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2009 Summit X 800R shuts down unexpectedly (after 3-4 min)


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#1 MescaBug

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Posted 15 March 2019 - 07:26 PM

I do hope you guys will be able to help me out. 800R pull start (no electric start, no battery).

 

I'm having a weird problem with my sled. It shuts down by itself, for no apparent reason. No beeps, no warnings, it just dies. And the gauges dont go to zero. They show the last reading.

 

It idles great. Choke until RPM goes down, flip choke off, idles around 1700-1800rpm, headlights, tailights working. I do a quick ride around the yard, 3-4 minutes, RER works fine, and then it dies. Funny thing, it can idle for 10 min and it doesnt dies....

 

- Stator shows +-6.35 at all yellow leads

- Brand new coil, spark plugs, plug wires (coil shows 0.6 between primary and 25 between wires)

- Brand new fuel pump

- Brand new top end

- Cleaned carbs

 

I'm at a loss. If it was overheating, I would get a warning on the gauge cluster. Cooler is not hot to the touch, just warm. I have to wait a while before I can start it again, and it would do the exact same thing. Run for a little while, and then dies. If I hold the throttle when pulling, it either backfire or run for like a second and die.

 

Please throw some ideas. I've been chasing this problem for a month. I thought it was the coil. They go bad when they get hot. Nope... Fuel pump? Nope...

 

Any help/ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Thx

 

 



#2 Daag44

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 02:18 AM

If you're off-trail, remove the 15A fuse for the headlights and see if the problem disappears.

 

If on trail you can disconnect one of the two headlights. One light is needed for oncoming sleds to see you even in daylight.

 

I know you have a summit, but most owners have a decent amount of trail to reach their play pens.


Edited by Daag44, 17 March 2019 - 02:54 AM.

Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R P-TEK Electrical Troubleshooting #1 and #2 
800R Turbo
850 Center Oil line for coolant pump melted
850 Main Oil line caught fire #1 and #2
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's and Ronn's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
Crankshaft runout - maximum allowable specs 
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Electrical - ECM drivers for Ignition Coils and E-TEC injectors 
Electrical - Diagnoses of a failed ECM
Electrical - 30A Battery Charging Fuse Socket Diagnoses and Relay
Electrical - Relay Coil Wine
Electrical - Relay Testing
Electrical - Battery Charging Relay Diagnostic 
Electrical - Troubleshooting with BRP video 
Electrical - Solder vs Crimp
Electrical - Diagram for Fanners on page 3
Engine Break-In 
Engine Weight 
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Electric Start troubleshooting
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC eRAVE position code recurring
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
E-TEC Voltage Rectifier Regulator troubleshooting
E-TEC Power Fades are not normal and can be fixed
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 Steering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Longevity - 800R E-TEC 
Mikuni o-ring for carb float assembly - Arctic Cat part# 6505-875 or from Amazon and eBay
Muffler Red Hot
Off-trail riding for flatlanders
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pictures - How to post with the correct orientation
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Power Loss - How to diagnose in the field
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Seafoam for E-TEC injectors
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Spark Plugs cracked
Squish - The limit
Squish - A discussion on head design
Stator and Relay Diagnostic 
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator Removal on page 3
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#3 Flemingo

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 02:36 AM

Been chasing an electrical problem after doing my top end on my 2008 Summit. Turns out it is a bad stator even though it passes the service manual stator test. I had a situation where I had the engine at full throttle, where the coil is using the most electricity and my engine just shut off. What is happening in my situation and I also believe in yours, is the stator heats up (in your case after 4 minutes of run time) when the stator heats up it doesn’t generate enough power. If you remove the headlight fuse or disconnect a headlight like daag suggested, it will remove load off of the electrical system so the engine has enough electricity to run correctly.


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#4 MescaBug

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 07:05 AM

Will do the headlight test.

And also check the stator AC after it shuts down. Voltage should be lower.

Everything else is brand new. If it was a faulty ground or a short in the wiring, the problem would be intermittent.

It behaves the same every time. A component is failing. From what I read, it sounds like the stator is going kaput.

Edited by MescaBug, 17 March 2019 - 07:06 AM.


#5 MescaBug

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Posted 18 March 2019 - 01:18 PM

Update;

 

Couldnt test the stator when it shuts down. It starts and shuts down after 10-15 sec now... I tested continuity between trigger coils wires: White/Blue and Yellow/Blue. Both shows OL (open circuit)....

 

I have very weak spark. Using an inline tester, the light just barely lights up when cranking. Unhooking the headlights didnt make any difference.

 

Problem seems to be the pickup coils. But I'm surprised it starts anyway since both are reading OL.


Edited by MescaBug, 18 March 2019 - 02:19 PM.


#6 wwracer

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Posted 18 March 2019 - 09:41 PM

Make sure your probes are making good contact on the P/U coil plug, pretty easy to get a false OL reading. I use a couple of 18 ga. brads inserted into the female ends to get a good read. Like others I'm also leaning towards the stator

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#7 MescaBug

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 07:36 AM

My bad! They both read 0.215, which is within specs. And they read the same at the ECM. Like said above, the probes didnt reach deep enough. I talked to RM Stator yesterday, they told me it sounds like the stator is going bad.

 

Now if I can get the flywheel off... It wont budge. I use an harmonic balancer puller.



#8 MescaBug

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 08:17 AM

Video of the spark. Seems very weak to me?

https://www.youtube.com/4INe4JnJx6s


Edited by MescaBug, 19 March 2019 - 08:31 AM.


