Engine Mounts original design for no vibration in the handlebars
2018 Changes to Engine Mounts
- PTO side shims added to lower up and down movement.
- MAG side mount found too soft and allowing too much engine twist.
2019 Changes
- Stiffer MAG side mount to reduce engine twist.
- New belt guard bracket to stop the belt from touching in specific backshift conditions.
- New belt guard with larger air intake.
- Adding air duct from LH panel to the intake hole on the belt guard.
- Finned Secondary clutch.
- New Primary clutch calibration
I picked this up on Snow&Mud. I divided the post into 4 paragraphs that covers different subjects. The first paragraph covers a ~4% demographic who apply Brakes while on the Throttle. It is a technique called
Brake Control that is used Off-Trails for controlled maneuvers, but it is also used by a small percentage of Trail Riders which I have seen for myself and has been independently posted here on DooTalk last month. A quote from
Teth-Air and
SidewaysInto3rd further down below explains some of the reasons for this method Off-Trail. For Trail riding this method is used to drop the nose down to take fast corners while also helping to drift the rear end especially with studded tracks.
The second paragraph covers the Engine Mounts and how it has been affecting Belt Life.
The third paragraph covers other changes for 2019. Take note of the belt touching the belt guard bracket in certain backshifting conditions. Several videos of this phenomenon have been shown and often referred to as the belt Ballooning. In some cases just a change in the Primary to a 2017 has shown to make a difference, so there is calibration involved. This has been addressed for the most part by the Aftermarket with various changes to the clutching, but the bracket still needs attention. Also note that BRP are making a change to the clutch calibration for the second time, which proves there is always room for improvements. The MY2019 will be no different to any other year in the sense that there will always be advantages to calibrating the CVT including alignment for different conditions and riding styles.
The fourth covers BRP's commitment to continually address the all demographic of riders. To add to it, most belt failures can be avoided by keeping the temps down which requires different Clutch Calibrations.
Click here for my take on the Belt Tension/Snapping phenomenon.
Snopro Posted on April 12th, 2018, 10:46 AM
http://www.snowandmud.com/ski-doo-rev-gen-4-a/115598-850-super-belt-muncher-4-belts-2-days-14.html#post2495991
"I haven't seen this posted yet so I will. What we learned at the Spring Fever Tour Stop in Calgary from the product engineer that attended was the belt issue seems to be more isolated to a demographic of rider that uses their brake and throttle a lot at the same time. They are saying it is a 4% issue and I have to concur because that is exactly what we have seen for a failure rate at our store for the last 2 years in terms of customer complaints. I don't totally understand this concept of riding because I use my brake for stopping or setting the sled when plateauing a steep hill under throttle. Maybe someone like Johnny Hurkot or Dan (Lilduke) can better explain this. Apparently this puts a lot of load into the engine platform pulling it out of alignment creating a lot of heat into the clutches and belt.
When the G4 was designed the head engineer wanted no vibration in the handlebars so he signed off on too soft a motor mount design. Last year they changed the PTO side mounts on a warranty campaign but that only stopped up and down movement it now turns out. They then realized that the mag side mount is still allowing twist in the engine (yeah I know) which is still causing belt issues. What the engineer told me is they are going to a stiffer mount now on the mag side that is like the XM's. Since doing this they have found that one of their test riders has gone from a belt a day failure to the same belt for 2 weeks. They are currently testing different hardnesses of mount to come up with a final solution that gives good belt reliability and an acceptable amount of vibration in the handlebars.
They are also making other changes for my2019. A new belt guard bracket to stop the belt from touching it in specific backshift conditions. A new belt guard as well with a different hole placement. This was done as they will be adding a vent on the LH panel that will connect to a thin air duct which in turn will connect directly to the hole on the belt guard. Basically a blowhole concept. The back sheave on the secondary clutch will be finned like the P drives inner sheave this year for 2019. They will also have new primary clutch calibration that will be finalized soon.
