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Temp & Volt Gauges for a REV


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#1 CMS

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Posted 14 February 2019 - 10:57 PM

Hi All,

 

I recently picked up another GTX Sport 600 HO SDI and as is typical, Ski-Doo does not supply a temp gauge unless you can find a GTX Limited. The factory gauge has long since been discontinued so I ordered a used OEM temp gauge of eBay. Sadly it turned out to be FleeceBay and it was inoperable/DOA.

On my other machine I tried the tutorials posted here and went through multiple different digital gauges but none of them held up as these are really automotive grade gauges not marine or outdoor recreation grade. Being in the marine industry, and knowing what I know about the marine gauges, I decided to throw in a set of analog VDO Viewline Onyx series gauges.

For my old eyes I just need to see a general range and these gauges fit that bill. I am not a huge fan of idiot lights because by the time they come on it's often too late. I like to see a temp trend so I know when or if I need to drop the scratchers or hit some softer snow. I hate owning a liquid cooled machine with no visual temp guidance.

These machines are also pretty picky about batteries, and coming from the marine world where batteries are your lifeblood, I also don't like to be without a volt gauge.The VDO gauges are extremely well constructed, have a face gasket, are made in Switzerland not China, and survive in the salt water environs for years without issue.

 

168817952.jpg

 

I chose the VDO Viewline Onyx series because I knew the back lighting was a near perfect match for the OEM Ski-Doo gauges, and it was. There are many other good marine gauges such as Faria, Veethree, Dat-Con etc. but the VDO Viewline Onyx match the Ski-Doo gauges pretty darn well.

168817953.jpg

 

Under the hood factory plugs are already there for 12V+ and 12V negative/chassis. I just pulled a couple of Amp Multilock 070 housings and pins out of our inventory, built a harness for each gauge, and literally plugged them right in.

 

For the volt gauge I used VDO PN# A2C53191766-S

For the temp gauge I used VDO PN# A2C53413386-K1 (This is a kit that includes a 1/8" NPT nail-head temp sender, it threads right into the t-stat housing)

Bezels for these gauges are sold separately.  I chose black VDO PN# A2C53186027-S

The factory plugs on this 2006 machine, for temp and fuel, are AMP Multilock 070 Series. Both are female three-position housings so you just need two male three position Multilock 070 housings and the male pins. Because I use these terminals in our business I already had the AMP crimp tooling. If you own a Ski-Doo with AMP Multilock connectors the least expensive tool I know of, that will do the job, in a somewhat decent manner, is the Molex 63811-1000 crimp tool. This tool runs about $50.00 +/-. For an inexpensive tool it does ok and is made in the USA. The Molex tool won't crimp the stripped wire and the wire insulations strain relief in one step, like the AMP tool will, but it also costs hundreds less. Making two crimps per terminal is really no big deal. 

Be aware that AMP Multilocks can be a real PITA to dissemble if you mess up, and the extraction tool is pricey, so buy extra male pins, female terminals and male & female housings. A small screw driver can be usedd in a pinch but has a learning curve. I get my components from an electronics wholesaler but there are a few motorcycle guys out there selling AMP Multilocks in a onesey-twosey manner. This is a common terminal on motorcycles.

Once you have the terminals, housings and crimp tool you just make a couple of short harnesses. The volt gauge harness is quite simple as it only needs the red wire (+ switched 12V) and the blue wire with red trace (illumination) connected to 12V+ and then the black wire to negative/chassis. I used the fuel gauge plug for the voltmeter tapping into the red and black wires in the factory plug. For more accurate voltage sensing you could run direct to the battery with a fuse close to battery + but for what I wanted the accuracy at the fuel gauge plug is plenty sufficient.

 

The temp gauge is equally easy and uses the same colors as the volt gauge except for the addition of the green wire in the VDO harness. Leave the green wire long because it will go directly to the temp sender. I went a pin size larger in the AMP Multilock and paired the VDO's blue/red trace and red wires together into the same pin.

168818564.jpg

168818371.jpg

 

The harness that comes with each VDO gauge is "universal" and has a full set of wires capable of being used with any one of their gauges. I dislike taping them off as it is just not very professional. I chose to open the connector, it is two piece, and remove any wires I was not going to be using.

