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The Downfall of the 1000 SDI ???


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#16 Daag44

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Posted 23 July 2017 - 01:23 PM

Case Studies

 

Sometimes we only need to see the good ones vs the bad ones to see how we can make these machines work a little better. First thing Early Rider did to his 2005 MachZ 1000 SDI was to adjust the oil injection to 36:1 and switched to XPS Mineral. The sled ran pretty much flawless for 10,000 miles. His 2006 Renegade 1000 SDI was a horror story from day 1.

 

 

Gade Catches Fire
Started By Early Rider, Jan 18 2006 11:50 AM
http://www.dootalk.c...e-catches-fire/


Edited by Daag44, 24 July 2017 - 01:03 AM.

Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R P-TEK Electrical Troubleshooting #1 and #2 
800R Turbo
850 Center Oil line for coolant pump melted
850 Main Oil line caught fire #1 and #2
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's and Ronn's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
Crankshaft runout - maximum allowable specs 
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Electrical - ECM drivers for Ignition Coils and E-TEC injectors 
Electrical - Diagnoses of a failed ECM
Electrical - 30A Battery Charging Fuse Socket Diagnoses and Relay
Electrical - Relay Coil Wine
Electrical - Relay Testing
Electrical - Battery Charging Relay Diagnostic 
Electrical - Troubleshooting with BRP video 
Electrical - Solder vs Crimp
Electrical - Diagram for Fanners on page 3
Engine Break-In 
Engine Weight 
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Electric Start troubleshooting
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC eRAVE position code recurring
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
E-TEC Voltage Rectifier Regulator troubleshooting
E-TEC Power Fades are not normal and can be fixed
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 Steering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Longevity - 800R E-TEC 
Mikuni o-ring for carb float assembly - Arctic Cat part# 6505-875 or from Amazon and eBay
Muffler Red Hot
Off-trail riding for flatlanders
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pictures - How to post with the correct orientation
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Power Loss - How to diagnose in the field
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Seafoam for E-TEC injectors
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Spark Plugs cracked
Squish - The limit
Squish - A discussion on head design
Stator and Relay Diagnostic 
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator Removal on page 3
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#17 siccfish

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Posted 26 July 2017 - 10:01 PM

So true. Tim Torkelson once asked BRP if they would change the ERAVE to include a middle position like the 800R. BRP replied online that they were happy with the performance and we wouldn't see a change anytime soon. Just imagine if it has the throttle response of the 2017 850RE. It would be a BEAST!!!

Dave Trygstad's TMS G4 850-927 is getting close to a 1K with all the benefits of 12 more years in development.


Have a look at this Q/A. The best one I found from BRP other than the cool stuff BRP answered on DooTalk that eventually got deleted. Thankfully BlueMax remembered most of it and posted on this forum.



Home / How To & Tech / Ask the Experts / You Asked: Ski-Doo discloses
FROM THE February 2007 ISSUE
http://www.amsnow.co...i-doo-discloses

You Asked: Ski-Doo discloses
January 5, 2007

Straight out of Valcourt, Canada, to your door, the engineers at Ski-Doo have responded to our online members' early season questions.

We have already had replies from Polaris and Arctic Cat, and now it's Ski-Doo's turn to explain the why's and how's posed to them by you.

There are some great queries here, one may correspond to your machine so take a look!


Under the hood

Q.) Do you foresee putting the 3D RAVE system on the SDI 1000? Why isn't there a thermostat on this sled?
- AmSnow.com member Tim Torkelson

A.) Don't look for the 3D RAVE system on the 1000 SDI anytime soon - the current stepper motor system on the 1000 works awesome. We don't need a thermostat on this motor, or the new 800R PowerTEK, because of state-of-the-art design. Our engines' sophisticated electronics better control warm-up and sense problems. The cooling system itself is very advanced - there is 30% more coolant flow (130 L vs. 100 L), and added capacity around the cylinders and crankcase.


