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The Downfall of the 1000 SDI ???


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#106 Daag44

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 01:10 AM

Ben, it is a good idea to first call your dealer and ask if they can update the map. If there is a problem just post the name of the dealer.


Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R Turbo?
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Diagnoses
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#107 Ben063

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 04:38 PM

I Will,
the sled has always been maintained by Adrénaline in Québec, they certainly have the history.
Cheers

#108 Ben063

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 05:28 PM

01 Déc 2014
........................Maximum.........Minimum

......?.......Rpm........8192.............64
..............PSI..........20..............1
..............TEMPS........84..............-4
......ENGINE TEMPS (F).....157..............7
.........battery.....15.29...........9.49

I Never seen a BUD report, so I dont Know if it's Good.

Edited by Ben063, 21 October 2017 - 06:01 PM.


#109 Daag44

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 06:52 PM

01 Déc 2014
........................Maximum.........Minimum

......?.......Rpm........8192.............64
..............PSI..........20..............1
..............TEMPS........84..............-4
......ENGINE TEMPS (F).....157..............7
.........battery.....15.29...........9.49

I Never seen a BUD report, so I dont Know if it's Good.

 

Looks good to me. I wanted to make sure the engine temp hadn't gone to high and it didn't.


Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R Turbo?
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Diagnoses
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#110 Daag44

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Posted 05 November 2017 - 05:34 PM

Y-Pipe Bolts

 

 

I found an interesting explanation to the y-pipe bolts on the 850 forum. Click here for the original post.

 

I will summarize only as I'm highjacking this thread. The problem is that it isn't a hard joint. It has a compressible component (gasket). There's 2 types of loosening. Rotational and non rotational. Locktite and nordlocks are designed for rotational loosening. The y pipe is non rotational loosening. That means after thermal cycles when the temp increases the joint expands and creates an additional force on the gasket. When it cools some of the torque (or preload in the bolt) is lost. The bolt didn't rotate but the joint becomes thinner. So now much of the friction that prevents self loosening is also lost. (about 90 % of the energy that goes into torquing a bolt is used to overcome friction!) After the preload is lost then the bolt can rotate loose. It's the thread and bearing friction that helps prevents self loosening. If you have low preload you have low friction. If you were to just simply retorque a few times it will/does stabilize. The locktite will only prevent the bolt from falling out after the preload is lost. But you may still have a leak because some of the clamp load has been lost. The nordlock also only works when there's a preload on the bolt. The reason it seems to work in this case is because you are removing the bolt adding the washers and retorquing. If you were just to retorque it would also be fine. I retorque mine once at 20 hours and they have never moved again.

There's a few things the assembly line can do to prevent this. One is thermal cycle and retorque after it cools. Testing would need to be done to determine if once is enough.

Dc electric tools with multiple spindles and torque to yield is another expensive option. This is how a majority of the engine manufacture do it. Think about a cly head. Same deal with a gasket. It's extremely rare to hear of issues on modern day engines. I always use engines as an example. You would be hard pressed to find any locking devices on engines. That's because when done right they are absolutely not needed.

I hope this makes sense. Very hard to explain everything in a message.


Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R Turbo?
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Diagnoses
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#111 Daag44

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 03:45 PM

There is a hard copy of a 2005 Shop Manual on sale for $10 that is worth at the very least $20 to $40. It needs a few small corrections in torque specs, but otherwise well worth the money. I suggest offering $20 + shipping cost. We have all the soft copies, so there is no need to spend money on those. This is just good to have without the need to carry a laptop around.

 

 

http://www.dootalk.c...00-shop-manual/


Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R Turbo?
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Diagnoses
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#112 bnorth

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 05:34 PM

There is a hard copy of a 2005 Shop Manual on sale for $10 that is worth at the very least $20 to $40. It needs a few small corrections in torque specs, but otherwise well worth the money. I suggest offering $20 + shipping cost. We have all the soft copies, so there is no need to spend money on those. This is just good to have without the need to carry a laptop around.

