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Anyone an expert on the 600SDI engines?


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#61 FlavorDave

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Posted 02 April 2019 - 12:08 PM

The 2020's haven't even come out yet. Best to contact Jeff@CanDoo.

I see that you have a generous offer on the table. That is a priceless one that I would jump on in a heartbeat!


I certainly will call about the CanDoo. If it will work for both the SDI and the new 2020s I’ll spend the money.

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#62 Gordo427

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Posted 02 April 2019 - 09:09 PM

Daag curious why did you say you don’t like hooking up your candoopro. Also I thought with condopro you can turn injectors off on or something like that

Edited by Gordo427, 02 April 2019 - 09:11 PM.


#63 codooster

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Posted 03 April 2019 - 12:22 AM

I’m near Salem, Oregon. Thanks so much for the offer. How close are you to Oregon?

600SDI aren’t as popular out west. Most everything I see from that era are 800Rs and PTEK.

I'm in Sunriver

Lots of snow left up here.  


Edited by codooster, 03 April 2019 - 12:26 AM.


#64 Daag44

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Posted 03 April 2019 - 12:29 AM

Daag curious why did you say you don’t like hooking up your candoopro. Also I thought with condopro you can turn injectors off on or something like that

 

Plugging the CanDoo in itself with just the BUDS connector is not a problem as long as I can use the battery on the sled. If I need to use the power supply wire harness with the two alligator clips then this can cause a spark. Sparks and the electrical don't get along. And this isn't isolated to the SDI either. I haven't found anything on this, so after burning component after component from accidental shorts this lead me to do an Internet search and finding the subject was well covered in jump starting articles that gave early SAABs and BMWs as examples since the early EFI systems weren't as robust. I can say the same for the SDI. I am going off of memory with the two makes, so I think those were the cars. Maybe it was Audi or Mercedes, someone reading this will know. I lost those links a long time ago, but I remember well the cautions and reasons. The cool thing is I no longer need to read any article or shop manual to understand the effects lol

 

The other reason for my apprehension is writing any changes to the ECM. A TPS reset or timing adjustment is probably low risk, but a software/calibration upload can be a real concern with a poor connection or weak battery. I normally remove the F8 headlight fuse. Incidentally having the CanDoo connected with the headlights on is a good way to do a load test. The voltage at the battery needs to remain at 12.5 Vdc or higher if I remember correctly. I do the benchmark with a brand new battery then jot it down and forget lol

 

You may or may not have ordered this harness with your kit as it is an accessory.


Edited by Daag44, 03 April 2019 - 12:31 AM.

Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R Turbo?
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Diagnoses
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#65 FlavorDave

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Posted 03 April 2019 - 09:04 AM

I'm in Sunriver
Lots of snow left up here.


Are you the guy with the rentals at Bachelor? If so, my buddy John bought one of your 550 Summits.

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#66 codooster

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Posted 03 April 2019 - 09:36 AM

Are you the guy with the rentals at Bachelor? If so, my buddy John bought one of your 550 Summits.

I work on most all the rentals in the area but am located in Sunriver, not up at the sno-park.



#67 FlavorDave

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Posted 03 April 2019 - 02:40 PM

UPDATE:

Just had the following text exchange with the service manager:

Manager: “Dave, at this time I have an ECU and regulator on order for your SkiDoo. Tested all connections and grounds. Tech was able to get it going but only on one cylinder like when you dropped it off. Tech suspects Ecu/regulator were factors in what caused the damage in the first place.”

Me: “The ring and land broke in that cylinder. I did not see any evidence of a fuel or timing issue. It was running on both cylinders before, but just not idling, correct? “

Manager: “It fires on both but only stays running on one”


If it fires on both is there any way the ECU is fried? I think they’re completely lost and are throwing parts at it. I’m about ready to go get my sled and figure it out myself...

Edited by FlavorDave, 03 April 2019 - 02:41 PM.