Q.) Are you working on the problems with the ECU on the 1000 Mach Z and Summit? How is the problem of the R.A.V.E.s being opened at 7,000 rpm and the throttle position being only at about 15%, making the engine run very rich, then bogging when you throttle wide open, being corrected?

My ECU acts like it doesn't know how to control the situation. The same thing occurs when I do a long pull across the lake and burp the throttle at the end.
- AmSnow.com member Bill Cudney

A.) On the Mach and Renegade sleds, our testing found the same issues you did. There were a handful of overlapping lines in the thousands of lines of code in the Engine Control Module (ECM). We've updated these codes. All '07 Mach and Renegade models have this new mapping and it can be flashed into previous models.


Q.) What changes were made to the air box on the 800R?
- AmSnow.com member Utahted

A.) We assume you're comparing it to the 800 H.O. PowerTEK in which the external dimension of the air box is the same - as it's part of the REV platform. But the inside is redesigned with a larger inner tube, for freer breathing and reduced sound.


Q.) I read that the 800cc SDI motor is no longer available due to a lack of crankcase cooling. Ski-Doo released a limited version of the 800R with crankcase cooling this year, but why not an 800 EFI version as well? Many REV owners, who are not satisfied with a 600 SDI, have been waiting every year in anticipation of an 800 EFI model. I won't buy another carbureted sled and feel it's time for another 150+ hp EFI choice without the weight of the Mach.
- AmSnow.com member Russ Dettlaff

A.) Russ, this is an important issue, but you're forcing yourself to make a false choice. You probably "refuse to buy another carbureted sled" because you want crisp throttle response, good fuel economy, lower emissions, reduced smoke and smell and state-of-the art electronics.

These are not just benefits of our SDI engines, but benefits of our entire family of 2-TEC engines. Both of our 800cc engines - the 800 H.O. PowerTEK and 800R PowerTEK - have carburetors. But they meet all of the above criteria. They are both U.S. EPA certified for emissions. They both lead their class in fuel mileage - and get better mileage than many 4-strokes. Their electronics package is every bit as sophisticated, if not more so, than our SDI motors. Throttle response is instant, they automatically compensate for altitude, weather, your driving style and can protect themselves with their various sensors monitoring engine behavior. They even automatically optimize performance for the octane of the fuel you put in.

In snowmobiling, we need to get away from false choices based on misperceptions: 4-stroke vs. 2-stroke, "EFI" vs. "carbureted" - instead we hope people will rate technologies/snowmobiles based on their true performance. There is more than one way to skin a cat and we're using the best available technology at this time for the application and price-point. As technology advances, you can be sure that BRP will be on the cutting edge of lightweight 2-stroke powerplants.

Take a look at our MXZ Blizzard or Adrenaline with the 800 H.O. PowerTEK engine. We're confident you'll love it.


Additional Web only questions

Q.) Can anything be done to correct the excessive heat in the crankshaft on the 1000, which transfers heat to the clutch creating high belt temperatures regardless of what you do with the clutching? Even though clutching this sled does help bring down the belt temps.
- AmSnow.com member Bill Cudney

A.) There is not excessive heat in the crankshaft - this is one of the coolest running engines made. The crankshaft heat you're describing is more likely starting from the clutches. Heat is not an issue specific to Ski-Doo - it is happening to all brands as a result of the tight underhood packaging needed to meet ever-tougher sound regulations. Nevertheless, we're constantly working on new ways to cool the engine bay while meeting those regulations.


Q.) Why all the secrecy around the 500SS? Mine absolutely rips and I can hang with any other 600 and some 7s and 8s. Why is there no mention in any of your brochures about this engine actually being a 600? I never see any real advertisements for it either and when I bought mine, it was hundreds cheaper than any other comparable sled. Maybe that's not a bad thing because I'll just keep blowing away my buddies with my "500" stealth rocket.
- AmSnow.com member Clutchit3

A.) If you're "blowing away your buddies," why do you want us to give away your secret? Seriously, we're offering this 600 at the price of a 500 because we can. We named it 500SS (Short Stroke) so it would be cross-shopped with the competitive 500s.