 

 

http://www.dootalk.c...00-shop-manual/

 

That manual and a lot of reading on this site got me through 2 RT1K's. 

 

The first was purchased as a stock 05 summit 162 in Dec 2010 and I went hog wild trying to 'solve' all the known issues before I had hardly ridden the thing to see how it actually worked. It was always a bit of a lemon even after deleting the rear cooler, grounding the motor and replacing the fuel pump. I cleaned and synced the eRAVES numerous times but they never worked consistently. Eventually I found a post from who I believe was the original owner and the issue had materialized after he added aftermarket bars. I eventually found a defective coolant temp sensor in the head and had the eRAVES working just in time to lose the PTO big end rod bearing. 

 

While researching and debating a rebuild to that motor I stumbled across a full carbon chassis sled that had also lost the PTO big end. I bought it and pulled the motor to rebuild. The rod had worn through the inside of case and into the water jacket so I had it welded and then clearanced for the crank. Big John at SHR sent me a trued and welded crank, Wossner (IIRC) pistons with a ceramic top coat and teflon on the skirts and a fresh jug that he had set the P2W to spec for me (Can't recall for sure but I believe I requested a bit looser fit than stock). I hand filed the rings (also looser than stock IIRC) as I planned to spray the motor and didn't want to top a piston top off. Set the squish spec on the tight end of the factory spec put in cleaned and tested injectors and ran it. Motor ran strong for a season before I sold it. Never did end up spraying it as I was never quite happy with the tuning through the BD box. 


2019 Alpha 800 165

1997 Kitty Cat

 

Previous:

17 174 SP

14 163X

05 Vertical Composites 1000 162

05 RT1000 162


#113 Daag44

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 07:50 PM

That manual and a lot of reading on this site got me through 2 RT1K's. 
 
The first was purchased as a stock 05 summit 162 in Dec 2010 and I went hog wild trying to 'solve' all the known issues before I had hardly ridden the thing to see how it actually worked. It was always a bit of a lemon even after deleting the rear cooler, grounding the motor and replacing the fuel pump. I cleaned and synced the eRAVES numerous times but they never worked consistently. Eventually I found a post from who I believe was the original owner and the issue had materialized after he added aftermarket bars. I eventually found a defective coolant temp sensor in the head and had the eRAVES working just in time to lose the PTO big end rod bearing. 
 
While researching and debating a rebuild to that motor I stumbled across a full carbon chassis sled that had also lost the PTO big end. I bought it and pulled the motor to rebuild. The rod had worn through the inside of case and into the water jacket so I had it welded and then clearances for the crank. Big John at SHR sent me a trued and welded crank, Wossner (IIRC) pistons with a ceramic top coat and teflon on the skirts and a fresh jug that he had set the P2W to spec for me (Can't recall for sure but I believe I requested a bit looser fit than stock). I hand filed the rings (also looser than stock IIRC) as I planned to spray the motor and didn't want to top a piston top off. Set the squish spec on the tight end of the factory spec put in cleaned and tested injectors and ran it. Motor ran strong for a season before I sold it. Never did end up spraying it as I was never quite happy with the tuning through the BD box.

 
Ironically the manual and reading on this site got me more mixed-up than anything. For example, does the engine  at 5,000 miles need a new top and bottom end? Who on this planet will have the correct answer without an actual visual examination of the parts along with measurements of the parts?
 
I always recommend new owners to pay attention to those who have reached near or over 10,000 miles. These are the owners who can show what this engine can accomplish. At the same time I suggest to consider the mileage and work a preventive maintenance schedule long before reaching that kind of high mileage. For a Summit RT the time to consider an inspection is sooner than later. 
 
In the end it comes down to listening carefully to those who have reached the highest mileage and categorize them between Trail (MachZ RT and Renegade RT) and Off-Trail (Summit RT). While us Trail owner are looking or 10,000-12,000 miles, the Off-Trail owners are looking for 3,000-4,000 miles.
 