He stated that even though 4% is not a big number they are committed to be better and try and appease all demographic of riders. Not much solace to consumers that have paid out of pocket for new belts but nice to see they are trying to still reduce the number of failures that are happening out there. Anyone that thinks there should be zero belt failures on ANY snowmobile should probably skip over this post and go feed their unicorn. Lol
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Brake Control
- Applying Brakes while on the Throttle for controlled maneuvers
- BRP is concerned that this particular style of riding is causing additional Belt Issues, and the BRP dealers out West have noted this problem.
- So is anyone really using this technique? See below for the many references...
Teth-Air Posted April 15th, 2018, 08:42 PM
http://www.snowandmud.com/ski-doo-rev-gen-4-a/115598-850-super-belt-muncher-4-belts-2-days-post2496907.html#post2496907
Ken FYI, I notice I use my brake constantly, dragging it at times. It is a function of tight trees and spinning the track to roll the sled and initiate turns and then
slamming the brake back on to stop the track to turning before it actually hooks up and provides too much "push" in a direction I don't really want to go. It seems a bit more required on a Polaris due to the lack of T-Motion and wider front end. The Polaris needs to be ridden on one ski and the Doo can be steered around easier. I'm sure there are guys who are just as aggressive on a Doo too and use the power to initiate each move.
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SidewaysInto3rd Posted on Dec 11th, 2017, 10:44 AM
https://www.snowest.com/forum/showthread.php?p=4109834#post4109834
yeah .. foot position +
throttle and brake control
move your foot back a bit then
tap the brakes to keep the sled from climbing. its a fine balance point but once you find it, she goes smooth!
JJ_0909 Posted on Feb 23rd, 2018
https://www.snowest.com/forum/showthread.php?p=4134528#post4134528
Have ridden both.
Those that say the 2.5" is "best on trail only" is kind of missing the point IMO.
Where the 2.5" is awesome is those "normal" days. The days when its not silly deep. As others have commented, the 3" track hooks up a lot better than the 2.5". In many situations this can be annoying. I want some track spin at times to get the sled to "cut" into the snow. Too much is obviously bad, but in firmer conditions, or conditions where you can find a base, especially when in more mellow terrain or coaching, its a much more user friendly track (
I'm not all over the brake controlling ground speed nearly as much). I put the girl on the 2.5" and its been a much easier sled for her to learn on.
Now for those "getting amongst it", no doubt the 3" is more capable, especially in longer lengths or with some aftermarket suspension. But yeah, the 2.5" is not a trial track and absolutely has its place. For most riders, I think they'd be overall happier with it. My $0.02.
Riding technique: how is the handbrake being used
https://www.snowest.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-407791.html
glowa
01-14-2016, 11:51 AM
Can someone clarify to me how is the handbrake being used for the riding technique?
I remember Burandt mentioned in one of his videos that he uses the brake lever a lot, but why and what for? Of course I do not mean braking going downhill, I feel there are other uses however I was not able to figure this out myself
KTMDirtFace
01-14-2016, 11:59 AM
I'm pretty new but, it seems to help setup for turns.
Also on sidehills when my front wants to climb i sometimes tap the brake to help keep the front from wanting to go uphill.
I need to get one of those heated levers.
I ride with my finger over it at all times ( like the clutch on my moto's ). my finger is always frozen!
glowa
01-14-2016, 12:03 PM
I thought I am a decent rider, I ride in trees on steep slopes and I can sidehill as well, but clearly I am not as good as I thought because I never used handbrake before
)))
estaked
01-14-2016, 04:16 PM
I am the same way
rarely use it, other than initiating a turn back uphill from going down hill helps me get the sled on edge. For the most part I use it as an oh **** handle.
tuneman
01-14-2016, 04:31 PM
Same here. I even duct tape my throttle all the way to the handlebar...
Seriously,
the brake obviously slows the sled for consistency and control. Also to bring the front end down, as stated earlier. All throttle will get you up and over the tree, a bit of brake will get you down and under the tree. Very helpful sometimes.
bryceraisanen
01-14-2016, 05:17 PM
If u get in a tight spot where u need to turn or lay sled iver sharply.... Do a brakestand.