Q.) What do all the letters after your sleds stand for? (GSX, GTX, MXZ, SWT, X-RS, etc.) I have a hard enough time remembering what my own initials stand for!
- AmSnow.com member Fullpackage

A.) Yes, we do love our acronyms at Ski-Doo. Here are most of them:

GSX - Grand Sport
GTX - Grand Touring
MXZ - Motocross
SWT - Super Wide Track
X-RS - Racing Special
DESS - Digitally Encoded Security System
ECM - Engine Control Module
H.O. - High Output
HPG - High Pressure Gas
MC - Motion Control
PowerTEK - Throttle position sensor/e-RAVE/Knock sensor
RAVE - Rotax Adjustable Variable Exhaust
eRAVE - electronic Rotax Adjustable Variable Exhaust
RAS - Response Angle Suspension
RER - Rotax Electronic Reverse
SC - Super Comfort
SDI - Semi-Direct Injection
500SS - 500 Short Stroke
T-A - Take-Apart
TRA - Total Range Adjustable
VR - Variable Rate
WT - Wide Track
...the X usually doesn't mean anything... we just like it.

great read


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

#18 Daag44

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Posted 27 July 2017 - 04:37 PM

great read


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

It was a mediocre read imo, but the best I could find from BRP. There was zero explanation to why these sleds keep falling apart or why they have he worst reputation on the planet next to the Polaris 900. We all know from personal experience that reputation is everything. One bad job gets more voices than two good ones.

 

From another topic I saw those upgrades didn't help your sled go past 500 miles which brings me to a few questions from your experience:

 

1. Which of those upgrades had given you faith that it should have lasted 5,000+ miles?

 

2. Out of everything you have read on this forum, what do you find is missing to build an assurance for new owners who plan on buy one?


Edited by Daag44, 27 July 2017 - 04:38 PM.

Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R P-TEK Electrical Troubleshooting #1 and #2 
800R Turbo
850 Center Oil line for coolant pump melted
850 Main Oil line caught fire #1 and #2
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's and Ronn's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
Crankshaft runout - maximum allowable specs 
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Electrical - ECM drivers for Ignition Coils and E-TEC injectors 
Electrical - Diagnoses of a failed ECM
Electrical - 30A Battery Charging Fuse Socket Diagnoses and Relay
Electrical - Relay Coil Wine
Electrical - Relay Testing
Electrical - Battery Charging Relay Diagnostic 
Electrical - Troubleshooting with BRP video 
Electrical - Solder vs Crimp
Electrical - Diagram for Fanners on page 3
Engine Break-In 
Engine Weight 
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Electric Start troubleshooting
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC eRAVE position code recurring
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
E-TEC Voltage Rectifier Regulator troubleshooting
E-TEC Power Fades are not normal and can be fixed
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 Steering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Longevity - 800R E-TEC 
Mikuni o-ring for carb float assembly - Arctic Cat part# 6505-875 or from Amazon and eBay
Muffler Red Hot
Off-trail riding for flatlanders
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pictures - How to post with the correct orientation
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Power Loss - How to diagnose in the field
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Seafoam for E-TEC injectors
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Spark Plugs cracked
Squish - The limit
Squish - A discussion on head design
Stator and Relay Diagnostic 
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator Removal on page 3
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#19 REV-O-LUTION

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Posted 27 July 2017 - 07:29 PM

It was a mediocre read imo, but the best I could find from BRP. There was zero explanation to why these sleds keep falling apart or why they have he worst reputation on the planet next to the Polaris 900. We all know from personal experience that reputation is everything. One bad job gets more voices than two good ones.
 
