a mechanical issue & they are many things to check.

 

Being the smoke is prevalent hot that might suggest testing all the mechanical items when cold may not show the problem. An example the oil sitting in the center crank area is cold, seal is in early stages of failure....may not leak even under pressure.

 

A careful plug reading would help narrow it down to cylinder.

 

What I don't know with the new electronic oil pump is if oil will gravity feed, I'm guessing it won't.....that's maybe a reason the cold start is normal.



#10 eternalwinter

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Posted 26 November 2019 - 10:16 PM

So, it's back at the dealer.... I spent yesterday afternoon swapping pipe sensor, can sensor, MATS sensor, swapping stock can for stock can from one sled to the other.  No changes with any of it.  I did notice that when it was cold it doesn't do the smokey smokey until several minutes into the warm up cycle.  Once it's warm it will do it right away upon restart.  I started to wonder if it's a two problem problem as the coolant bottle was lower than when I picked it up from the dealer last Sunday.  Pressure tested the coolant system per the shop manual and it did drop about 6 psi over 40 minutes.  Relieved the pressure and the coolant was 2" lower in the bottle than when I started the test.  Did the test again for 15 min and level was another 1/2" lower....  On the oil side, the tank went down about 3/8" in the 10-12 min of off and on idle time while switching parts.  Anyway, was at the dealers door this morning at 9 to give it back...  See what they find...  Thanks for all the ideas.  I'll report back if anything is discerned.



#11 sledhead_24_7

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Posted 27 November 2019 - 10:00 AM

Best of luck. These types of gremlins are difficult to find and fix for sure.

2019 Summit X G4 850 E-tec 175"

2018 Summit X G4 850 E-tec 175"

2017 Summit X G4 850 E-tec 165"

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2012 Polaris Pro RMK 800 "166"
2011 Summit X 800R E-Tec 163"
2009 Summit X 800R "166"
2008 Summit X 800R "166"
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2006 Summit X 800 H.O. 151"
2005 Polaris RMK 900 151" Big OOPS
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2002 Summit X 800 144"
2001 Summit standard 144"
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#12 Daag44

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Posted 27 November 2019 - 09:24 PM

What level was the oil tank throughout these episodes?


Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R Turbo?
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Diagnoses
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Seafoam for E-TEC injectors
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#13 keithward

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Posted 28 November 2019 - 12:32 AM

This thread has me thinking. I have a 2019 Summit 850 and toward the end of last season started running very rich and I always thought it used a lot of oil (significantly more than other skidoo and Polaris sleds I have owned).

Getting it ready to ride this season and on rides last season I noticed it is smoking more than the other 2018/19’s in the group.

Keep us posted. I am going to start looking into mine a little deeper.




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#14 ctdls

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Posted 28 November 2019 - 08:58 AM

  On the oil side, the tank went down about 3/8" in the 10-12 min of off and on idle time while switching parts.

 

 

I would carefully go back & verify this, mark the tank level before & after. Make sure the sled is in the same level plan before & after. If it is true should be easy identify the culprit.

 

As far as your coolant levels I don't see any connection to the oil unless you have had to add. It's normal for the level to change as the system develops heat & pressure....release the pressure & the level will return to normal.

 

By chance have you checked to see if pressure is building in the oil tank?



#15 Daag44

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Posted 28 November 2019 - 09:41 PM

This thread has me thinking. I have a 2019 Summit 850 and toward the end of last season started running very rich and I always thought it used a lot of oil (significantly more than other skidoo and Polaris sleds I have owned).

Getting it ready to ride this season and on rides last season I noticed it is smoking more than the other 2018/19’s in the group.

Keep us posted. I am going to start looking into mine a little deeper.




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That is a great idea. I keep hoping more people will keep tabs of their fuel vs oil usage over miles ridden to share with other owners. Only oil usage will get you nowhere fast. Folks like yourself have been doing the same since pretty much the time two strokes began with oil injection, so this is a very old subject. The cool part for the 850 is that there are many others before you who have shared their concerns and findings, so you are far from being alone in this. It is the largest fuel/oil consumption discussion that I have seen in the history of sleds, so it has grown much greater than individual opinions of what sled takes more or less and why. If you stay tuned to the many 850 owners who keep sharing their results, you won't be held down by the biased ones.


Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R Turbo?
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Diagnoses
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Seafoam for E-TEC injectors
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix






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