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Electrical burning smell


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#61 bigmachdaddy

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 11:57 AM

eTec stators as a general rule, suck. Just buy a cheapo SPI a third of the price as new and performs pretty much as well as the Doo piece

Have you used SPI with good success?

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#62 wwracer

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 06:08 PM

The ecm junk also?

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Whoops too much Tramadal this morning  :wacko:  meant stator, I've used one on my 13 XM, worked great for a couple of years till the sled got totaled


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#63 bigmachdaddy

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 06:55 PM

Whoops too much Tramadal this morning :wacko: meant stator, I've used one on my 13 XM, worked great for a couple of years till the sled got totaled

Everyone had those mornings Where can i get an SPI one? Would one even bother with a used one.... I don't plan on selling the sled... Thankd

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#64 Judge64

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 07:04 PM

Everyone had those mornings Where can i get an SPI one? Would one even bother with a used one.... I don't plan on selling the sled... Thankd

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I wouldn't go with a used one..... for the hassle of replacing it you are safer with new and have a better chance of it lasting longer.



#65 bigmachdaddy

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 09:03 PM

Well I got it all apart.... Toasty . I am wondering what the brownish oily residue is.. I will post pics.... I thought maybe it's from the melting of the stator windings, the coating that encapsulates the windings.. Also wondering what that black strip is to the left of the crank... The flywheel looks to have melted plastic on it that does seem to come off with a little Scotch Brite... Hopefully no other parts need to be replaced.... Let me know what you guys think. 244ae62f1e76cd874676a236e16c582e.jpg0bfccf8dccbc7e8b0c24cb3c0d4a3f24.jpge6cffc9e51109165cc98d0a50d226c0a.jpge4e99802e5a7aadca97376ce4ab31261.jpg1fcc96a69025115416e4c80dcc576002.jpg367231c5f9d9a501cc707714716b61fe.jpg

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#66 Thumb2bar

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Posted 15 March 2019 - 06:47 AM

It is part of the goop to isolate the pick up connections.

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#67 Daag44

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Posted 15 March 2019 - 07:05 AM

Nice work! Picture quality is fantastic!
 
420 665 435     Stator                          $644.99 CAD
420 201 360     Adhesive Pad                  $1.68 CAD
420 876 081     Magneto Puller Ring
 
Loctite 5910
Loctite 243
 
I can no longer find the Magneto Puller Ring from C&T PowerSports. That is a problem since the one from OEM requires a 30mm socket machined to 40mm which is a real PITA. I have one from C&T that fits a large 30mm socket. I cut the tang to fit the Flange Connector of the 800R and 800RE. I guess one will need to be made or modify the OEM one.



#68 bigmachdaddy

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Posted 15 March 2019 - 07:32 AM

Why do I need the magneto puller? For torquing of the flywheel nut? Should I be concerned about the brownish residue on the case?

Adam

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#69 bigmachdaddy

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Posted 15 March 2019 - 07:36 AM

It is part of the goop to isolate the pick up connections.

So I need a new one, and it goes in the same spot the old one is? Is it to prevent the wires on the back of the stator from rubbing on the case? That would make sense.

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Edited by bigmachdaddy, 15 March 2019 - 07:38 AM.


#70 mbret2004

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Posted 15 March 2019 - 09:07 AM

The silicone for the pickups is used to electrically insulate them from the case. You can use black RTV without issue, clean all the old stuff away first. Your rubber grommet protects the stator wiring from chaffing on the case where the wires feed thru as does the black chaff tape which is factory installed. Pay close attention to installing the pick-ups and wiring as they were initially, mistakes here will have you back scratching your head.
Not hard, just take your time.
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#71 bigmachdaddy

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Posted 15 March 2019 - 10:50 AM

The silicone for the pickups is used to electrically insulate them from the case. You can use black RTV without issue, clean all the old stuff away first. Your rubber grommet protects the stator wiring from chaffing on the case where the wires feed thru as does the black chaff tape which is factory installed. Pay close attention to installing the pick-ups and wiring as they were initially, mistakes here will have you back scratching your head.
Not hard, just take your time.

I didn't touch the crank sensor. But I will be sure to take my time and install a new strip and new rtv. Thanks

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#72 Daag44

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Posted 15 March 2019 - 11:30 AM

Well I got it all apart.... Toasty . I am wondering what the brownish oily residue is.. I will post pics.... I thought maybe it's from the melting of the stator windings, the coating that encapsulates the windings.. Also wondering what that black strip is to the left of the crank... The flywheel looks to have melted plastic on it that does seem to come off with a little Scotch Brite... Hopefully no other parts need to be replaced.... Let me know what you guys think.

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My first thought was the quality in pictures. Nice work!