From another topic I saw those upgrades didn't help your sled go past 500 miles which brings me to a few questions from your experience:
 
1. Which of those upgrades had given you faith that it should have lasted 5,000+ miles?
 
2. Out of everything you have read on this forum, what do you find is missing to build an assurance for new owners who plan on buy one?

WOW.....i thought after reading all topics from early rider's joy about owning a 1k sdi ,all they ( doo talk member's ) have left to try was ...pedal's with a chain and gear's to get this sled going right !!! Incredible..... bring's me to one thing to do...better wear my working glove's on every times i dare to put my sexy "edit for bad language" on that seat for riding around !!!.

       * LETS GET READY TO   RRRUMBLLLLLE !! *


#20 turbo800

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Posted 28 July 2017 - 11:19 AM

I know some of the racers have, but have you guys considered moving away from the SDI setup for a simplified carb setup?

 

On top of that pre-mixing your fuel instead of just upping the oil injection ratio?

 

 

In my mind, it eliminates a ton of the problems associated with the 1000SDI. No need to run a high pressure pump anymore. No more lean condition if a pump fails. No need to run a gauge to watch fuel pressure. No need to run this map or that map. No need to have fuel control box. No need to worry if your injectors are balanced any more. No need to worry about the transition point between LS and HS injector.

 

I'm not saying that running carbs would end all the problems, or even create some new ones...but it seems like a better solution for me and my 1240 BB kit.


Toy Box

'17 Summit SP 165 w/ MPI 200 pump gas turbo

'14 Can-Am Maverick XRS  (SxS)

'09 Summit XP 800R 163 Blk/Blu
'05 Summit 1000 SDI w/ CS 1240 Bigbore Kit  3" x 174 track

'04 Summit Rev 800 X w/ 159" track (Blk/Yellow)

 

Hauler:

'00 Ford F-250 CCSB w/ 7.3L Powerstroke

'06 Haulmark 27' Enclosed

 

Bikes:

CR500AF w/ '14 Timbersled 120 ST snowbike kit

'98 Yamaha YZ250 (setup for single track)

 

Quad:

'02 Yamaha Grizzly 660


#21 Daag44

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Posted 28 July 2017 - 09:48 PM

For BB I think carbs can be interesting as it needs no electronics to adjust the different jetting circuits.

Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R P-TEK Electrical Troubleshooting #1 and #2 
800R Turbo
850 Center Oil line for coolant pump melted
850 Main Oil line caught fire #1 and #2
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's and Ronn's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
Crankshaft runout - maximum allowable specs 
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Electrical - ECM drivers for Ignition Coils and E-TEC injectors 
Electrical - Diagnoses of a failed ECM
Electrical - 30A Battery Charging Fuse Socket Diagnoses and Relay
Electrical - Relay Coil Wine
Electrical - Relay Testing
Electrical - Battery Charging Relay Diagnostic 
Electrical - Troubleshooting with BRP video 
Electrical - Solder vs Crimp
Electrical - Diagram for Fanners on page 3
Engine Break-In 
Engine Weight 
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Electric Start troubleshooting
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC eRAVE position code recurring
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
E-TEC Voltage Rectifier Regulator troubleshooting
E-TEC Power Fades are not normal and can be fixed
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 Steering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Longevity - 800R E-TEC 
Mikuni o-ring for carb float assembly - Arctic Cat part# 6505-875 or from Amazon and eBay
Muffler Red Hot
Off-trail riding for flatlanders
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pictures - How to post with the correct orientation
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Power Loss - How to diagnose in the field
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Seafoam for E-TEC injectors
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Spark Plugs cracked
Squish - The limit
Squish - A discussion on head design
Stator and Relay Diagnostic 
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator Removal on page 3
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#22 Daag44

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Posted 28 July 2017 - 11:14 PM

WOW.....i thought after reading all topics from early rider's joy about owning a 1k sdi ,all they ( doo talk member's ) have left to try was ...pedal's with a chain and gear's to get this sled going right !!! Incredible..... bring's me to one thing to do...better wear my working glove's on every times i dare to put my sexy "edit for bad language" on that seat for riding around !!!.