#9 Flemingo

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    Grip-n-Rip S Mod Brace and Upper A-arm Braces
    Bronze Oillite A-Arm Bushings
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    Stator Kev Rewound OEM Stator
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Posted 19 March 2019 - 08:43 AM

My bad! They both read 0.215, which is within specs. And they read the same at the ECM. Like said above, the probes didnt reach deep enough. I talked to RM Stator yesterday, they told me it sounds like the stator is going bad.

Now if I can get the flywheel off... It wont budge. I use an harmonic balancer puller.

I heated the flywheel nut before taking it off and some of that heat transferred to the flywheel. Maybe a little heat with a torch will help you out.


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Edited by Flemingo, 19 March 2019 - 09:07 AM.


#10 wwracer

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 09:59 AM

Yeah, actually a lot of heat, and a sharp rap with a mallet. Times like this the factory puller is worth every nickel


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#11 MescaBug

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 12:54 PM

So I got the flywheel out. Heat and a few sharp hit, and bang, popped out.

 

But now the stator is stuck in there. I'll try a little heat and see if I can get it to budge. I wonder how I'm gonna get the wires thru that grommet......especially if there is a zip-tie holding the harnesses together. 

 

Oh my... What a nightmare....



#12 curt234

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 01:23 PM

Make sure your throttle position sensor plug isn’t loose.

#13 Daag44

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 01:45 PM

Video of the spark. Seems very weak to me?

https://www.youtube.com/4INe4JnJx6s


The spark is weak because it is jumping further along the center electrode. Try another video with a new plug - closer if possible. If you don't have a new plug then clean the electrode with a brush and carb cleaner.

Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R P-TEK Electrical Troubleshooting #1 and #2 
800R Turbo
850 Center Oil line for coolant pump melted
850 Main Oil line caught fire #1 and #2
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's and Ronn's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
Crankshaft runout - maximum allowable specs 
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Electrical - ECM drivers for Ignition Coils and E-TEC injectors 
Electrical - Diagnoses of a failed ECM
Electrical - 30A Battery Charging Fuse Socket Diagnoses and Relay
Electrical - Relay Coil Wine
Electrical - Relay Testing
Electrical - Battery Charging Relay Diagnostic 
Electrical - Troubleshooting with BRP video 
Electrical - Solder vs Crimp
Electrical - Diagram for Fanners on page 3
Engine Break-In 
Engine Weight 
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Electric Start troubleshooting
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC eRAVE position code recurring
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
E-TEC Voltage Rectifier Regulator troubleshooting
E-TEC Power Fades are not normal and can be fixed
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 Steering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Longevity - 800R E-TEC 
Mikuni o-ring for carb float assembly - Arctic Cat part# 6505-875 or from Amazon and eBay
Muffler Red Hot
Off-trail riding for flatlanders
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pictures - How to post with the correct orientation
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Power Loss - How to diagnose in the field
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Seafoam for E-TEC injectors
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Spark Plugs cracked
Squish - The limit
Squish - A discussion on head design
Stator and Relay Diagnostic 
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator Removal on page 3
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#14 Daag44

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 01:58 PM

So I got the flywheel out. Heat and a few sharp hit, and bang, popped out.
 
But now the stator is stuck in there. I'll try a little heat and see if I can get it to budge. I wonder how I'm gonna get the wires thru that grommet......especially if there is a zip-tie holding the harnesses together. 
 
Oh my... What a nightmare....


I little heat should do it. I've never tested the strength of the stator core, but I imagine is has enough strength for a little persuasion.


Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R P-TEK Electrical Troubleshooting #1 and #2 
800R Turbo
850 Center Oil line for coolant pump melted
850 Main Oil line caught fire #1 and #2
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's and Ronn's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
Crankshaft runout - maximum allowable specs 
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Electrical - ECM drivers for Ignition Coils and E-TEC injectors 
Electrical - Diagnoses of a failed ECM
Electrical - 30A Battery Charging Fuse Socket Diagnoses and Relay
Electrical - Relay Coil Wine
Electrical - Relay Testing
Electrical - Battery Charging Relay Diagnostic 
Electrical - Troubleshooting with BRP video 
Electrical - Solder vs Crimp
Electrical - Diagram for Fanners on page 3
Engine Break-In 
Engine Weight 
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Electric Start troubleshooting
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC eRAVE position code recurring
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
E-TEC Voltage Rectifier Regulator troubleshooting
E-TEC Power Fades are not normal and can be fixed
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 Steering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Longevity - 800R E-TEC 
Mikuni o-ring for carb float assembly - Arctic Cat part# 6505-875 or from Amazon and eBay
Muffler Red Hot
Off-trail riding for flatlanders
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pictures - How to post with the correct orientation
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Power Loss - How to diagnose in the field
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Seafoam for E-TEC injectors
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Spark Plugs cracked
Squish - The limit
Squish - A discussion on head design
Stator and Relay Diagnostic 
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator Removal on page 3
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#15 MescaBug

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 02:03 PM

I little heat should do it. I've never tested the strength of the stator core, but I imagine is has enough strength for a little persuasion.


My thoughts as well. Even if it test good, I’ll probably replace it anyway. Why go thru all that pain to install a 10 years old stator...

As for the wiring, I’m thinking about cutting the wires, and solder them back together. I dont think I will be able to get it all out thru the grommet. I cant reach the zip-tie.


Edited by MescaBug, 19 March 2019 - 02:04 PM.





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