Of note, there is no Isoflex seepage which is fantastic! This means the mag side crank end didn't get too hot which I would have expected with an overheated stator from an external source such as a severe the muffler overheat, and possibly internally from an engine overheat. When I see a rod bearing that has turned blue or a piston that suffered pre-ignition with a melted crown or a hole on the exhaust side, things downstairs tend to get hot including the stator. The signs are unmistakable with Isoflex seeping out the mag end seal. So with no signs of Isoflex I think this means the the failure was isolated to the stator, which is again fantastic!

The black strip that you mentioned is an Adhesive Pad with Loctite 5910 sealant that serves to protect the 6 stator wires from the crankcase and hold them in place. This is quality OEM work. Note the Orange and Orange/White wires were at the top and went past the Adhesive Pad. They rested against the crankcase, but from the picture we can see the sealant did its job to protect the wires and there were no burnt marks. This will be important to keep in mind for re-installation including the trigger coil.

The stator has 12 windings separated into 3 phases. Unlike the stators prior to the ETEC that shared a wire between two phases, the ETEC stator has the 3 phases isolated from each other and each their own set of wires. This is for the brilliant series/parallel switching at the VRR (Voltage Rectifier Regulator) to raise the cranking voltage. It allows the engine to start with less than a full turn of the engine.

Note the Brown stator wire that appear to have burnt and broke-off due to heat. From the windings that have the burnt-off epoxy protective coating, we can see each one that were connected to the Brown and Brown/White pair. If we turn the picture slightly clockwise they are in the 7, 9, 11 and 1 O'Clock position. The weakest point appears to be soldered connection for the Brown stator wire.

For the brownish oily residue I find it difficult to be sure where you are referring to in the pictures. Possibly what is coating the magnets of the Magneto Flywheel? What I see is the epoxy that protects the windings that got burnt, and I remember that you had mentioned an engine overheat that left coolant overflowing from the bottle to drip in this area. Perhaps the residue is a combination of coolant and burnt epoxy? Just a guess.

For the underlying cause of the stator failure, I cannot know with certainty. Fortunately we know the engine overheated during the ride prior to the stator failure. This is priceless since we tend to avoid admitting it does happen. The sleds that I typically work on have thousands of miles on OEM builds. They have all overheated at one time or another as admitted by the owners, and the stators were perfectly fine. I have experienced myself one of the wildest engine overheat possible (click here) with no hint of a problem on the stator, either visibly nor electrically. So an engine overheat is in no way a direct cause of a stator failure.

What I am suggesting is the engine overheat in some way had a play in this particular stator failure. Was it the hot coolant dripping over the stator? Or the VRR/ECM drawing too much current from the stator over a long period that lead to a weak stator connection and the engine overheat was the drop that spilled the glass, or something else? How or why exactly, I really don't know. And I am not overly concerned by it. The chances of this happening again are way to small for me to worry about. I will keep it in mind if ever I find a similar case that I can draw a parallel.

What is important to keep in mind is the stator has 3 separate phases and only one phase overheated. In a 3 phase system such as this one, each phase is made to work equally by the VRR. This means there was a weak link with what appears to be the soldered connection of the Brown wire. In the end it is what it is, just a component failure that needs to be replaced.



#73 gen1xrs

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Posted 15 March 2019 - 11:44 AM

Bigmachdaddy - just curious, how many miles are on the sled as I have the same one?

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#74 Daag44

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Posted 15 March 2019 - 01:29 PM

The silicone for the pickups is used to electrically insulate them from the case. You can use black RTV without issue, clean all the old stuff away first. Your rubber grommet protects the stator wiring from chaffing on the case where the wires feed thru as does the black chaff tape which is factory installed. Pay close attention to installing the pick-ups and wiring as they were initially, mistakes here will have you back scratching your head.
Not hard, just take your time.


Mike, this is good stuff, all of it! I enjoy your focus on the installation where it needs to be. The bold had me Google search the known stator issues for MY2013 of the 800RE. I landed on my own post with a Warranty Bulletin that clearly showed the leading cause of the P1562 fault code was a failed stator....
 
:headbang
 

 

 
P1562, P1563 fault codes in BUDS
 
Summary:
What to look for when P1562 or P1563 fault code are triggered on a 2013 800 E-tec

 
TST Detail:
Recent investigations have revealed an issue causing the above fault codes to be seen via BUD's. The codes involve high and low
voltage codes and are the result of the stator output wires being damaged.

 

 

Stator Wires chafing on Magneto Flywheel for MY2013.jpg

 



#75 bigmachdaddy

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Posted 15 March 2019 - 02:23 PM

Bigmachdaddy - just curious, how many miles are on the sled as I have the same one?

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3700 but read my post up a little about coolant leaking and possibly coolant being the cause of the failure....this is just speculation though

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Edited by bigmachdaddy, 15 March 2019 - 02:26 PM.





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