In my opinion, both the Trail and Off-Trail sleds can reach double their expected mileage, but only by being conscientious of their weaknesses and building on each other's experiences. While this may appear improbable or a fantasy, my own experience shows that it is possible. The kicker is that others have shown from experience that it could be done.

Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R Turbo?
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Diagnoses
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#114 Ben063

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 09:52 PM

DAAG,

 

I read that you pre-mix 100:1, I will also do that on my 1000 SDI. Did you re-ajust your oil pump, if yes, at what distance did you re-ajust your oil pump. My intention is to run it with mineral in the oil pump, and full synthtic in in fuel.
Thanks



#115 Daag44

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Posted 30 November 2017 - 01:14 AM

DAAG,
 
I read that you pre-mix 100:1, I will also do that on my 1000 SDI. Did you re-adjust your oil pump, if yes, at what distance did you re-adjust your oil pump. My intention is to run it with mineral in the oil pump, and full synthetic in in fuel.
Thanks

 
Ben, I adjust my oil pump at 16mm to 16.5 mm, then I run the sled with 100:1 until I am confident that for my type of riding the oil injection delivery comes out to 40:1 to 36:1
 
It is important to note that I am a liberal when it comes to oil quantity in the sense that I do not hold myself to a precise ratio nor recipe. However, what I gave you is my starting point for the oil cable adjustment and premix ratios on all Ski-Doos including carbs and SDI. It is the same principal with the ETECs, except those have to be worked-out a little differently.
 
Click here for an actual ETEC case and you can follow how I approach the subject and the reasons behind it. This can serve to show how easy we have it for the 1000 SDI. For example, prior to an engine re-assembly we need to perform the following checks which takes roughly 15min.
 

1. Unplug the Oil delivery hose from the oil pump and check the oil is free free flowing. We also have the option to replace the oil filter followed by the same check.
 
2. Turn the oil pump using a high speed drill to ensure the oil is in fact delivered through both oil injectors in the crankcase. This way we are assured that oil will delivered the oil to the engine and this also primes the oil lines. This is done by fitting a very short piece of clear hose over the oil pump drive shaft and a sock that fits tight.
 
   - The Oil Pump wears with age and either needs to be replaced or machined to fit a bearing.
 
3. Replace oil lines if/when needed. The drill driven oil pump test will show any leaks. Be very careful with the small diameter hoses that run from the oil pump to the crankcase. Some new hoses fit too tightly and require too much pressure to fit on the oil pump that it can damage the fittings.
 
4. Test the check valve on the Oil Tank Vent Line. Also perform this test as part of preseason inspection. Same with the gas tank vents.
 
5. Route the Oil Tank Vent Line correctly. The end of the line should be higher than where it fits into the oil tank. Same with the gas tank vents and ensure the lines don't form a p-traps.

Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R Turbo?
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Diagnoses
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#116 Ben063

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Posted 30 November 2017 - 04:32 PM

Thanks a lot. I tried to reach you on your pm but it did not work.
Regards

Edited by Ben063, 30 November 2017 - 04:43 PM.


#117 YELLOW-FEVER

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Posted 01 December 2017 - 09:33 PM