While holding the brake rev up throttle. Once its revved up just let go of brake for a fraction of a second and then reapply. Youll find u can turn/layover the sled or get an edge set without hardly moving the sled at all.
From there u just work it into your dangling. U almost get to the point where u always got throttle hammered but use the brake for speed\angle adjustments instead of getting outta the throttle.
Once u learn how to
"ride the brake" youll become so much more capable. Essentially, u can get in and out of the throttle that much quicker. Almost like a good clutching and gearing setup. Put the two together an then youll really be cooking with gas!
FatDogX
01-14-2016, 11:17 PM
Your brake level is just as important as your throttle!!! It's a marriage and
once you get use to using the brake and throttle with each other, your riding will improve!!
One analogy is to think of the brake level like a clutch. When you take go to take off, hold the brake, increase throttle and "feel" for all the slack in the drive train to come out and release the brake and continue to increase the throttle. Same with getting up and on top of deep snow, only much quicker.
When side hilling or tree riding the brake will assist with keeping overall momentum up, without coming completely out of the throttle. If the sled feels like it's getting ahead of you, burn a little brake. If you feel like "you" are getting behind the sled, add some throttle.
Running with a finger on the throttle and learning to use it will increase your riding capabilities. The old school of thought was "when it doubt, throttle out" but really it is "when in doubt, finesse it out" and you need the brake to do that!!
Scott
01-14-2016, 11:59 PM
Turbo guys will do this all the time to keep their boost up.
Finger the break, get into the throttle a bit, build the boost up (or as the nitrous guys say, "FOG THE BOX") and then let go of the brake.
Toad face killah
01-15-2016, 01:02 AM
I love to sidehill, boondock and play in the deep powder, but
I never use my break unless coming to a stop. If I let off the throttle the sled instantly comes to a crawl. In my experience, using the break only throws off the balance. instead of using the break in a sidehill to gain balance, try adjusting your countersteer.
and for a new rider, trying to find the balance between brake and throttle will only burn up expensive belts.
am i missing something?
vector boy
01-15-2016, 01:29 AM
I love to sidehill, boondock and play in the deep powder, but I never use my break unless coming to a stop. If I let off the throttle the sled instantly comes to a crawl. In my experience, using the break only throws off the balance. instead of using the break in a sidehill to gain balance, try adjusting your countersteer.
and for a new rider, trying to find the balance between brake and throttle will only burn up expensive belts.
am i missing something?
Yes, and no. This year I started working the brake more on a sidehill than I have before, and the results are very pleasing. The new style chassis that are out require a different technique of riding. Before, yes letting off the gas could get you the same effect.
But on any new sled the brake, as stated before,
helps set the track in, keeps an edge better, keeps the rider in control while traversing a sidehill, and allows the person to see what is coming and where they are going. Takes some practice and getting use to at first. And yes, it can be hard on belts, but so is holding it to the bar on the trail ride back in.
simnil
01-15-2016, 09:10 AM
I feel that to be in Control in a sidehill the track needs to slip some compared to your actual speed. Either the track needs to spin a bit faster or a bit slower than the sled is actually moving. So I tend to constantly shift between throttle and brake when in the trees to be able to keep the speed down and stay in control.
Blk88GT
01-15-2016, 10:49 AM
Lots of good advice in this thread. I'm not as articulate as most of you, but
the brake is essential!
glowa
01-16-2016, 01:13 AM
I love how you compare brake to the clutch. When riding my dirtbike I always keep one finger on the clutch to help me in tight situations in the wood!
MKULTRA
01-17-2016, 06:29 PM
i use my brake to control my sled a lots too, i'm still a newbie so I'll see what stays and what goes with experience
if you just pin it...i think you leave lots of riding possibilities on the table.
but hey i'm not cool as these guys i guess :eyebrows: