267 replies to this topic

[MrGutz]

It'll surge at over 1/3 on the temp gauge in certain slow speed situations. Just hold it to the bar, WOT and the surging goes away.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

 

Or Disconnect the Temp Gauge so it cant reach 1/3! LOL

Sorry, it just came to mind.

GutZ

[Daag44]

Ground Collector on MY 2007 is larger than previous years
 
Thanks to Cetaneaddict who found BRP had given MY2007 a larger Ground wire. This is the Black/Blue wire with a ring terminal that is secured to the upper A-frame on the RH side above the coolant bottle. I call it the Engine Management chassis ground, because it serves everything that is needed to run and manage the engine. All of the accessories use a separate solid Black ground wire that routes directly to the Voltage Rectifier Regulator or VRR for short.
 
*MY = Model Year
*VRR = Voltage Rectifier Regulator
 
Should this be addressed for all MY 2005 and 2006 ?  I don't believe so. From the 05s and 06s that I worked on, the majority had no electrical issues for the life of the sled. Several years ago I did a widespread search along the snowbelt and found that most didn't have problems either. Of those that I did find electrical problems, I found the cause for each one. The common problems were terminals not well seated in the fuse box, poor or loose ground connections, and the notorious 30A fuse socket. The 30A fuse socket is a reoccurring problem as the sleds grows in age, so this is one not to be overlooked. Another biggie is the connectors in the VRR not fully seated.
 
Of course there are SDIs (600s 800s and 1000s) that are plagued and those ones definitely need more attention. A common problem is the Run Relay that repeatedly burns out. Diagnose using a volt meter to measure the power to the relay coil. For those that were plagued with the eRAVE issue, I firmly believe this was due to pinched wiring in the harness. On my 07 one of the two White control wires was snaked in a S shape to take up the slack from being too long, and the tie wrap used secure the harness was digging into this wire. It never gave me a problem, but I can see how it could with a sled that was worse off. I haven't seen one on DooTalk in years, so I suspect the problematic ones have since burned down and literally junked.
 
One problem that I haven't worked out is the section of the wiring harness for the handlebars. I had read about this such as from 77 Blizzard with hand warmer problems, and the fix was the ground wire. RX7MachZ had this happen too on his 06 which also led him to route another ground wire. Then last season on our ride up to Parent, RX7MachZ experience yet another problem with this section of harness that gave trouble with the hand warmers. The handlebar harness has since been replaced and the results are pending, but I suspect another common issue with this harness. So if you suspect a problem, try to dig deeper into it with a volt meter. Most times and ohm meter doesn't cut it, because it does not supply enough current to show a voltage drop. Always use a volt meter or at least a test light when current is flowing, and test both sides for a drop, Ground and Positive. And please don't think hand warmer problem are isolated to these old sleds. On the same trip we saw it happen to the latest and greatest G4 850.

[Daag44]

VRR - Voltage Rectifier Regulator connector issues

 

 

The VRR uses top of line Deutsch connectors. As far as I know, these are problem free for the most part. There are a few common problem that I found such as the connectors not fully seated. It took a long time before I saw one, then another, and by the time I found the third I had remarked this was also a common problem seen on the 600 SDIs.

 

Below is a repertoire of burn or corroded pins from various SDI engines that was caused by faulty stators, poorly seated connectors, corrosion, or a combination of electrical issues.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Z-Boss]

It'll surge at over 1/3 on the temp gauge in certain slow speed situations. Just hold it to the bar, WOT and the surging goes away.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

 

Yeah, that's how I remember it, if it was warmed up at all and I was negotiating tight trails at low speeds it would surge bad.. and yeah, when getting back on the throttle, it was back to normal.

 

 
I did by reloading the 07 sea map. There is no direct way of doing this, so a different map needs to be loaded before the existing map appears in the list.
 
There are different ECM issues and other issues that can leave the engine not fueled right. There is no way to know without the use of a Wideband. If this is an 06 Renegade, then check to make sure there is no wiring mismatch between the high and low speed injectors (see Mach z wiring snafu)

 

Interesting - wish I would have kept my 07 Z longer. I'm not sure what map this old 05 has but once I have it back together I want to find out.

 

 

Thanks fellas.

 

There's alot of history in the forums about the fuel pumps and pressure gauges but no one ever talks about the Fuel Pressure Regulator.  Any reason why?

 

Are there no issues with them and no reason to replace them?

 

ZB.

[Daag44]

I'm not sure. It's a simple ball and spring with oring. The pump itself is what often becomes defective from any kind of fuel or delivery issue. Otherwise it is reliable.

Envoyé de mon SM-A205W en utilisant Tapatalk

[RX7MachZ]

Yeah, that's how I remember it, if it was warmed up at all and I was negotiating tight trails at low speeds it would surge bad.. and yeah, when getting back on the throttle, it was back to normal.


Interesting - wish I would have kept my 07 Z longer. I'm not sure what map this old 05 has but once I have it back together I want to find out.


Thanks fellas.

There's alot of history in the forums about the fuel pumps and pressure gauges but no one ever talks about the Fuel Pressure Regulator. Any reason why?

Are there no issues with them and no reason to replace them?

ZB.

Once while I had the pressure regulator out, I noticed a build up of debris and crud on the little screens that are visible. I think I cleaned them and called it a day. Those regulators are not a BRP specific item, my Buell Lighting motorcycle had the same one in it. I've seen them sold online from other distributors as well.

Without wanting to cause undue discussion, I've noticed the following 2 nuances related to the fuel pressure regulator.

When the temperature drops there's an increase in fuel pressure by a few PSI. On the last RT 1000 ride in Quebec both Tony and I noticed an increase in fuel pressure as the temperature plummeted: 2 different sleds, 2 different style guages at the same time and place.

I attribute this to the spring inside the regulator getting colder because the fuel flowing through it is colder causing a change in its compression strength.


I've also noticed that as the regulator gets older the fuel pressure average pressure has dropped slightly. I have a digital guage that reads to the tenth of a PSI making it easy to see.


Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[Z-Boss]

Once while I had the pressure regulator out, I noticed a build up of debris and crud on the little screens that are visible. I think I cleaned them and called it a day. Those regulators are not a BRP specific item, my Buell Lighting motorcycle had the same one in it. I've seen them sold online from other distributors as well.

Without wanting to cause undue discussion, I've noticed the following 2 nuances related to the fuel pressure regulator.

When the temperature drops there's an increase in fuel pressure by a few PSI. On the last RT 1000 ride in Quebec both Tony and I noticed an increase in fuel pressure as the temperature plummeted: 2 different sleds, 2 different style guages at the same time and place.

I attribute this to the spring inside the regulator getting colder because the fuel flowing through it is colder causing a change in its compression strength.


I've also noticed that as the regulator gets older the fuel pressure average pressure has dropped slightly. I have a digital guage that reads to the tenth of a PSI making it easy to see.


Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

 

Thanks - that's informative.

 

Makes me think I probably didn't need to replace mine (I ordered both pumps,  filter and regulator)  after I read too many posts about fuel issues one late    night.

[Daag44]

The sea of troubles will eat anyone alive.

 

RX7MachZ and I have kept each other in check, but it has NOT been easy. Last season he got tired of me raving about the insane power hit of the 850 like no other sled. So he did a quick/simple clutching change to one of his sleds and made sure I would try it the moment I got there. I returned with a white flag that he had he proved his point lol

[Z-Boss]

The sea of troubles will eat anyone alive.

 

RX7MachZ and I have kept each other in check, but it has NOT been easy. Last season he got tired of me raving about the insane power hit of the 850 like no other sled. So he did a quick/simple clutching change to one of his sleds and made sure I would try it the moment I got there. I returned with a white flag that he had he proved his point lol

 

 

Yeah - my question is what do they put in these things that make them so addictive? 

 

Even after I dumped my 06 in 2010 after 3 shortblocks,  I still wanted another. My 800 just wasn't 'fun' enough. It took me until last year (2020) before I was brave (dumb?) enough to try again.

 

Is there anyone in the Ottawa / Gatineau area who's experienced with the beast that could maybe visit and help me look over  the 05 I picked up? I'm going with what I learn here on the forum (1111 threads, 950 left to read) - but I'm not as mechanically advanced as many here and any hands on help would be appreciated.  

 

After 15 years of threads, it seems like good clean grounds, a good 30A fuse connection at the battery, a good oil pump adjustment of 45:1, maybe or maybe not pre-mix in the tank, good working fuel pumps, a better secondary like Team to reduce heat and belt dust, make sure the side panel is well seated when closed so the airbox doesn't pickup debris and has a pantyhose blocking the inlet (instead of pods), adjusted e-Raves and the right MAP is the final formula. Did I miss anything?

[RX7MachZ]

You can call any of us for assistance .

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[3 boys]

Yeah - my question is what do they put in these things that make them so addictive? 

 

Even after I dumped my 06 in 2010 after 3 shortblocks,  I still wanted another. My 800 just wasn't 'fun' enough. It took me until last year (2020) before I was brave (dumb?) enough to try again.

