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#31 bigmachdaddy

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Posted 12 March 2019 - 10:34 AM

Where did the dent come from? Removing it?

It's dented all the way around it.. almost looks like it's supposed to be like that

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#32 bigmachdaddy

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Posted 12 March 2019 - 10:35 AM

Surprised you were unable to pinpoint source of smell/smoke when you opened panel. Pull start or E start or both?

Both.... I removed starter the other day because the spring was weak and starter wasn't working ... Gear kept contacting clutch gear so I removed it before this ride.

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#33 Judge64

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Posted 12 March 2019 - 11:42 AM

It's dented all the way around it.. almost looks like it's supposed to be like that

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Maybe some electronics experts can chime in but I was always under the impression that dented capacitors are a bad thing and should be replaced because the internal layers could be damaged. Some have said a minor dent may be ok but that looks to be a good size dent.



#34 Daag44

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Posted 12 March 2019 - 12:04 PM

Here is with the cover off5a336a4601c86b1666f6b661deabaf08.jpgee1fecbad8074bad828ca3641663da0e.jpgc307ee1cc38fe5367b246a762738d3eb.jpg

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The top and bottom look good. No bulging, no signs of fluid leakage, and no burnt marks at the connections. The top picture shows abnormal wear on casing, but I assume it isn't perforated?

 

I just came back from the garage after performing both tests on a 20 Vdc 68,0000 uF Capacitor for the SDI.

 

For the Capacitor Charge Hold Test I charged the capacitor with a spare auto battery I had lying around @ 12.4 Vdc. Within 60 seconds the capacitor discharged slowly and held 11.95 Vdc. The voltage drop was gradual with nothing out of the ordinary.

 

For the Capacitor Residual Voltage Test  I used a Test Light for the discharge which worked awesome! It took 10 seconds to discharge into the tenths of a volt, and 15 second to deplete the capacitor into the hundreds.

 

I have no reference for either test, but to me this looks great! This is what I meant by looking for obvious problems with a simple test.  I could go further, but so far I find nothing of concern.

 

CAUTION:  Like a shop manual, I need to seriously warn you with the setup. Charging a capacitor is no joke. I have a good setup with test leads and a switch as mentioned in the shop manual. The switch is one I use as a temporary install of a Wideband and EGTs for when I test newly rebuild sleds and don't want to be surprised by $3000 lean or pre-ignition failure. I also tried without the switch and wow that is some serious charging/welding current with good sparks that could cause serious problems.

 

So when you use your sled battery, make sure that all ring terminals from harness, starter solenoid and ground are disconnected from the battery. Also take the time to make good test leads for secure connections between the multimeter and capacitor. No joke these are serious tests.


Edited by Daag44, 12 March 2019 - 12:05 PM.


#35 bigmachdaddy

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Posted 12 March 2019 - 02:07 PM

I charged the capacitor with a car battery and it seems to hold the voltage very well, actually has held from 12.44 to 11.53 for well over an hour..... Used a test light to discharge it and it performed just like daags test..

Looks like I will be putting it back in and checking what the voltage is at at the capacitor when turning the engine over

Daag can u confirm that that is my next step.... I'm thinking I don't have a bad capacitor

Does that read piece looked pierced at all? It's definitely pointed up in the middle.

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#36 Thumb2bar

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Posted 12 March 2019 - 02:33 PM

Did you remove the starter lead all the way back to solenoid? Did you check solenoid after the smell/smoke issue?



#37 bigmachdaddy

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Posted 12 March 2019 - 02:40 PM

Did you remove the starter lead all the way back to solenoid? Did you check solenoid after the smell/smoke issue?

No I didn't, I taped the crap out of the end and wire tied it out of the way.

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#38 Daag44

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Posted 12 March 2019 - 03:36 PM

I charged the capacitor with a car battery and it seems to hold the voltage very well, actually has held from 12.44 to 11.53 for well over an hour..... Used a test light to discharge it and it performed just like daags test..

Looks like I will be putting it back in and checking what the voltage is at at the capacitor when turning the engine over

Daag can u confirm that that is my next step.... I'm thinking I don't have a bad capacitor

Does that read piece looked pierced at all? It's definitely pointed up in the middle.

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So far I am thinking the same that the capacitor is good.

 

PDF p.460 in the 2012 shop manual shows an example of the fluid leakage seen on the protector cap. You didn't find any signs of leakage over or under the protector cap. Since you had detected a bad odor the capacitor was the obvious place to check first, but like you I no longer believe it has anything to do with the capacitor. 

 

For the next step, starting the sled is absolutely not the next step. I am glad you asked and hope that I caught you in time. I would prefer to remove each plug behind the ECM to visibly check the connections. Remove whatever you need to gain good access to the area that has a burnt smell to inspect components and the harness.


Edited by Daag44, 12 March 2019 - 03:46 PM.


#39 Daag44

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Posted 12 March 2019 - 04:14 PM

I thought it was time to bring out the Timeline - Point Form format. It took some time and guessing to piece it together from the description in your first post, so you'll need to double-check to see if it is accurate.
 