Pedals with a chain, good one! That thread is a gold mine. You would need to work-out a few things and make some corrections, but I have yet to find thread looking into a single engine problem that is anywhere near as rich as this one. As a new MachZ owner it would be kinda cool if you could work it out. Having the answer is only a very small part of what you can learn from working it out. There are many good posts from guys who really know what they are talking about. Some will mislead you, and some will send you on the right path. Follow the yellow brick road :)


Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R P-TEK Electrical Troubleshooting #1 and #2 
800R Turbo
850 Center Oil line for coolant pump melted
850 Main Oil line caught fire #1 and #2
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's and Ronn's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
Crankshaft runout - maximum allowable specs 
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Electrical - ECM drivers for Ignition Coils and E-TEC injectors 
Electrical - Diagnoses of a failed ECM
Electrical - 30A Battery Charging Fuse Socket Diagnoses and Relay
Electrical - Relay Coil Wine
Electrical - Relay Testing
Electrical - Battery Charging Relay Diagnostic 
Electrical - Troubleshooting with BRP video 
Electrical - Solder vs Crimp
Electrical - Diagram for Fanners on page 3
Engine Break-In 
Engine Weight 
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Electric Start troubleshooting
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC eRAVE position code recurring
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
E-TEC Voltage Rectifier Regulator troubleshooting
E-TEC Power Fades are not normal and can be fixed
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 Steering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Longevity - 800R E-TEC 
Mikuni o-ring for carb float assembly - Arctic Cat part# 6505-875 or from Amazon and eBay
Muffler Red Hot
Off-trail riding for flatlanders
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pictures - How to post with the correct orientation
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Power Loss - How to diagnose in the field
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Seafoam for E-TEC injectors
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Spark Plugs cracked
Squish - The limit
Squish - A discussion on head design
Stator and Relay Diagnostic 
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator Removal on page 3
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#23 siccfish

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Posted 29 July 2017 - 12:25 PM

It was a mediocre read imo, but the best I could find from BRP. There was zero explanation to why these sleds keep falling apart or why they have he worst reputation on the planet next to the Polaris 900. We all know from personal experience that reputation is everything. One bad job gets more voices than two good ones.

From another topic I saw those upgrades didn't help your sled go past 500 miles which brings me to a few questions from your experience:

1. Which of those upgrades had given you faith that it should have lasted 5,000+ miles?

2. Out of everything you have read on this forum, what do you find is missing to build an assurance for new owners who plan on buy one?

i thought the sled was great the short time I had it. Looking at a 2001 limited Mach z tomorrow hopping it s as clean as the picture s lol


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#24 siccfish

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Posted 29 July 2017 - 01:06 PM

I know some of the racers have, but have you guys considered moving away from the SDI setup for a simplified carb setup?

On top of that pre-mixing your fuel instead of just upping the oil injection ratio?


In my mind, it eliminates a ton of the problems associated with the 1000SDI. No need to run a high pressure pump anymore. No more lean condition if a pump fails. No need to run a gauge to watch fuel pressure. No need to run this map or that map. No need to have fuel control box. No need to worry if your injectors are balanced any more. No need to worry about the transition point between LS and HS injector.

I'm not saying that running carbs would end all the problems, or even create some new ones...but it seems like a better solution for me and my 1240 BB kit.

so if I buy sled should be staying away from all adi setups...?


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#25 Daag44

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Posted 29 July 2017 - 02:19 PM

i thought the sled was great the short time I had it. Looking at a 2001 limited Mach z tomorrow hopping it s as clean as the picture s lol


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You got good money ($2000) when that sled was sold, but not such a good deal overall. Exactly 7 days after you though of/posted selling the sled it seized on Feb 14th of 2017 between 7 and 8pm. You were riding on a lake and noticed a lag/fade at Wide Open Throttle. That was the first sign of a problem. Unfortunately there are zero instructions on what to do if this were to happen. Shortly after it seized going at 80 mph (129 kph).

 

I wrote more about your experience with the 1K and my experience with the 809, but I promised someone on DooTalk that I would keep it short. So I will work with the bare minimum and hope you guys can fill the blanks.


Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R P-TEK Electrical Troubleshooting #1 and #2 
800R Turbo
850 Center Oil line for coolant pump melted
850 Main Oil line caught fire #1 and #2
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's and Ronn's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
Crankshaft runout - maximum allowable specs 
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Electrical - ECM drivers for Ignition Coils and E-TEC injectors 
Electrical - Diagnoses of a failed ECM
Electrical - 30A Battery Charging Fuse Socket Diagnoses and Relay
Electrical - Relay Coil Wine
Electrical - Relay Testing
Electrical - Battery Charging Relay Diagnostic 
Electrical - Troubleshooting with BRP video 
Electrical - Solder vs Crimp
Electrical - Diagram for Fanners on page 3
Engine Break-In 
Engine Weight 
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Electric Start troubleshooting
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC eRAVE position code recurring
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
E-TEC Voltage Rectifier Regulator troubleshooting
E-TEC Power Fades are not normal and can be fixed
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 Steering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Longevity - 800R E-TEC 
Mikuni o-ring for carb float assembly - Arctic Cat part# 6505-875 or from Amazon and eBay
Muffler Red Hot
Off-trail riding for flatlanders
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pictures - How to post with the correct orientation
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Power Loss - How to diagnose in the field
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Seafoam for E-TEC injectors
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Spark Plugs cracked
Squish - The limit
Squish - A discussion on head design
Stator and Relay Diagnostic 
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator Removal on page 3
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#26 siccfish

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Posted 29 July 2017 - 02:34 PM

You got good money ($2000) when that sled was sold, but not such a good deal overall. Exactly 7 days after you though of/posted selling the sled it seized on Feb 14th of 2017 between 7 and 8pm. You were riding on a lake and noticed a lag/fade at Wide Open Throttle. That was the first sign of a problem. Unfortunately there are zero instructions on what to do if this were to happen. Shortly after it seized going at 80 mph (129 kph).

I wrote more about your experience with the 1K and my experience with the 809, but I promised someone on DooTalk that I would keep it short. So I will work with the bare minimum and hope you guys can fill the blanks.

its really too bad the 1k is so unreliable I still miss that donkey excited about owning another 809 seeing I had one and never had issues.might look for a good trail sled as well


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#27 siccfish

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Posted 29 July 2017 - 02:37 PM

its really too bad the 1k is so unreliable I still miss that donkey excited about owning another 809 seeing I had one and never had issues.might look for a good trail sled as well


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where did u write about my experience? And how do u like the 809?


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#28 Daag44

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Posted 29 July 2017 - 04:29 PM

its really too bad the 1k is so unreliable I still miss that donkey excited about owning another 809 seeing I had one and never had issues.might look for a good trail sled as well


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Out of the latest Rotax engines of the past decade or so, here are the ones that I find are the most reliable in order from Best to Worst.

 

EDIT:  Note this list is fluid since I just took another look and it didn't seem right. I am sure that I get caught up with my own biases and each time I will check again things will appear differently due to one having more strength in the top end and another on the lower end. It really depends on how one quantifies reliability, so this is just an exercise to help think it through.
 
1. 600 HOE
2. 600 HO SDI
3.1000 SDI
5. 800RE
6. 800R PTEK
7. 600 HO
8. 800 HO PTEK
....
600 triples
780/809 triples
 
 
This is of course only my opinion, but it gives any idea how I view the technology vs reliability. For instance, a 600 HO twin is inherently more reliable than an 800 HO twin due to its smaller size pistons and better fill efficiency. The 600 HO vs the 800 HO PTEK was a little more complicated, but since the 600 HO had zero compensation for Air Density and no Knock Sensor, I listed the 800 HO PTEK with its larger pistons above the 600 HO.


