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How remove wire from SDI capacitor 30A fuse holder?


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#1 aDOOrondack

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 07:43 PM

600 SDI -manual start

Need to replace broken capacitor (+) open barrel connector at battery.

At top and bottom of 30A fuse holder, tabs appear to hold each wire.

Fabricated the two pieces in photo to compress both tabs then pull wire out of fuse holder, but no success and don't want to force it.

Should this work, or is there a better way to remove wire/connector from the 30A fuse holder?

 

Also, appreciate recommendations where to find:

  • Heavy-Duty open barrel connector similar to OEM (dealer had none) 
  • Heavy clear shrink tube similar to OEM?

Thanks

Attached Images

  • remove wire 30A fuse.jpg
  • remove wire 30A fuse -batt conn B4 broke.jpg
  • remove wire 30A fuse a.jpg


#2 Daag44

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 11:26 PM

I haven't don't this in a while, so this is how I remember it. I think that you need to push the terminals in as far as they go and then insert you unlocking tools from the fuse side and one on each side of the terminal. Probably clearer with a picture.

 

For the Heavy-Duty open barrel connector and clear shrink tube similar to OEM, I hit the same roadblock. Hopefully someone knows where to source the premium products. I have had too much trouble with the cheapo aftermarket connectors that I gladly pay for the good stuff. I add dielectric grease and it's good for years.

 

 

30A Fuse Socket - Locking ears for the terminals - Markup.jpg


Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R P-TEK Electrical Troubleshooting #1 and #2 
800R Turbo
850 Center Oil line for coolant pump melted
850 Main Oil line caught fire #1 and #2
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's and Ronn's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Electrical - Diagnoses of a failed ECM
Electrical - 30A Battery Charging Fuse Socket Diagnoses and Relay
Electrical - Relay Coil Wine
Electrical - Relay Testing
Electrical - Battery Charging Relay Diagnostic 
Electrical - Troubleshooting with BRP video 
Electrical - Solder vs Crimp
Electrical - Diagram for Fanners on page 3
Engine Break-In 
Engine Weight 
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Electric Start troubleshooting
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC eRAVE position code recurring
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
E-TEC Voltage Rectifier Regulator troubleshooting
E-TEC Power Fades are not normal and can be fixed
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 Steering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Longevity - 800R E-TEC 
Mikuni o-ring for carb float assembly - Arctic Cat part# 6505-875 or from Amazon and eBay
Muffler Red Hot
Off-trail riding for flatlanders
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pictures - How to post with the correct orientation
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Power Loss - How to diagnose in the field
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Seafoam for E-TEC injectors
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Spark Plugs cracked
Squish - The limit
Squish - A discussion on head design
Stator and Relay Diagnostic 
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator Removal on page 3
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix

#3 Daag44

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 11:31 PM

By the way, the picture shows the orientation of the terminal in the correct die for a proper crimp. The other side of the die that we can't see (bottom of the picture) has the W shape to fold the ears onto the middle of the wire.


Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R P-TEK Electrical Troubleshooting #1 and #2 
800R Turbo
850 Center Oil line for coolant pump melted
850 Main Oil line caught fire #1 and #2
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's and Ronn's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Electrical - Diagnoses of a failed ECM
Electrical - 30A Battery Charging Fuse Socket Diagnoses and Relay
Electrical - Relay Coil Wine
Electrical - Relay Testing
Electrical - Battery Charging Relay Diagnostic 
Electrical - Troubleshooting with BRP video 
Electrical - Solder vs Crimp
Electrical - Diagram for Fanners on page 3
Engine Break-In 
Engine Weight 
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Electric Start troubleshooting
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC eRAVE position code recurring
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
E-TEC Voltage Rectifier Regulator troubleshooting
E-TEC Power Fades are not normal and can be fixed
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 Steering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Longevity - 800R E-TEC 
Mikuni o-ring for carb float assembly - Arctic Cat part# 6505-875 or from Amazon and eBay
Muffler Red Hot
Off-trail riding for flatlanders
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pictures - How to post with the correct orientation
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Power Loss - How to diagnose in the field
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Seafoam for E-TEC injectors
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Spark Plugs cracked
Squish - The limit
Squish - A discussion on head design
Stator and Relay Diagnostic 
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator Removal on page 3
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix

