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2019 600R RPM fade On clicker #5 - Clutching ideas

600r clutching pdrive p drive rpm fade

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#1 isthatahemi

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 04:09 PM

Sled has 1300 miles. RPM flares to 8100-8200 at low to medium speed when WOT. As speed climbs, rpms settle to 7900 when -25 out, in temps just above freezing, it bogs all the way down to 7500. New plugs, deflection set, all codes cleared, clicker set on #5 (was worse on #4).

 

Going back to the dealer Monday. Is there a simple change to clutching to resolve this perhaps? Maybe a primary spring with same preload and higher rate / finishing load? Is anyone else experiencing RPM fade as the belt / ambient temps warm up? Belt life so far is good, belt in good shape.

 

In cold temps the sled pulls 7900-8000 and runs 102mph on the dash, as it warms up outside & belt temps, it runs 7500 and 88mph.



#2 brownmecha

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 04:17 PM

Try a new belt yet?

#3 isthatahemi

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 04:41 PM

Not yet - I've never had a belt change rpm's more than 100-200, but, I suppose that would be the smart thing to do. Can a slightly worn OEM belt cause that much trouble?

Also not sure which belt I want to run, so I don't want to buy another Doo belt if this is a characteristic of the belt, not sure I want to try Dayco XTX again, they run nicely but don't last.



#4 Couch1

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 07:09 PM

I've been told the ramps are to heavy and the straight 44 helix too much running mine on clicker 4 and a 44-42 helix it's much better, but not perfect in warm temps it won't pull full rpm doesn't fade just won't pull 8200

#5 LeeL

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 07:50 PM

Are you guys running a renegade or mxz ? I know there’s some that will disagree but clicker 4 works good on the mxz x600r I have . On a renegade I do think the stock setup would be too heavy . You could buy a pivot bolt kit from Straightline that’s 13 to 15 grams and take a bit of pivot weight out . Also on renegade I would put a primary spring with a higher finish rate . Mxz and renegade have same clutch spec witch I think you will see change for 2020 .



#6 isthatahemi

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Posted 10 March 2019 - 10:55 AM

129” 1.6 ice cobra, which (iirc) has similar gearing to the renegade. What throws me off is many seem to say that the OEM 600R clutching is on point, my experience is the opposite right from day 1, I also don’t follow how many are posting that rpm came up through breakin, mine did somewhat, but that’s probably more related to colder weather.

I have ordered 2 new springs for the primary. OEM is apparently 150/305, I ordered 2 springs:

Dalton White/Red/Black (DPDS- W/R/B) 170 lbs 365 lbs.

Dalton White/Blue/Black (DPDS- W/BL/B) 170 lbs 385 lbs

I was looking for the same start rate, but the higher overall rate will allow me to click the clutch back down.

Edited by isthatahemi, 10 March 2019 - 10:56 AM.


#7 jimmyk

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Posted 10 March 2019 - 12:08 PM

129” 1.6 ice cobra, which (iirc) has similar gearing to the renegade. What throws me off is many seem to say that the OEM 600R clutching is on point, my experience is the opposite right from day 1, I also don’t follow how many are posting that rpm came up through breakin, mine did somewhat, but that’s probably more related to colder weather.
I have ordered 2 new springs for the primary. OEM is apparently 150/305, I ordered 2 springs:
Dalton White/Red/Black (DPDS- W/R/B) 170 lbs 365 lbs.
Dalton White/Blue/Black (DPDS- W/BL/B) 170 lbs 385 lbs
I was looking for the same start rate, but the higher overall rate will allow me to click the clutch back down.



My experience is that really doesn’t effect the max rpm much by increasing the finishing rate on the spring, that was on the tra clutch. Maybe the Pdrive clutch will react differently, hope that’s the case.

#8 LeeL

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Posted 10 March 2019 - 12:15 PM

It will not effect the peak rpm much but will help maintain peek rpm . Isthatamemi I would like to make a suggestion. Try 13or 13.5 pivot bolt weight on clicker 4 and see how it works before you get into springs .