Edited by Daag44, 16 October 2017 - 10:28 PM.

Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R P-TEK Electrical Troubleshooting #1 and #2 
800R Turbo
850 Center Oil line for coolant pump melted
850 Main Oil line caught fire #1 and #2
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's and Ronn's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
Crankshaft runout - maximum allowable specs 
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Electrical - ECM drivers for Ignition Coils and E-TEC injectors 
Electrical - Diagnoses of a failed ECM
Electrical - 30A Battery Charging Fuse Socket Diagnoses and Relay
Electrical - Relay Coil Wine
Electrical - Relay Testing
Electrical - Battery Charging Relay Diagnostic 
Electrical - Troubleshooting with BRP video 
Electrical - Solder vs Crimp
Electrical - Diagram for Fanners on page 3
Engine Break-In 
Engine Weight 
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Electric Start troubleshooting
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC eRAVE position code recurring
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
E-TEC Voltage Rectifier Regulator troubleshooting
E-TEC Power Fades are not normal and can be fixed
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 Steering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Longevity - 800R E-TEC 
Mikuni o-ring for carb float assembly - Arctic Cat part# 6505-875 or from Amazon and eBay
Muffler Red Hot
Off-trail riding for flatlanders
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pictures - How to post with the correct orientation
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Power Loss - How to diagnose in the field
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Seafoam for E-TEC injectors
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Spark Plugs cracked
Squish - The limit
Squish - A discussion on head design
Stator and Relay Diagnostic 
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator Removal on page 3
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#29 Daag44

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Posted 29 July 2017 - 05:46 PM

where did u write about my experience? And how do u like the 809?


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You and I have been corresponding on this open MachZ forum for quite some time. My replies are still too long, so I will keep with the basics. The 809 has no compensation for Air Density.
 


Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R P-TEK Electrical Troubleshooting #1 and #2 
800R Turbo
850 Center Oil line for coolant pump melted
850 Main Oil line caught fire #1 and #2
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's and Ronn's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
Crankshaft runout - maximum allowable specs 
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Electrical - ECM drivers for Ignition Coils and E-TEC injectors 
Electrical - Diagnoses of a failed ECM
Electrical - 30A Battery Charging Fuse Socket Diagnoses and Relay
Electrical - Relay Coil Wine
Electrical - Relay Testing
Electrical - Battery Charging Relay Diagnostic 
Electrical - Troubleshooting with BRP video 
Electrical - Solder vs Crimp
Electrical - Diagram for Fanners on page 3
Engine Break-In 
Engine Weight 
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Electric Start troubleshooting
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC eRAVE position code recurring
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
E-TEC Voltage Rectifier Regulator troubleshooting
E-TEC Power Fades are not normal and can be fixed
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 Steering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Longevity - 800R E-TEC 
Mikuni o-ring for carb float assembly - Arctic Cat part# 6505-875 or from Amazon and eBay
Muffler Red Hot
Off-trail riding for flatlanders
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pictures - How to post with the correct orientation
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Power Loss - How to diagnose in the field
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Seafoam for E-TEC injectors
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Spark Plugs cracked
Squish - The limit
Squish - A discussion on head design
Stator and Relay Diagnostic 
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator Removal on page 3
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#30 siccfish

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Posted 29 July 2017 - 11:11 PM

You and I have been corresponding on this open MachZ forum for quite some time. My replies are still too long, so I will keep with the basics. The 809 has no compensation for Air Density.

but the 809 was great motor in its time but no comparison to technology of the set ups they have now. And the way the 809 sounds is music too my ears.


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Edited by siccfish, 29 July 2017 - 11:13 PM.





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