#4 Daag44

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 11:45 PM

Another thing, before working on the electrical you can discharge the Capacitor using a test light. You may have already read this in the Shop Manual, but I thought to mention it.


Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R P-TEK Electrical Troubleshooting #1 and #2 
800R Turbo
850 Center Oil line for coolant pump melted
850 Main Oil line caught fire #1 and #2
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's and Ronn's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Electrical - Diagnoses of a failed ECM
Electrical - 30A Battery Charging Fuse Socket Diagnoses and Relay
Electrical - Relay Coil Wine
Electrical - Relay Testing
Electrical - Battery Charging Relay Diagnostic 
Electrical - Troubleshooting with BRP video 
Electrical - Solder vs Crimp
Electrical - Diagram for Fanners on page 3
Engine Break-In 
Engine Weight 
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Electric Start troubleshooting
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC eRAVE position code recurring
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
E-TEC Voltage Rectifier Regulator troubleshooting
E-TEC Power Fades are not normal and can be fixed
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 Steering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Longevity - 800R E-TEC 
Mikuni o-ring for carb float assembly - Arctic Cat part# 6505-875 or from Amazon and eBay
Muffler Red Hot
Off-trail riding for flatlanders
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pictures - How to post with the correct orientation
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Power Loss - How to diagnose in the field
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Seafoam for E-TEC injectors
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Spark Plugs cracked
Squish - The limit
Squish - A discussion on head design
Stator and Relay Diagnostic 
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator Removal on page 3
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix

#5 aDOOrondack

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Posted 27 September 2017 - 05:24 PM

Daag44, your reply gave me more confidence-

Inserted the unlocking tools and was able to grab the terminal with tip of needle nose pliers. A firm tug and popped right out.

 

Regarding parts/fix, plan to take everything to the shop that fixes my cars and see if they can help, or redirect me to a good resource.

If I hit a dead-end on OEM quality barrel connector and shrink tube, will post again and hope somebody here can help w/that.

 

Wire is fuse-to-battery, therefore working with the fuse removed so the capacitor is not a factor.

 

THANKS- appreciate your help!



#6 Daag44

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Posted 27 September 2017 - 06:18 PM

Nice to see the plan came together!

 

See the MachZ forum or click here for someone who just recently mentioned their favorite clear shrink tube. Maybe they can help :)


Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R P-TEK Electrical Troubleshooting #1 and #2 
800R Turbo
850 Center Oil line for coolant pump melted
850 Main Oil line caught fire #1 and #2
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's and Ronn's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Electrical - Diagnoses of a failed ECM
Electrical - 30A Battery Charging Fuse Socket Diagnoses and Relay
Electrical - Relay Coil Wine
Electrical - Relay Testing
Electrical - Battery Charging Relay Diagnostic 
Electrical - Troubleshooting with BRP video 
Electrical - Solder vs Crimp
Electrical - Diagram for Fanners on page 3
Engine Break-In 
Engine Weight 
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Electric Start troubleshooting
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC eRAVE position code recurring
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
E-TEC Voltage Rectifier Regulator troubleshooting
E-TEC Power Fades are not normal and can be fixed
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 Steering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Longevity - 800R E-TEC 
Mikuni o-ring for carb float assembly - Arctic Cat part# 6505-875 or from Amazon and eBay
Muffler Red Hot
Off-trail riding for flatlanders
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pictures - How to post with the correct orientation
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Power Loss - How to diagnose in the field
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Seafoam for E-TEC injectors
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Spark Plugs cracked
Squish - The limit
Squish - A discussion on head design
Stator and Relay Diagnostic 
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator Removal on page 3
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix

#7 DirtNap

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 12:27 PM

I would check https://www.grainger.com/ or https://www.mcmaster.com/#



#8 Daag44

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 05:39 PM

I don't think Grainger or McMasters will have those. We need to find a specialty store. I found F-Crimp is one name given to this type or terminal. I also found a site that called it an European Double Crimp. I just started looking, but once I began to use F-Crimp as the keyword search then a plethora of results came up.
 
