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600 etec - real computer geek help needed


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#1 crashtest

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 11:59 AM

Need help with this one

 

I changed the plugs on my 600 etec – sled runs fine, but I can tell that the fuel is off – I only ran it for 2mins

I know these sleds have a learn mode for fueling and spark

I would like to start from the initial tables if possible

 

Does the map/fuel tables get reset after the battery is disconnected? (estart model)

 

On my car I have set up my fuel table based upon the o2 sensor swing at a given rpm/map/temp

When I disconnect the car battery it starts fresh from my  “stock” tables – then it learns from there

 

I have no idea if sleds are the same – not sure how it would work if there was no battery

 

Maybe I will simple have to baby it a little until it learns?


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#2 krm

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 12:06 PM

Did you index the plugs ? If not ,that's the problem .



#3 crashtest

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 12:23 PM

yes sir plugs are indexed - correctly


Edited by crashtest, 23 February 2018 - 12:24 PM.

"Doo or Doo not - there is no try" - Yoda

#4 Guest_Idootoo_*

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 05:08 PM

If the issue started when you changed he plugs try another set, they’ve traveled a long way before they ended up in your engine, could’ve been damaged or manufacture defect. Happened to me once on an outboard and drove me crazy.

#5 crashtest

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 11:18 PM

Sorry, I think phrased the question wrong

Does anyone know how the fuel injection works on a 600 etec?

This is how a car works
The injectors stay open (base pulse) based upon a table in the prom
Spark is the same

Map (manifold pressure) , temperature, throttle etc. Tell the computer where to “ look” in the table.
The computer then monitors the sensors to provide a feed back loop to adjust the injector pulse.

I would like to start from the fresh “stock” tables
It saves a half day of riding before the computer learns the optimal fuel and spark settings.

Sled actually runs good - just needs to learn
"Doo or Doo not - there is no try" - Yoda

#6 Daag44

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Posted 24 February 2018 - 12:14 AM

None of that fancy stuff on the ETEC. It's a very basic system.


Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R Turbo?
850 Center Oil line for coolant pump melted
850 Main Oil line caught fire #1 and #2
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's and Ronn's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Diagnoses of a failed ECM
Electrical - Solder vs Crimp
Electrical Diagram for Fanners on page 3
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Electric Start troubleshooting
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC eRAVE position code recurring
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
E-TEC Voltage Rectifier Regulator troubleshooting
E-TEC Power Fades are not normal and can be fixed
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 Steering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Longevity - 800R E-TEC 
Mikuni o-ring for carb float assembly - Arctic Cat part# 6505-875 or from Amazon and eBay
Muffler Red Hot
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pictures - How to post with the correct orientation
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Power Loss - How to diagnose in the field
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Seafoam for E-TEC injectors
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Spark Plugs cracked
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator Removal on page 3
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#7 Funkymasta

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Posted 24 February 2018 - 12:19 AM

It learns nothing i think, its always on the same tables

#8 Daag44

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Posted 24 February 2018 - 12:21 AM

^^^^^  Exactly.

 

More throttle and it knows to give more fuel.

 

More rpm and it knows to give more fuel.

 

 

ETECs are very basic systems. They have secondary inputs that help like Air Temp, Coolant Temp and Air Pressure. You can imagine the variations between sleds.


Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R Turbo?
850 Center Oil line for coolant pump melted
850 Main Oil line caught fire #1 and #2
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's and Ronn's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Diagnoses of a failed ECM
Electrical - Solder vs Crimp
Electrical Diagram for Fanners on page 3
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Electric Start troubleshooting
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC eRAVE position code recurring
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
E-TEC Voltage Rectifier Regulator troubleshooting
E-TEC Power Fades are not normal and can be fixed
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 Steering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Longevity - 800R E-TEC 
Mikuni o-ring for carb float assembly - Arctic Cat part# 6505-875 or from Amazon and eBay
Muffler Red Hot
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pictures - How to post with the correct orientation
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Power Loss - How to diagnose in the field
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Seafoam for E-TEC injectors
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Spark Plugs cracked
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator Removal on page 3
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#9 HemiChallenger

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Posted 24 February 2018 - 12:25 AM

Whatever makes sense with a car you can pretty much throw out the window with a 2 stroke. If you like nitty gritty details read every post daag makes on 2 stoke tuning and performance.



#10 Funkymasta

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Posted 24 February 2018 - 12:31 AM

Gets too warm, it enter a rich state and back up timing to try and help cooling, detonation is detected timin will retard too if im right

#11 crashtest

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Posted 25 February 2018 - 09:59 AM

Wow that hurts - this means that the etec guys should be changing their plugs frequently.
My plugs looked good, but the gap was not stock

I went out yesterday and beat a few guys on 800 - 3’ powder across a lake.
You can tell right away that the new plugs helped.