#9 isthatahemi

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Posted 10 March 2019 - 12:50 PM

Thanks for the reply and advice!

Peak rpm is 8100-8200, it pulls down from there, so my thinking was the heavier load spring is almost the same as the lighter loading pivot arms (bolts)?

Springs are on their way, 2 day shipping, so that is the first move, arms with be #2 if required.

My experience is often a heavier primary spring nudges things where they need to be based on my experience with the Polaris P85, which seems to share some traits with the *P85. I am also aiming to get back onto clicker 3 so I have some adjustment range for conditions, which to me is really what the clickers are all about.

Edited by isthatahemi, 10 March 2019 - 01:00 PM.


#10 isthatahemi

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Posted 10 March 2019 - 12:55 PM

My experience is that really doesn’t effect the max rpm much by increasing the finishing rate on the spring, that was on the tra clutch. Maybe the Pdrive clutch will react differently, hope that’s the case.

My thinking was this - Starting rate is 20#/ 15% higher, ending rate is 60# / 20% higher, which should affect the whole range, and slow upshift at higher speeds.

Caveat again that I don’t really know much for certain regarding the Pdrive. Making small changes based in on my Polaris P85 experience, any limited knowledge that i can change a spring without buying tools or learning a bunch. Some intellectual laziness here as I don’t care to learn more than I need to know, where usually I like to fully wrap my head around a situation. Partly due to one more weekend of riding left for me and that’s about it.

Edited by isthatahemi, 10 March 2019 - 12:58 PM.


#11 LeeL

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Posted 10 March 2019 - 01:29 PM

I missed your peek was good . A higher finish should help keep it you in the sweet spot



#12 timbo48

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 06:47 AM

129” 1.6 ice cobra, which (iirc) has similar gearing to the renegade. What throws me off is many seem to say that the OEM 600R clutching is on point, my experience is the opposite right from day 1, I also don’t follow how many are posting that rpm came up through breakin, mine did somewhat, but that’s probably more related to colder weather.

I have ordered 2 new springs for the primary. OEM is apparently 150/305, I ordered 2 springs:

Dalton White/Red/Black (DPDS- W/R/B) 170 lbs 365 lbs.

Dalton White/Blue/Black (DPDS- W/BL/B) 170 lbs 385 lbs

I was looking for the same start rate, but the higher overall rate will allow me to click the clutch back down.

Wish we had more time to test. I'm no clutch guy by any means. Never done anything with my previous ones except blow them out after a ride.

Very curious as to how those new springs are going to work, and which one you find better.

My season is done, perhaps i shall order those same springs and test next year along with you and see if we are on the same page.

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#13 tnt5150

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 07:16 AM

Put in a Goodwin clutch kit and be done. As mentioned the ramps are wrong as well as the spring. Basically, Doo left some meat on the bone. The Goodwin kits gives you everything you need. The Goodwin kit does NOT change anything in the 2ndary.


Edited by tnt5150, 13 March 2019 - 07:17 AM.

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#14 timbo48

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 07:17 AM

Put in a Goodwin clutch kit and be done. As mentioned the ramps are wrong as well as the spring. Basically, Doo left some meat on the bone. The Goodwin kits gives you everything you need.

I assume you did that. What are the improvements overall? Getting better belt life as well?

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#15 timbo48

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Posted 13 March 2019 - 12:23 PM

I've been doing some homework and making some calls. Here's what I found out.

Yours is a 19, you have a different helix than i do, also a different spring, and a more aggressive profile ramp than i do. Mine is the 18.5

I was told to check my rollers first. Being a 600, brp didnt think It would need the tougher rollers. I was told to see if they are egging out. And if so replace with the 850 rollers.

2nd thing for me to do is put in a stiffer primary spring. Mine is a 150/250. Told to put in a 150/300.

So I'll put in the new spring and 850 rollers this summer. Probably get the grip and RIP alignment tool and check that as well. Poly torque stopper and report back next season. Going to be a long summer ugh

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Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: 600r, clutching, pdrive, p drive, rpm fade

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