I remember BlueMax speaking to me about crimp vs solder. I couldn't remember the problem until I found an explanation that that I copied below and highlighted in red. Also found a Quality Crimping Handbook in PDF (click the link). Page 30 has interesting pictures of various insulation crimps from Preferred to Marginal quality.
 
Here is one more web site - Cycle Terminal - that I found interesting as it is dedicated to OEM style terminals and connectors for Motorsports. It also has a section for Crimp Tools.
 
 
The following has been copied from WriteOpinions.com 

Edit: I just realized it is the same or at least near the same text as Wikipedia (click here).
 
http://www.writeopinions.com/f-crimp
 

F-crimp is a type of solderless electrical crimp connection. It is not related to the F connector common in RF equipment.
It is sometimes referred to as open-barrel, which is technically a more general term including crimp types such as Weather Pack and Metri Pack.
 
F-crimp is a more mechanically robust crimp connection compared to the common barrel-crimp type readily available at retail locations (Radio Shack, Home Depot, etc.). It also has an optional second crimp section that crimps to the insulation, providing strain relief. Because of these characteristics, automobiles use F-crimp almost exclusively. F-crimp was devised to eliminate the need for soldered connections - crimping can be preferred to soldering in mass production because it is easier to reproduce reliable connections. These connections, when made with ratcheting application tooling, provide a solderless, "gas-tight" connection. F-crimp connections are never soldered as application of solder can lead to fracturing of the wire conductor.

The term F-crimp was originally coined by AMP Inc (AMP was a simplification of the company's original name, Aircraft and Marine Products Inc), now Tyco-AMP Electronics, however terminals of this style are currently manufactured by multiple companies. Crimpers are available from multiple sources: manufactures of the connectors typically offer industrial crimp devices for high volume production, and specialty hand tools companies such as Ideal, Eclipse and Paladin offer dies for hand crimpers. For instance, Ideal die #30-586 and Paladin die #2033 are designed for open barrel / F-crimp connectors. Non-AMP crimpers are available in "ratcheting" ("Certi-Crimp") and non-ratcheting versions, but only ratcheting types are suitable for production applications, with non-ratcheting types being suitable for occasional, or "field" repairs.
 
 
 
F-Crimp.jpg
 
 
F-Crimp Cross Section.jpg


Edited by Daag44, 28 September 2017 - 05:46 PM.

Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R P-TEK Electrical Troubleshooting #1 and #2 
800R Turbo
850 Center Oil line for coolant pump melted
850 Main Oil line caught fire #1 and #2
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's and Ronn's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Electrical - Diagnoses of a failed ECM
Electrical - 30A Battery Charging Fuse Socket Diagnoses and Relay
Electrical - Relay Coil Wine
Electrical - Relay Testing
Electrical - Battery Charging Relay Diagnostic 
Electrical - Troubleshooting with BRP video 
Electrical - Solder vs Crimp
Electrical - Diagram for Fanners on page 3
Engine Break-In 
Engine Weight 
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Electric Start troubleshooting
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC eRAVE position code recurring
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
E-TEC Voltage Rectifier Regulator troubleshooting
E-TEC Power Fades are not normal and can be fixed
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 Steering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Longevity - 800R E-TEC 
Mikuni o-ring for carb float assembly - Arctic Cat part# 6505-875 or from Amazon and eBay
Muffler Red Hot
Off-trail riding for flatlanders
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pictures - How to post with the correct orientation
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Power Loss - How to diagnose in the field
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Seafoam for E-TEC injectors
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Spark Plugs cracked
Squish - The limit
Squish - A discussion on head design
Stator and Relay Diagnostic 
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator Removal on page 3
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix

