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600 etec - real computer geek help needed


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#1 crashtest

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 11:59 AM

Need help with this one

 

I changed the plugs on my 600 etec – sled runs fine, but I can tell that the fuel is off – I only ran it for 2mins

I know these sleds have a learn mode for fueling and spark

I would like to start from the initial tables if possible

 

Does the map/fuel tables get reset after the battery is disconnected? (estart model)

 

On my car I have set up my fuel table based upon the o2 sensor swing at a given rpm/map/temp

When I disconnect the car battery it starts fresh from my  “stock” tables – then it learns from there

 

I have no idea if sleds are the same – not sure how it would work if there was no battery

 

Maybe I will simple have to baby it a little until it learns?


"Doo or Doo not - there is no try" - Yoda

#2 krm

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 12:06 PM

Did you index the plugs ? If not ,that's the problem .



#3 crashtest

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 12:23 PM

yes sir plugs are indexed - correctly


Edited by crashtest, 23 February 2018 - 12:24 PM.

"Doo or Doo not - there is no try" - Yoda

#4 Guest_Idootoo_*

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 05:08 PM

If the issue started when you changed he plugs try another set, they’ve traveled a long way before they ended up in your engine, could’ve been damaged or manufacture defect. Happened to me once on an outboard and drove me crazy.

#5 crashtest

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 11:18 PM

Sorry, I think phrased the question wrong

Does anyone know how the fuel injection works on a 600 etec?

This is how a car works
The injectors stay open (base pulse) based upon a table in the prom
Spark is the same

Map (manifold pressure) , temperature, throttle etc. Tell the computer where to “ look” in the table.
The computer then monitors the sensors to provide a feed back loop to adjust the injector pulse.

I would like to start from the fresh “stock” tables
It saves a half day of riding before the computer learns the optimal fuel and spark settings.

Sled actually runs good - just needs to learn
"Doo or Doo not - there is no try" - Yoda

#6 Daag44

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Posted 24 February 2018 - 12:14 AM

None of that fancy stuff on the ETEC. It's a very basic system.



#7 Funkymasta

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Posted 24 February 2018 - 12:19 AM

It learns nothing i think, its always on the same tables

#8 Daag44

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Posted 24 February 2018 - 12:21 AM

^^^^^  Exactly.

 

More throttle and it knows to give more fuel.

 

More rpm and it knows to give more fuel.

 

 

ETECs are very basic systems. They have secondary inputs that help like Air Temp, Coolant Temp and Air Pressure. You can imagine the variations between sleds.



#9 HemiChallenger

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Posted 24 February 2018 - 12:25 AM

Whatever makes sense with a car you can pretty much throw out the window with a 2 stroke. If you like nitty gritty details read every post daag makes on 2 stoke tuning and performance.



#10 Funkymasta

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Posted 24 February 2018 - 12:31 AM

Gets too warm, it enter a rich state and back up timing to try and help cooling, detonation is detected timin will retard too if im right

#11 crashtest

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Posted 25 February 2018 - 09:59 AM

Wow that hurts - this means that the etec guys should be changing their plugs frequently.
My plugs looked good, but the gap was not stock

I went out yesterday and beat a few guys on 800 - 3’ powder across a lake.
You can tell right away that the new plugs helped.


I would love to see the tables on these machines, makes me wonder.....
I guess then the only thing these computers store are error codes
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#12 Funkymasta

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Posted 25 February 2018 - 10:28 AM

They store info too, they just dont learn from it. Go read the thread daag has in his signature if u want to “play” with the tables

#13 stealth bomber

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Posted 25 February 2018 - 12:53 PM

Can you tell me what plugs you used? I want to beat 800's with my 600. Doing it in 3' of powder would be epic.

#14 Daag44

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Posted 25 February 2018 - 01:52 PM

The following may help give an idea how the ECM controls the Fuel and Ignition.

 

 

 

Ignition Timing
2013 Shop Manual - Adobe Reader page 289
The Crankshaft Position Sensor (CPS), the Air Pressure Sensor (APS), and the Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) are the primary sensors used to control the Ignition Timing.

The ECM is programmed with data (ignition mappings). Using engine operating parameters provided by the sensors, the ECM controls the ignition timing for optimum engine operation under all operating conditions.



Throttle Position
2013 Shop Manual - Adobe Reader page 237
TPS will determine the basic parameters for all fuel mapping and several ECM calculations for idle speed control of the engine.


e-RAVE
2013 Shop Manual - Adobe Reader page 110
Many different mappings are used by the ECM to control the 3D RAVE valves. The mappings are based on current engine RPM, crankshaft rate of acceleration or deceleration and the following inputs: intake temperature, TPS, knock sensor, engine coolant temperature and APS.
 
 
Fuel Injection
2013 Shop Manual - Adobe Reader page 234-235
The ECM reads the input signals from different sensors which indicate engine operating conditions at micro-second intervals.

The ECM calculates the proper air/fuel ratio and activates the output to fuel injectors.

Signals from sensors are used by the ECM to determine the injection parameters (fuel maps required for optimum air-fuel ratio).

The crankshaft position sensor (CPS), the Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) are the primary sensors used to control the injectors. Other sensors (like temperature sensors, etc) are used as secondary input.


2013 Shop Manual - Adobe Reader page 253
The correct matching of the fuel injector and cylinder must be confirmed using B.U.D.S. And incorrect match between the fuel injector and cylinder may lead to engine misfiring, improper idling or poor fuel economy.

NOTE: The engine will be able to run with an improperly matched fuel injector. However, the engine may misfire, run rough at idle, have poor fuel economy or run lean.


2013 Shop Manual - Adobe Reader page 237
The fuel injectors provide a stratified fuel charge to the combustion chamber up to clutch engagement speed. Beyond this RPM, the fuel charge becomes homogeneous.

The stratified fuel charge provides a cleaning combustion , better idling and less smoke.

 

Idle Speed
2013 Shop Manual - Adobe Reader page 235
The air flow is controlled by two throttle plates. Each throttle plate has a 6,8 mm (0.268 in) idle port in it.

Since there is a constant airflow through the idle ports of the throttle plates, the idle speed is controlled by the ECM by varying the amount of fuel injected in the combustion chamber and by controlling the injection timing.



#15 Daag44

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Posted 25 February 2018 - 01:59 PM

Can you tell me what plugs you used? I want to beat 800's with my 600. Doing it in 3' of powder would be epic.

 
I imagine he was suggesting those 800s also had plugs that needed to be replaced due to having a worn/wider gap :wink_old:


Edited by Daag44, 14 March 2018 - 02:59 AM.





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