168818407.jpg

 

The last detail is the temp sender. Most VDO temp senders are proprietary, and the only one they offer for this gauge, in 1/8" NPT, is what is often referred to as a "nail head" style sender. This is a left-over design from the 50's but it works ok. To properly wire these a Packard terminal and slotted housing are used (can be seen in the image two above). These terminal housings are getting hard to find but they are out there. Alternatively, a lot of folks just opt to use a Fast-On type terminal. The Molex connector below simply had a piece of the insulation cut away and could be slid onto the nail-head sender. This is a decent alternative to a Packard nail-head terminal.

168818481.jpg

 

Installing the temp sender took all of two minutes. A bit of  Hercules Real-Tuff pipe dope on the threads and it threaded right in. Be sure to drain the coolant tank below the t-stat housing. A turkey baster makes this pretty easy.

168818482.jpg

 

While I am not a huge fan of a temp sender in the top of the t-stat housing, for the purposes I wanted it for it suffices. I also keep up with maintenance, change coolant, replace t-stat etc.. The machine already has its own sender/alarm system, I just wanted a visual temp trend. There are also coolant hose sender inserts that can be used, cut the hose and insert the sender housing, but for what I wanted I decided it was overkill.

 

One last tip is to use your 2 1/16" or 52mm hole saw in reverse going through plastic. It will give a nice clean hole. I use a 1/4" brad point drill in the hole saw arbor so as to not have the drill wander. Oh and this dash panel did not have center dimples anywhere to be found so I had to create a centering jig. 

 

All in all this job takes about 1 to 1.5 hours once you have all your tools ready. Both VDO gauges, with the temp sender, cost less than the single used OEM temp gauge I bought off eBay and did not work. While I was in there I also installed a Blue Sea Systems PN# 1011 12V outlet. The wires / terminals are also already behind the dash for this and you literally drill the hole and plug it in..

Hope this info can help someone..

 


Edited by CMS, 14 February 2019 - 11:00 PM.


#2 Doobidoo

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Posted 14 February 2019 - 11:34 PM

Looks awesome,Great write up, thanks for sharing that!

Edited by Doobidoo, 14 February 2019 - 11:35 PM.


#3 broncoformudv

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Posted 15 February 2019 - 01:57 AM

Thanks for taking the time to put this together. That is a nice slick setup. I had tried one of the digital gauges recommended on here years ago and it failed after just a few mins so i never bothered with any others. I think I will give the VDO one a shot though.

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#4 Daag44

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Posted 15 February 2019 - 04:26 AM

Fantastic write-up!


"I used the fuel gauge plug for the voltmeter tapping into the red and black wires in the factory plug. For more accurate voltage sensing you could run direct to the battery with a fuse close to battery + but for what I wanted the accuracy at the fuel gauge plug is plenty sufficient."
 
I prefer your method over monitoring the battery. This way you are measuring the voltage after the Run Relay which feeds all of the Engine Management. A failure with the R1 Run Relay is common with either a open or partial voltage like 5 Vdc. This wouldn't be noticeable on a volt gauge unless it is connected after the relay like you did. The Black/Blue wire goes to Chassis Ground, which is also my preference over the battery ground for this purpose.

Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R Turbo?
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Diagnoses
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#5 CMS

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Posted 15 February 2019 - 07:11 AM

Fantastic write-up!


"I used the fuel gauge plug for the voltmeter tapping into the red and black wires in the factory plug. For more accurate voltage sensing you could run direct to the battery with a fuse close to battery + but for what I wanted the accuracy at the fuel gauge plug is plenty sufficient."
 
I prefer your method over monitoring the battery. This way you are measuring the voltage after the Run Relay which feeds all of the Engine Management. A failure with the R1 Run Relay is common with either a open or partial voltage like 5 Vdc. This wouldn't be noticeable on a volt gauge unless it is connected after the relay like you did. The Black/Blue wire goes to Chassis Ground, which is also my preference over the battery ground for this purpose.