#9 stealth bomber

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 06:14 PM

Good article. It says that they are never soldered, which is not entirely true. GM has us solder certain airbag terminals. But that's not copper wire. I agree soldering copper wire makes it brittle and prone to break if there is any movement at the joint.

#10 aDOOrondack

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 06:55 PM

Went to NAPA today and they recommended a Sealed Crimp & Solder-Ring Terminal (pic).

$8 for three, but robust/good quality and therefore agreed this will work.

 

Now have read the latest posts regarding "F-crimp never soldered" -

Should I have any doubts about using this product?

The wire shouldn't move after crimped in the solder-coated receiver.

 

Thanks for your replies!

 

 

Attached Images

  • NAPA ring terminal.jpg
  • NAPA ring terminal -a.jpg
  • NAPA ring terminal -b.jpg


#11 stealth bomber

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 07:12 PM

I'm sure those will be fine. They're used every day in automotive applications.

#12 aDOOrondack

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 07:44 PM

NICE.

Stealth Bomber, thanks to you and the other DooTalk Problem Solvers for your replies-

All set to fix now!



#13 Daag44

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 11:29 PM

Good article. It says that they are never soldered, which is not entirely true. GM has us solder certain airbag terminals. But that's not copper wire. I agree soldering copper wire makes it brittle and prone to break if there is any movement at the joint.

 
In some circumstances like a fix, it may be better to crimp and solder to ensure a secure and good connection. In the case of the airbag the problem was with a yellow 2/4/6-way connector under the seat that would suffer from a poor connection between the terminals. The added resistance could either trigger a code or even prevent the side and center airbags from deploying. Since the yellow connectors were difficult to repair the next best choice was to remove/snip the yellow connector and crimp splice clips then solder using a butane torch.
 
It almost sounds like I know what I'm talking about, doesn't? I don't! :)  But seriously, whether it is BRP or GM and that issues a Recall Bulletin for any type of a fix, they need to consider all the options. In this case I would guess vibration, corrosion and effective repair. For vibrations I don't see this as an issue under a seat. If it was a connection on the engine I don't think this would have worked.
 
GM said that corrosion was a possibility. They didn't explain how corrosion could reach under the seat, but we all have driven cars and trucks in the winter to notice our boots carry enough salt and calcium to build a crust. Salt/calcium mixed with the humid air can cause all sorts of problems.
 
GM also mentioned a possibility of loose terminal connections, so that could have been a manufacturing defect. In either case, corrosion or a loose connection could cause the airbags and pretensioners to not deploy in a crash.
 
The Effective Repair - I made-up that term - is where I think it gets really interesting. On an assembly line everything is done in accordance to whatever standard to reach the highest possible quality for the most reasonable cost. We know in this case there was a problem. Was it the manufacturing defect? If I was a gambling man I would think the wrong connector or location was chosen for the application. This connector was used for 6 productions years between 2008 and 2013. That is a long time before putting out a Recall Bulletin. This is what leads me to suspect corrosion was likely a larger factor then loose connections.

My guess is the connector was eventually changed in later models, or the harness was changed to re-route the connector differently, or whatever. The point is GM had to work a fix that would be applied by thousands of different certified techs, and perhaps even across various countries. In the end GM have no choice but to choose a method of repair that was cost effective and had proven to work in the past. I don't believe this kind of fix would be done on an assembly line which raises a whole other set of questions. For what we are concerned with I think we can consider the solder or crimp/solder method as reliable, at least to a point.
 