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#68 Expeditionxu

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Posted 03 April 2019 - 02:45 PM

If a tech is having difficulty with a buds computer I don't see you doing it in your garage . Imho. Cheers

#69 FlavorDave

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Posted 03 April 2019 - 02:55 PM

Does anyone else see a fuel or timing issue here?? I would expect a burnt or holed piston. All I see here is ring/land damage. The cylinder (which I didn't snap a photo of) only had a tiny scratch down low. If I were doing pistons/rings, I wouldn't even have run a hone through it. The PTO side had 0 psi when it was checked in West Yellowstone. Is this any kind of damage caused by a faulty ECU or regulator??

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Edited by FlavorDave, 03 April 2019 - 02:58 PM.

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#70 FlavorDave

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Posted 03 April 2019 - 03:01 PM

If a tech is having difficulty with a buds computer I don't see you doing it in your garage . Imho. Cheers

 

I'd probably make the three hour drive and have codooster hook it up to his CanDoo. He and Daag seem to know a heck of a lot more than these "master techs" at this juncture. 

 

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#71 Daag44

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Posted 03 April 2019 - 03:34 PM

UPDATE:

Just had the following text exchange with the service manager:

Manager: “Dave, at this time I have an ECU and regulator on order for your SkiDoo. Tested all connections and grounds. Tech was able to get it going but only on one cylinder like when you dropped it off. Tech suspects Ecu/regulator were factors in what caused the damage in the first place.

Me: “The ring and land broke in that cylinder. I did not see any evidence of a fuel or timing issue. It was running on both cylinders before, but just not idling, correct? “

Manager: “It fires on both but only stays running on one”


If it fires on both is there any way the ECU is fried? I think they’re completely lost and are throwing parts at it. I’m about ready to go get my sled and figure it out myself...


Dave, on the bolt listen to your gut. You have my experience which is first hand from a Certified BRP Tech. Unfortunately I can only give you a 70% chance that memory is correct that the tech had to use an earlier version of BUDS. I distinctly remember his computer having different versions and he did load more than one. The reason I remember is that I knew an old version of BUDS was needed to load the earliest version of the 2005 calibration file for the 2005 1000 SDI. He used a later version to connect to my 07 sled, but I did notice that he had the older version to load the 05 map. Very few certified techs know this let alone remember, and I bet few people at BRP would remember other than the BRP 1000 SDI enthusiast which they still exist. A certified BRP dealer tech and BRP tech/engineer are two different levels. These guys and gals out in BRP land are brains. Some certified techs are just as able, but those who dug into the SDI are now few and far in between.

 

Someone like Codooster has not only first hand experience, but his experience with the SDI is recent and constant. I can hold my own because I have had to work hard at it and I have excellent resources. But Codooster is certainly several levels above me with his level experience. Like I mentioned yesterday, his offer was unbelievably cool and priceless. That is the kind of offer that you jump for with both feet lol  You are lucky, I've never gotten such an invite!

 

On the red bolded part, did you give consent and how much is this costing you?

 

 

FlavorDave,
Where are you located? I have a fleet of 600 SDIs and a candoo at my disposal as well as spare ECUs and every sensor on the sled. I'd be happy to help a dootalker out.

 

The 2020's haven't even come out yet. Best to contact Jeff@CanDoo.

I see that you have a generous offer on the table. That is a priceless one that I would jump on in a heartbeat!


Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R Turbo?
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Diagnoses
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#72 Gordo427

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Posted 03 April 2019 - 03:49 PM

I would think the dealer is checking for spark on both cylinders sounds like there assuming easy enough to check. I though I read long time ago where maybe trippy did a tps with a meter I could be wrong. Daag does the candoopro have issues hooking up to older sleds line the buds

#73 FlavorDave

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Posted 03 April 2019 - 03:59 PM

Dave, on the bolt listen to your gut. You have my experience which is first hand from a Certified BRP Tech. Unfortunately I can only give you a 70% chance that memory is correct that the tech had to use an earlier version of BUDS. I distinctly remember his computer having different versions and he did load more than one. The reason I remember is that I knew an old version of BUDS was needed to load the earliest version of the 2005 calibration file for the 2005 1000 SDI. He used a later version to connect to my 07 sled, but I did notice that he had the older version to load the 05 map. Very few certified techs know this let alone remember, and I bet few people at BRP would remember other than the BRP 1000 SDI enthusiast which they still exist. A certified BRP dealer tech and BRP tech/engineer are two different levels. These guys and gals out in BRP land are brains. Some certified techs are just as able, but those who dug into the SDI are now few and far in between.

Someone like Codooster has not only first hand experience, but his experience with the SDI is recent and constant. I can hold my own because I have had to work hard at it and I have excellent resources. But Codooster is certainly several levels above me with his level experience. Like I mentioned yesterday, his offer was unbelievably cool and priceless. That is the kind of offer that you jump for with both feet lol You are lucky, I've never gotten such an invite!

On the red bolded part, did you give consent and how much is this costing you?


I’ve not consented to anything else st this point. What I posted it a copy/paste of the text exchange from today.

Does that piston and ring damage look like anything caused by the ECU or voltage regulator??

Harbor Freight is my Sponsor. 


#74 Daag44

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Posted 03 April 2019 - 04:12 PM

I would think the dealer is checking for spark on both cylinders sounds like there assuming easy enough to check. I though I read long time ago where maybe trippy did a tps with a meter I could be wrong. Daag does the candoopro have issues hooking up to older sleds line the buds

 

I haven't had a problem connecting from MY2004 to MY2007 inclusively. The only trouble I know of is to write the data for a ignition timing change on the MY2004, but I replied to Jeff@CanDoo on DooTalk with the workaround. He never replied to me, but I did remind him a month ago when it was time to renew my yearly license. That is when he told me what was coming with further support for the ETECs to program the injectors. This is huge for the ETECs as it will allow us to adjust the problem ones with different injector coefficients. By the way it has already been done, however the shop that did this burnt down in the winter of 2018. Last I checked they hadn't rebuilt their ETEC test bench, but this is something I would like to bring forward to DooTalk. There are other things that can be done, but this requires BUDS with a Megatech license. Incidentally the SDI can be heavily and easily tweaked for high performance.


Edited by Daag44, 03 April 2019 - 04:13 PM.

Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R Turbo?
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Diagnoses
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#75 FlavorDave

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Posted 03 April 2019 - 04:57 PM

I haven't had a problem connecting from MY2004 to MY2007 inclusively. The only trouble I know of is to write the data for a ignition timing change on the MY2004, but I replied to Jeff@CanDoo on DooTalk with the workaround. He never replied to me, but I did remind him a month ago when it was time to renew my yearly license. That is when he told me what was coming with further support for the ETECs to program the injectors. This is huge for the ETECs as it will allow us to adjust the problem ones with different injector coefficients. By the way it has already been done, however the shop that did this burnt down in the winter of 2018. Last I checked they hadn't rebuilt their ETEC test bench, but this is something I would like to bring forward to DooTalk. There are other things that can be done, but this requires BUDS with a Megatech license. Incidentally the SDI can be heavily and easily tweaked for high performance.

 

This is good news. If this has the abilities you suggest, I'll probably buy one even just for the 2020s.

 

I'm still trying to figure out how the ECU or regulator caused the ring/land to break. If anything, that piston looks like it was running a wee bit rich. Also, if it fires on both but then drops one cylinder, could this be some sort of "limp mode" that's still thinking the PTO side isn't right?? Is there a code that needs cleared before it continues to run on both holes?? Does the SDI even do this?? Like shut down the offending cylinder because the sensors aren't sensing proper combustion so the ECU shuts down the offending cylinder?? Does that make sense?


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