I would love to see the tables on these machines, makes me wonder.....
I guess then the only thing these computers store are error codes
"Doo or Doo not - there is no try" - Yoda

#12 Funkymasta

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Posted 25 February 2018 - 10:28 AM

They store info too, they just dont learn from it. Go read the thread daag has in his signature if u want to “play” with the tables

#13 stealth bomber

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Posted 25 February 2018 - 12:53 PM

Can you tell me what plugs you used? I want to beat 800's with my 600. Doing it in 3' of powder would be epic.

#14 Daag44

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Posted 25 February 2018 - 01:52 PM

The following may help give an idea how the ECM controls the Fuel and Ignition.

 

 

 

Ignition Timing
2013 Shop Manual - Adobe Reader page 289
The Crankshaft Position Sensor (CPS), the Air Pressure Sensor (APS), and the Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) are the primary sensors used to control the Ignition Timing.

The ECM is programmed with data (ignition mappings). Using engine operating parameters provided by the sensors, the ECM controls the ignition timing for optimum engine operation under all operating conditions.



Throttle Position
2013 Shop Manual - Adobe Reader page 237
TPS will determine the basic parameters for all fuel mapping and several ECM calculations for idle speed control of the engine.


e-RAVE
2013 Shop Manual - Adobe Reader page 110
Many different mappings are used by the ECM to control the 3D RAVE valves. The mappings are based on current engine RPM, crankshaft rate of acceleration or deceleration and the following inputs: intake temperature, TPS, knock sensor, engine coolant temperature and APS.
 
 
Fuel Injection
2013 Shop Manual - Adobe Reader page 234-235
The ECM reads the input signals from different sensors which indicate engine operating conditions at micro-second intervals.

The ECM calculates the proper air/fuel ratio and activates the output to fuel injectors.

Signals from sensors are used by the ECM to determine the injection parameters (fuel maps required for optimum air-fuel ratio).

The crankshaft position sensor (CPS), the Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) are the primary sensors used to control the injectors. Other sensors (like temperature sensors, etc) are used as secondary input.


2013 Shop Manual - Adobe Reader page 253
The correct matching of the fuel injector and cylinder must be confirmed using B.U.D.S. And incorrect match between the fuel injector and cylinder may lead to engine misfiring, improper idling or poor fuel economy.

NOTE: The engine will be able to run with an improperly matched fuel injector. However, the engine may misfire, run rough at idle, have poor fuel economy or run lean.


2013 Shop Manual - Adobe Reader page 237
The fuel injectors provide a stratified fuel charge to the combustion chamber up to clutch engagement speed. Beyond this RPM, the fuel charge becomes homogeneous.

The stratified fuel charge provides a cleaning combustion , better idling and less smoke.

 

Idle Speed
2013 Shop Manual - Adobe Reader page 235
The air flow is controlled by two throttle plates. Each throttle plate has a 6,8 mm (0.268 in) idle port in it.

Since there is a constant airflow through the idle ports of the throttle plates, the idle speed is controlled by the ECM by varying the amount of fuel injected in the combustion chamber and by controlling the injection timing.


Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R Turbo?
850 Center Oil line for coolant pump melted
850 Main Oil line caught fire #1 and #2
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's and Ronn's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Diagnoses of a failed ECM
Electrical - Solder vs Crimp
Electrical Diagram for Fanners on page 3
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Electric Start troubleshooting
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC eRAVE position code recurring
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
E-TEC Voltage Rectifier Regulator troubleshooting
E-TEC Power Fades are not normal and can be fixed
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 Steering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Longevity - 800R E-TEC 
Mikuni o-ring for carb float assembly - Arctic Cat part# 6505-875 or from Amazon and eBay
Muffler Red Hot
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pictures - How to post with the correct orientation
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Power Loss - How to diagnose in the field
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Seafoam for E-TEC injectors
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Spark Plugs cracked
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator Removal on page 3
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#15 Daag44

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Posted 25 February 2018 - 01:59 PM

Can you tell me what plugs you used? I want to beat 800's with my 600. Doing it in 3' of powder would be epic.

 
I imagine he was suggesting those 800s also had plugs that needed to be replaced due to having a worn/wider gap :wink_old:


Edited by Daag44, 14 March 2018 - 02:59 AM.

Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R Turbo?
850 Center Oil line for coolant pump melted
850 Main Oil line caught fire #1 and #2
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's and Ronn's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Diagnoses of a failed ECM
Electrical - Solder vs Crimp
Electrical Diagram for Fanners on page 3
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Electric Start troubleshooting
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC eRAVE position code recurring
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
E-TEC Voltage Rectifier Regulator troubleshooting
E-TEC Power Fades are not normal and can be fixed
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 Steering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Longevity - 800R E-TEC 
Mikuni o-ring for carb float assembly - Arctic Cat part# 6505-875 or from Amazon and eBay
Muffler Red Hot
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pictures - How to post with the correct orientation
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Power Loss - How to diagnose in the field
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Seafoam for E-TEC injectors
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Spark Plugs cracked
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator Removal on page 3
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix





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