 

Is there anyone in the Ottawa / Gatineau area who's experienced with the beast that could maybe visit and help me look over  the 05 I picked up? I'm going with what I learn here on the forum (1111 threads, 950 left to read) - but I'm not as mechanically advanced as many here and any hands on help would be appreciated.  

 

After 15 years of threads, it seems like good clean grounds, a good 30A fuse connection at the battery, a good oil pump adjustment of 45:1, maybe or maybe not pre-mix in the tank, good working fuel pumps, a better secondary like Team to reduce heat and belt dust, make sure the side panel is well seated when closed so the airbox doesn't pickup debris and has a pantyhose blocking the inlet (instead of pods), adjusted e-Raves and the right MAP is the final formula. Did I miss anything?

A Team secondary is not necessary. Just run the 06  clutching with the 25mm set screw installed in pins and fresh springs in both clutches. Set your clickers to 3 and hang on. If your sled will not pull this basic but very good set up then you have other issues holding the sled back.

[Daag44]

How close are you to Ottawa?

Edited by Daag44, 21 December 2020 - 01:10 AM.

[3 boys]

I don't live close to Ottawa. I am not looking to make decisions for owners but simply offer advice. Clean air is important on any engine however it is accomplished as long as the owner is happy with  there choice. I just didn't want him to think it was absolutely necessary to go out and buy a expensive secondary clutch as the only means of reducing belt heat and dust.

[Daag44]

Fuel to Oil Ratio

Below is a good target for Fuel/Oil ratio.
The numbers have been rounded off for ease of use.
The chart and explanations is a step further than the thread linked immediately below.
 
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Started By Daag44, Aug 12 2020 12:02 AM
 

Always work in mpq to figure oil use.
Figuring ratios on the trail is too much trouble and too complicated.
An average trail 1000 SDI will consume somewhere between 11 to 13 mpg.
This leaves few mpq values to remember: 70-85-105 mpq.
By graduating the oil tank it takes seconds to check.
MPG = Miles Per Gallon of Fuel
MPQ = Miles Per Quart of Oil
 
Function f(x) = 9.61307 * 1.0959 ^ MPG
 
4 mpg @ 14:1 @ 14 mpq
5 mpg @ 15:1 @ 19 mpq
6 mpg @ 17:1 @ 25 mpq
7 mpg @ 18:1 @ 32 mpq
8 mpg @ 20:1 @ 40 mpq
9 mpg @ 22:1 @ 49 mpq
10 mpg @ 24:1 @ 60 mpq
11 mpg @ 26:1 @ 70 mpq
12 mpg @ 29:1 @ 85 mpq
13 mpg @ 32:1 @ 105 mpq
14 mpg @ 35:1 @ 120 mpq
15 mpg @ 38:1 @ 140 mpq
16 mpg @ 42:1 @ 170 mpq
17 mpg @ 46:1 @ 195 mpq
18 mpg @ 50:1 @ 225 mpq
19 mpg @ 55:1 @ 260 mpq
20 mpg @ 60:1 @ 300 mpq

Edited by Daag44, 18 January 2021 - 03:14 PM.

[Daag44]

45:1 from BRP ???
 
The infamous 45:1 from BRP appears to be if you can reach 17 mpg.
Maybe with a stock 1" track and 29/49 gearing.
Earliest info said to expect 14-15 mpg on hard trail riding.
11 to 13 mpg with a studded 1.24" track running 27/49 gearing.
 
 
Ball Park Figures
It's not about being precise, but rather being in the ball park.
Example: 13 mpg @ 100 to 110 mpq.
The next day it consumes 150 mpq.
There might be a problem with a frayed oil cable.
Say the oil cable adjustment is set to 18mm.
With a preset gauge using a piece of anything, it takes 60 seconds to check.
I have seen frayed oil cables so loose that it was obvious just by looking at the adjustment.
 
Disproportionate Fuel/Oil Consumption
One reason for more oil is the real time fuel consumption is unknown.
At least three factors affect fuel consumption disproportionately to the oil.
Engine temp greater than 90C
Exhaust temp greater than 600C
Ambient temperature as it gets colder.
 
Forget the 45:1
Throw that ratio into the garbage.
It has no value without the fuel consumption.
 
Graduate the Oil Tank
Graduate the oil tank to 1/4 quarts.
Figure oil consumption per quarts.
Then compare with Fuel Consumption.
XPS Mineral works great with the sea map.

Edited by Daag44, 14 February 2021 - 04:56 AM.