The Heat Shrink Tube is what I believe is key for any join as it adds a layer of strain relief. However, it can also cause a weak point. If you go back to the second picture in the first post, you can see a whitish discoloration near the end of the heavy duty clear shrink tube. The OEM shrink tube is of higher quality, but it is also more rigid and seems to leave a stress point. It has me thinking that maybe I am not so bad off with the cheaper shrink tubing that I use. Or I could use a rigid piece for the connector and use a more flexible transition piece for added strain relief. I would be hard pressed to find a circumstance when this was needed, but just the thought of it has me considering how to better to route/bend the wires. If we go back to that red wire in the picture with the ring terminal, it bolts to the battery positive terminal. It reminds me that I have seen that wire break in the same spot. We tend the bend the wire to follow a desired path, so each time we do this it creates a kink at its weakest point. In this case it would be near the shrink tube. That alone is enough for me to pay more attention to how I manipulate the wires.
 
 
Below is the GM Recall Bulletin that I found. Thanks for sharing a real case from an auto manufacturer. I would not have known to look had you not mentioned it. In return I think we should take another look any Ski-Doo Shop Manual to see how they suggest making a repair to a broken wire.
 
GM Recall Bulletin for the Side Impact Airbag Connector
 
https://www.lawsonpr...TSB14030_AD.pdf

 

 

Edit: I completely forget the pictures!!!

 

 

GM Side Impact Airbag Connector - Yellow Connectors.jpg

 

GM Side Impact Airbag Connector - Strip Wires.jpg

 

GM Side Impact Airbag Connector - crimp splice clips.jpg

 

GM Side Impact Airbag Connector - solder crimp splice clips with butane torch.jpg

 

GM Side Impact Airbag Connector - heat shrink tube.jpg

 

 


Edited by Daag44, 28 September 2017 - 11:38 PM.

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#14 stealth bomber

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 10:19 AM

They were having us solder F-type terminals on an older passenger side instrument panel airbag inflator recall on HHR's.  Crimping on new terminals and then solder before inserting into the connector body.   

I've done a ton of the recalls you showed pics of.  Funny thing is, our shop never had a problem with those particular connectors.  Other vehicles like Impala we have had lots of problems with high resistance connections under the seat and those have never been recalled.   

The shrink tube shown with the glue inside is quite rigid once hardened.  Therefore the brittle point where the solder is applied is protected from movement that might otherwise cause the joint to break.  



#15 aDOOrondack

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 07:01 PM

Daag44, the text of your apparently since-deleted email questioning my judgement was received in an email notification for new posts to this thread.

Response-

I went to my (large/well-known) Doo dealer for an equivalent crimp: dead-end.

I then posted here, and appreciate your engagement to help find an OEM equivalent, but nobody provided the hoped-for response-

ie: "I found the OEM-quality replacement you're looking for, it's P/N XXX at Acme Corp that I installed 5YR ago and no issues". 

Apparently a topic without a large body of knowledge/experience in DooTalk Land -no problem with that.

Apologies, but no confidence that searching websites and ordering parts with no specific DooTalk recommendation guarantees an OEM-quality replacement.

Next stop was the garage that repairs my cars, and they sent me to NAPA saying they had a big selection of quality stuff.

An older and apparently very knowledgeable guy at NAPA strongly recommended the part that I bought, and assured me it was perfectly fine for this application.

I want to do things right, but don't have the base of knowledge you and others on this forum have. Therefore I rely on advice from the experts on these topics.

I certainly did want the OEM-quality replacement, based on a goal of doing things right (not on knowledge of crimps). Obviously, I tried.

I accepted the recommendation of the NAPA guy because the part appears very robust and of good quality. 

Stealth Bomber then offered his opinion that this part will work fine, and that was good enough for me.

 

I didn't find the OEM replacement, but don't think the compromise is "going backwards" far enough to be questionable as an adequate replacement(?)

 

Any further perspective always welcome, and thanks again.






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