Daag44, Awesome thread! This is my new bible! Thank you! "The downfall of the 1000 SDI ???" Not on my watch! :) With all the info available from all the fellow Doo heads, two years ago I made my 1000SDI brand spanking new top to bottom with absolutely every reliability trick I could find! I applaud the 1000sdi freaks out there that came before me that have figured this beast out! Thank you from the bottom of my heart and wallet! I guess I did ok since that was 2 years ago now and don't want to jinx it but it runs well! :) Maybe I can finally contribute something because I feel like a leech! Not sure if I should make a new thread or just stick this here? I'm thinking about trying a SDI/TBI setup on my 1000 this winter.
The new 850 has "secondary" injectors at the throttle bodies. SDI has all the injectors in the transfer ports. Why didn't Doo add the extra injectors to the transfers on the new 850? One would think that in the transfers like the SDI, it would give better atomization than at the throttles. Why add extra injectors at all when I'm sure they could have done it with just the 2 direct E-Tec injectors? Did they finally realize putting some fuel back through the reeds and bottom end was a really really good thing? Hmmmmmmmm? 
Cat 1000 throttle bodies have the injectors at a pretty good tilt so it may be tight but looks like they may work with a modification or two? Can anyone think of a better throttle body to try than the cat 1000? The new 850 throttles look like a possible fit as well with mods if they are large enough? Anyone have any specs like size and possibly center to center distance on the 850? The 850 ones look pretty narrow but the 1000 reed boots taper in if I remember correct so it may be an easier TBI to mod if they are already closer?
I've spent a ton of time here and there doing as much research as I could to get ready for this and I think I'll try to make it work even if I have to piggyback a Megasquirt to the factory stuff but this may be a more simple alternative. I'm thinking leave the secondaries in the transfers and move the mains to the throttles with my 2 injector boondocker box. Swap connectors for those 2 injectors in the throttles so it will spray at open reeds and that would give a squirt with open reeds near TDC and another normal SDI squirt near BDC for each cylinder. Maybe use an extra set of the larger flow brown injectors for the mains vs the blue at the throttle body's to compensate for the fuel being less atomized having to travel all the way from the throttle bodies. I know the secondary injectors act like an accelerator pump at lower rpm and it would still be getting a nice half a normal SDI injection event at BDC and other half TBI injection event. Some sleds use just TBI so half and half should work just fine as long as the air is still flowing into the reeds when the TBI injectors fire near TDC with them swapped cyl to cyl. The boondocker box can pull fuel as well as add it where ever needed so this may work ok. I've been playing with the boondocker box and an innovate wideband for a couple years since a top to bottom rebuild. I was able to totally smooth out the surging at low speeds negotiating tight trails, light throttle. Fattened up the midrange a bunch since AFR was hitting 17+ midrange cruising. If I played with the throttle I could find just the right spots where AFR would skyrocket and I would freak out, back out and boondocker up in that range. Felt exactly like the range I was cruising in that one day when one piston got a little too tight and squeaked on the lake. I know a few have tried to relocate the injectors but not sure if they did all 4 and what other changes they tried if any to make it all work? Any and all thoughts, questions and or input is greatly appreciated! Long live the 1000 TBSDI LOL!  If this works well enough, I'll have a spare set of holes for a 3rd set of injectors if I decide to turbo the thing some day?

#118 CrazyBill

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Posted 01 December 2017 - 09:59 PM

That is an interesting idea. You have my attention.

Bill

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#119 YELLOW-FEVER

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Posted 01 December 2017 - 10:18 PM

Should be a piece of cake once the throttle body is mounted and totally reverseable if it just plain doesn't work. Cat 1000 throttles are pretty cheap and with any luck the doo injectors will fit the cat mounts? Pics look close. If the TPS on the cat throttle is not close enough in voltage setup, I'm sure I can rig something up to work there too. I had to remote mount a TPS on a car I have because the water meth injection kit was forcing water/meth down the thtottle shaft and into the TPS sensor :)

#120 Daag44

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Posted 02 December 2017 - 01:14 AM

Welcome to the 1000 SDI religion :)
 
 
Not sure if I should make a new thread or just stick this here?
 
Feel free to do either.
 
 
I'm thinking about trying a SDI/TBI setup on my 1000 this winter.
 
I have heard of this being tried and even plans on going to market. Never heard of it since.
 

The new 850 has "secondary" injectors at the throttle bodies. SDI has all the injectors in the transfer ports. Why didn't Doo add the extra injectors to the transfers on the new 850?
 
I suspect one of the reasons is simplicity. Adding injectors to the transfers or slightly above is easier than it looks. It also takes away area in the cylinder that could otherwise be used for cooling.
 
 
One would think that in the transfers like the SDI, it would give better atomization than at the throttles.
 
The secret to better atomization with Throttle Body Injection is the Porck Chop design of the Crank Webs. By the time Arctic Cat figured this out and perfected it, they went to and SDI while BRP sneaked by and designed it into an existing Direct Injection. It was brilliant.
 