 
Saturday March 9th
- A strange odor was detected after about 100 miles of riding.
- Around the same time a new dry bearing type of noise was heard from in front and slightly on the PTO side. 
- ~300 foot from a stop sign the check engine light came on and displayed REV LIMITED.
- Coasted to the stop sign, went to get off the sled, but it beeped several times and I shut her down.
- Got off the sled and noticed light smoke coming from right panel, so I open it and all I smelled was burning electrical.
- Start the engine and the gauge cluster was dead for about 2-3 seconds.
- The gauge needles did their sweep real slow and the digital rpm came up on the dash.
- It idled really low for a few seconds then quit.
- Fast forward 30-40 minutes when we reached the truck and trailer.
- Started it back up and it idled great for a few minutes and drove it in the trailer, still smelling burning electrical.
 
Sunday March 10th
- I get it home and fire it up in the garage.
- Let it idle for 10 minutes while checking battery voltage.
- 13.6 at idle.
- 14.8 roughly, holding steady throttle @ ~2000 rpm.
- Held the throttle at about 2000 rpms for a minute, then let it idle for another 10 min.
- Ran it at 35 mph on the lift for a few minutes.
- Did this three times, and each time it was brought back to idle it started to die.
- When it's starting to die the battery voltage is down to 12.16 , then with throttle input it will pick back up to low 13s. 
- I am leaning towards the stator, but when I put my hose near that blue capacitor it smells awful.
 
Monday March 11th
- Pulled P1562 Low Voltage Fault Code
- Possible Cause: Damaged Circuit Wires, Connectors, Injectors, Ignition Coils, Oil Pump, Capacitor or ECM.

 

Warranty Bulletin for known stator issues on MY2013 of the 800RE.
Summary:
What to look for when P1562 or P1563 fault code are triggered on a 2013 800 E-tec
TST Detail:
Recent investigations have revealed an issue causing the above fault codes to be seen via BUD's. The codes involve high and low voltage codes and are the result of the stator output wires being damaged.

 
Tuesday March 12th
- Capacitor Visual and Odor inspection passed.
- Capacitor Charge Hold Test passed.
- Capacitor Residual Voltage Test passed.
 
 
To Do:
 
- Find electrical odor near the Capacitor. ECM???
 
- Disconnect ECM for a Visual and Odor inspection of the ECM and its connectors.
  ECM Removal
  PDF page 356, 357, 358
 
- While ECM is removed, Visual and Odor inspection of remaining components powered by the 60 Vdc System Voltage BUS (Injectors, Ignition Coils, Oil Pump).
 
- Injector wires have been known to chafe and short.

- Reconnect ECM, Capacitor and Battery.

- Measure 60 Vdc System Voltage (Red on capacitor +, Black on chassis). Min 30 Vdc while cranking over the engine.

- Disconnect components on 60 Vdc System Voltage BUS one at a time and measure for a voltage increase. This will determine if any of the components are shorted and drawing down the System Voltage (aka ECM output).


Edited by Daag44, 18 March 2020 - 12:48 AM.


#40 bigmachdaddy

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Posted 12 March 2019 - 04:14 PM

I meant that checking voltage at the capacitor while pulling the motor over with kill switch shut off to see if I had my 60 volts from the stator to the capacitor. Maybe trying it a few times. I could always put my meter on min/max to catch the highest voltage


I ordered a new used capacitor off eBay capacitor has 791 miles on it.... if it doesn't change anything I have a spare.

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#41 Daag44

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Posted 12 March 2019 - 04:15 PM

You are right, it can't hurt.

#42 bigmachdaddy

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Posted 12 March 2019 - 04:16 PM

Can I remove the ecm totally just to see around better?

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#43 bigmachdaddy

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Posted 12 March 2019 - 04:18 PM

That page in the manual shows a pierced capacitor around that inspection shield.... Mine has that Pierce in the inspection plate .... Manual says that's bad.... Daag what's your thoughts on this? e8200292ee792f6bcd669212b023b2d6.jpg

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#44 Daag44

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Posted 12 March 2019 - 04:19 PM

Can I remove the ecm totally just to see around better?

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Sure can. Just unplug the battery - which I assume was already unplugged to remove the capacitor.

 

After putting together the timeline, I realized that you had already done a lot of running on the stand when you got home, so I can't imagine that running the sled anymore will cause problems. I guess that I was being overly careful, but as you can see I wasn't quite following properly until I put it together.



#45 Daag44

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Posted 12 March 2019 - 04:35 PM

That page in the manual shows a pierced capacitor around that inspection shield.... Mine has that Pierce in the inspection plate .... Manual says that's bad.... Daag what's your thoughts on this? e8200292ee792f6bcd669212b023b2d6.jpg

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I see no signs of perforation or leakage.

 

The Black&White picture in the manual doesn't show an obvious perforation until you expand the pdf to 400% and then you can see the center of the inspection shied is slightly darker from what appears the center to have caved. It also shows signs of the leakage on the top of the protector cap. Yours show none of those things. Also this was the effect of connecting the capacitor with reverse polarity which yours didn't have this problem. So I have no reason to believe the capacitor on your sled is perforated.

 






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