 

 

Yes, there's that too. I bought a bunch of the genuine Panasonic CB1's on my Newark account a few years ago. Newark SKU # is 64K3088  I suspect that because they are high quality Panasonic's (made in Japan), not no-name mystery origin stuff, they have not failed in over 7K miles. The nice thing about the CB1-12V is it's very well sealed from the elements and uses plated terminals, not bare brass or copper. They seem to hold up better with less oxidation/corrosion of the blades. You can actually pay more for a lesser grade relay buying it from an auto-parts store. The Panasonic CB1's run about $5.50 at Newark and they ship quickly.

In the marine electronics/electrical world we find huge differences in quality between components. Cheap knock-offs seem to rule the day, in price war games, and may look-a-like but they rarely perform-a-like. Take for example the diodes we use in one of our heavy duty marine alternators, that are used to charge massive 600Ah to 1600Ah LiFePO4 lithium-ion battery banks. We pay triple the price for the diodes we use in these alternators, when compared to the cheap Chinese knock-off diodes. The magnet wire used in the stators and rotors is the same level of quality & price difference. The diodes we use run 35-40% cooler yet the cheap ones claim the identical specification.

 

Since replacing with the Panasonic CB1's, and fully cleaning the female terminals with DeoxIT D5, we've not had a single relay failure in over 7k miles. I bought a bunch, I think 10 if I recall, and still have all but the four we swapped out.


Edited by CMS, 15 February 2019 - 07:22 AM.


#6 summitx411

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Posted 15 February 2019 - 01:10 PM

Thanks for the write up, wanted to put a temp guage on. I'd prefer a digital one, and in a perfect world be able to set the temp alarm since most of them are for automotive applications. Digital seems like it'd be easier to see what exact temp your at.

I found one guage that meets my criteria sourced in Canada. Still waiting to hear back from them how it would work against the elements.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

#7 CMS

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Posted 15 February 2019 - 01:42 PM

Thanks for the write up, wanted to put a temp guage on. I'd prefer a digital one, and in a perfect world be able to set the temp alarm since most of them are for automotive applications. Digital seems like it'd be easier to see what exact temp your at.

I found one guage that meets my criteria sourced in Canada. Still waiting to hear back from them how it would work against the elements.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

My eyes are not as good as they once were and I found the digital gauge was actually harder to see/tell a trend. The red pointer seems to work easier for me. If you have good reading eyesight digital is fine. Course wearing readers under a helmet is not going to happen for me so I am liking the analog because all I need to see is a general location of the indicator/pointer. Now that I've seen how the VDO's work, I will be converting the other machine to the VDO's as well. The the digital temp gauge has gone wonky again..

If your eyesight is good, and you prefer digital, check out the KUS brand of 52mm marine gauges. KUS is actually an OEM supplier, like VDO is, for a number of major manufacturers including CAT, MAN, John Deere, Mercedes, Scania, Iveco, Volvo and a number of others. The quality is actually pretty decent and they are very competitively priced. They offer a digital temp and digital volt but temp is only available in Celsius not Fahrenheit.

 


Edited by CMS, 15 February 2019 - 01:44 PM.


#8 summitx411

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Posted 15 February 2019 - 06:22 PM

Much appreciated I'll look into it! Mainly want to watch it as it warms up and be convenient if it flashed when it got to high. But beggers can't be choosers.

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#9 Daag44

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Posted 15 February 2019 - 07:20 PM

My eyes are not as good as they once were and I found the digital gauge was actually harder to see/tell a trend. The red pointer seems to work easier for me. If you have good reading eyesight digital is fine. Course wearing readers under a helmet is not going to happen for me so I am liking the analog because all I need to see is a general location of the indicator/pointer. Now that I've seen how the VDO's work, I will be converting the other machine to the VDO's as well. The the digital temp gauge has gone wonky again..

If your eyesight is good, and you prefer digital, check out the KUS brand of 52mm marine gauges. KUS is actually an OEM supplier, like VDO is, for a number of major manufacturers including CAT, MAN, John Deere, Mercedes, Scania, Iveco, Volvo and a number of others. The quality is actually pretty decent and they are very competitively priced. They offer a digital temp and digital volt but temp is only available in Celsius not Fahrenheit.