 
Why add extra injectors at all when I'm sure they could have done it with just the 2 direct E-Tec injectors?
 
I am not sure what you mean with 2 ETEC injectors. If your thinking 2 injectors per head, then there is simply no room. They are large and heavy.
 
 
Did they finally realize putting some fuel back through the reeds and bottom end was a really really good thing?
 
Easier and more reliable fuel delivery as the ETEC injectors were near maxed-out on the 800s. But yes you are right there is an advantage to sending fuel to the bottom end. However, all 3 manufacturers have been well aware of this advantage since the beginning of time. For instance, while Arctic Cat has moved away from TBI, they still feed fuel to the lower end with their SDI, and they also use a Complementary Premix to boot! I heard that even BRP has converted their new race 600 to an ETEC with TBI running on Premix! Sounds familiar to what many of us 1000 SDI owners have been doing to help with reliability and longevity.....
 
By the way, reeds get oiled by the oil midst in the Lower End.
 
 
I've been playing with the boondocker box and an innovate wideband for a couple years since a top to bottom rebuild.
 
Now that's promising. Did you find a lean spot in the midrange? And a fat wot?
 
 
I was able to totally smooth out the surging at low speeds negotiating tight trails, light throttle. Fattened up the midrange a bunch since AFR was hitting 17+ midrange cruising.
 
There it is, the notorious Lean Midrange! I had that too and got it fixed with zero mods. I had been told on DooTalk to get a Wideband, but no one told me what to expect as readings. So I went out riding debating the ratio, and debating some more with zero reference to go by. It drove me bananas. A week went by and I came to the scientific conclusion that a Lean Midrange and Pig Rich WOT could not be normal. So I spent the most frustrating week trying to find a dealer who would fix it until I was forced to find another tactic to get it done.
 
So I can understand why some have found good reason to use a Fuel Controller. Unless one finds the way to fix a mapping problem, there really is no other alternative. The kicker is that the 800RE are riddled with these problems just as bad or worse than the 1000 SDI. This is the reason that I believe BRP has been replacing them with the 850 ETEC. Magically all those crazy problems that plagued the 800 ETEC are gone.
 
Anyways, I went from a Lean Midrange to a normal and steady ratio, and Pig Rich 10.9 @ wot to low 12s. I figure only a small percentage of 1000 SDIs are running way out in the left field, but those are the ones that keep blowing-up. Too much time has been spend calling these sleds a Timebomb instead of spending the money on adequate tools. A 1000 SDI that runs 2000 miles without burps, hiccups or backfires, I am pretty sure it is running right and just needs the regular preventive maintenance and storage practice to ensure it stays that way. But one that keeps blowing-up needs to be monitored and adjusted.
 

If I played with the throttle I could find just the right spots where AFR would skyrocket and I would freak out, back out and boondocker up in that range.
 
Sounds like fun. I admire your initiative and resolve to work around a fuel mapping problem. That is a priceless skill that will always serve you in the future. Have you noticed how much you rely on the engine sound to tune? I think at this point you could use a digital tach and EGTs if you don't already have them.
 
 
Felt exactly like the range I was cruising in that one day when one piston got a little too tight and squeaked on the lake.
 
There are a few adjustments needed to run this engine leaner, hotter and stronger without squeaking. It could be worth the while if you are going to program a new ECM.
 
 
I know a few have tried to relocate the injectors but not sure if they did all 4 and what other changes they tried if any to make it all work? Any and all thoughts, questions and or input is greatly appreciated! Long live the 1000 TBSDI LOL!  If this works well enough, I'll have a spare set of holes for a 3rd set of injectors if I decide to turbo the thing some day?
 
I have often wanted to give the Megasquirt a try, however it wasn't designed for an SDI, and less for a TBSDI. I found the workarounds, but then came other problems with the programming. I learned just enough to go wow, maybe not for me. There are other alternatives, but they are pricey. If you enjoy that kind of stuff, I support it.

Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R Turbo?
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Diagnoses
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix





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