Same here, my eyes are nowhere as good. But it all depends on how good is the Digital Voltage Gauge. I run with the Koso MINI 3 AMP+VOLT METER which has the ability to measure up to 30A in series. It wasn't cheap @ ~$160 CAN (click here), but by far the best viewing gauge I could find for sleds, especially best viewing in daylight. My wideband from AEM (click here) has just as good daylight viewing, and it too wasn't cheap @ ~450 CAN. I'm not kidding, just like you I spent the big bucks to get the best viewing.
 
I like the gauges that you are showing, and especially your focus on marine reliability. To me this is priceless. The analog gauges you showed may actually have an advantage with cold weather because the digital start to show problems in really cold weather. Sorry, I don't remember how far the temperature needs to drop before you can't read it, but let's say it becomes a problem at -20C and colder. I rarely ride when it is that cold, and when it is that cold I already know my sleds are running well enough to handle the cold. In other words I don't need the gauges all of the time, just often enough to detect a problem early. I hope that you will see the gauges that I showed as only an alternative. I have no interest in going one up if you know what I mean. Like I said, you have obviously focused on the good stuff for sleds, which is what I admire.

Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R Turbo?
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Diagnoses
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#10 Mach189

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Posted 15 February 2019 - 07:52 PM

Pull/gut the t stat, insert the 440 choke into upper hose and never worry about high temps again.......you may worry about not enough heat after that actually lol. Sometimes I’m like “....I wish this was like 8*F warmer...” lol

#11 Daag44

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Posted 15 February 2019 - 08:06 PM

Yes, there's that too. I bought a bunch of the genuine Panasonic CB1's on my Newark account a few years ago. Newark SKU # is 64K3088  I suspect that because they are high quality Panasonic's (made in Japan), not no-name mystery origin stuff, they have not failed in over 7K miles. The nice thing about the CB1-12V is it's very well sealed from the elements and uses plated terminals, not bare brass or copper. They seem to hold up better with less oxidation/corrosion of the blades. You can actually pay more for a lesser grade relay buying it from an auto-parts store. The Panasonic CB1's run about $5.50 at Newark and they ship quickly.

In the marine electronics/electrical world we find huge differences in quality between components. Cheap knock-offs seem to rule the day, in price war games, and may look-a-like but they rarely perform-a-like. Take for example the diodes we use in one of our heavy duty marine alternators, that are used to charge massive 600Ah to 1600Ah LiFePO4 lithium-ion battery banks. We pay triple the price for the diodes we use in these alternators, when compared to the cheap Chinese knock-off diodes. The magnet wire used in the stators and rotors is the same level of quality & price difference. The diodes we use run 35-40% cooler yet the cheap ones claim the identical specification.
 
Since replacing with the Panasonic CB1's, and fully cleaning the female terminals with DeoxIT D5, we've not had a single relay failure in over 7k miles. I bought a bunch, I think 10 if I recall, and still have all but the four we swapped out.


If I am not mistaken, the Panasonic CB1 relay is the same as what Ski-Doo uses. There was an updated relay as well. Click here for the link to a thread that we looked into the part numbers. If you could help us determine the quality and difference between the two relay, then that would be much appreciated. I have dug into the reasons why a relay fails, but it was more in the practical sense. An easy example is a relay that is subject to abnormal fluctuations will impact its contacts. This is the reason SDIs with electrical problems have eared such a bad reputations to blowing relays. Yet an SDI with a health electrical will go on forever on the same CB1 relay. That is the reason that I focus so much attention on clean grounds and dielectric grease to keep the corrosion at bay - marine pun intended :lol:
 
On the later ETECs 2013+, the electromagnetic relays were replaced by solid state relays and integrated into the ECM for good reason. We seldom hear of electrical problems on the 2013+ ETECs other than the normal problems with stator, grounds, corroded fuse sockets and chafed wires. The Capacitor on the ETEC is another one, but it deserves its own subject. We have one DooTalk member who suggest to replace the relays on our old sleds with the solid state type, but he's once voice in a sea of sleds. So you can imagine how much I welcome your thoughts on the electrical, and again especially since you are focused on marine reliability. It is a subject that needs constant attention.
 
If you could inspect the two relays with OEM part# 410113604 and its replacement 515177672, that would be much appreciated. It is a lot to ask, but if I don't ask..........

Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R Turbo?
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Diagnoses
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#12 Daag44

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  • Sled:2007 1000 SDI

Posted 15 February 2019 - 08:17 PM

Pull/gut the t stat, insert the 440 choke into upper hose and never worry about high temps again.......you may worry about not enough heat after that actually lol. Sometimes I’m like “....I wish this was like 8*F warmer...” lol


I had to check that we were on the REV section before replying :lol:   The newer sleds have gotten better with cooling, although that is often  debatable. I still find it amazing how often we have to drop the skid for the rear flap to be closer to the ground for better cooling. Are we not riding in sub freezing temps???
 
It still find it funny that we speak about snow flaps and scratches, but very little about the coolant pump, t-stat, rpm, CVT and gearing which all have an impact on coolant flow and engine cooling.

Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R Turbo?
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Diagnoses
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#13 Mach189

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Posted 15 February 2019 - 08:34 PM

I had to check that we were on the REV section before replying :lol: The newer sleds have gotten better with cooling, although that is often debatable. I still find it amazing how often we have to drop the skid for the rear flap to be closer to the ground for better cooling. Are we not riding in sub freezing temps???

It still find it funny that we speak about snow flaps and scratches, but very little about the coolant pump, t-stat, rpm, CVT and gearing which all have an impact on coolant flow and engine cooling.

Yeah I’ve had odd situations with picks and scratchers down. Up to 150*F on super hard pack/ice at 40mph. But get going faster, dip into a drift/powder temps come down after a bit. Gonna pull the pump in off season and diagnose, suspect a worn impeller.

But I’ve never had the light come on and 162 is the highest I’ve seen. Was told the light comes on @ 180*F. On 2005 500ss


I do have a mod for my PDP snowflap, didn’t get to it before DT ride, but temp wasn’t an issue like I thought was gonna be on DT ride. Plenty of snow.

Edited by Mach189, 15 February 2019 - 08:35 PM.


#14 Daag44

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Posted 16 February 2019 - 08:49 PM

Yeah I’ve had odd situations with picks and scratchers down. Up to 150*F on super hard pack/ice at 40mph. But get going faster, dip into a drift/powder temps come down after a bit. Gonna pull the pump in off season and diagnose, suspect a worn impeller.

But I’ve never had the light come on and 162 is the highest I’ve seen. Was told the light comes on @ 180*F. On 2005 500ss


I do have a mod for my PDP snowflap, didn’t get to it before DT ride, but temp wasn’t an issue like I thought was gonna be on DT ride. Plenty of snow.


Raising the rpm alone helps with cooling. It's counter intuitive only because we focus on the engine producing more heat.
 
The coolant pump shaft installation is tricky. If the bearing is pressed too far then the impeller will rub on the cover. If the impeller isn't well secured/tightened to the shaft, it can unscrew when running in reverse and break/fold the fins. I do my best to avoid messing with that part of the engine unless I suspect trouble.

 

By the way, the highest coolant temperature I have personally reached on a sled was 268F (131C), and there was no sensor failure. I suspect the word unbelievable comes to mind, but what's even more so is the engine survived. I would not believe it had I not been on the sled to see it.

 

 

Maximum Temperature of 268F 131C.jpg


Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R Turbo?
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Diagnoses
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#15 summitx411

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Posted 20 February 2019 - 06:11 AM

The Canadian guage supplier got back to me. Stated they've had a number of boost Guages put on sleds and haven't had many issues. I ordered one since they are in Canada and seem to be good to deal with. If you want the website pm me.

I'm doing a t stat delete and will be putting the copper plug right after the elbow that goes to the coolant tank.

Im curious if that will give me an accurate reading, as there will mostly be coolant 'hung up" in the elbow where the sensor port is waiting to bleed through the small hole in the homemade restricter. I could put an inline adapter coming down the head but hate adding more connections.

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