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850 Vs 1200 Dyno Chart


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#91 ncapster

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 04:55 PM

That's exactly my point!!!! At 6k, the 800 etec already makes equal or more torque than the 1200. So why does anyone care about torque below 5 or 6k?!

Cvt clutches are incredibly quick to respond. What's the point of having tons of torque below 6k if the sled/clutches rocket past 6k almost instantly?

 

Actually the 800 does not catch up to the 1200 in both torque and HP until about 6,850 rpm.


Edited by ncapster, 20 April 2017 - 04:56 PM.



#92 MX-Z Man

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 06:30 PM

Actually the 800 does not catch up to the 1200 in both torque and HP until about 6,850 rpm.

Yup, and for trail riding that's the sweet spot. My 1200 used to run about 70 MPH at 6,500-6,800 RPMs. At those speeds and RPMs my 800 always felt like it was laying down. In my limited seat time on the 850 this year that's no longer an issue.

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#93 DooDown87

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 06:55 PM

Yup, and for trail riding that's the sweet spot. My 1200 used to run about 70 MPH at 6,500-6,800 RPMs. At those speeds and RPMs my 800 always felt like it was laying down. In my limited seat time on the 850 this year that's no longer an issue.

 

Yep, same exact experience here.  They finally won me back with the 850. 



#94 markusvt

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 09:29 PM

I always thought the 800 felt like a 600 until 7500 RPM's.  With full shift it was over at 8000 RPM's, I never liked the engine.  The 1200 out pulled it everywhere except on the top.  I have 1000's of miles on both.  A slip of the throttle in sport mode in the wrong conditions could be fearful on the 1200, never so on the 800.

 

I am hopeful the 850 is as strong on the bottom and life will be good  :smile_old:


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#95 Daag44

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 01:30 AM

Found this posted here in 2012...

09 1200 - mbrp header, dynoport muffler, PCV

EngSpd STPTrq STPPwr BSFC Fuel A LAMAF1 Air 2
RPM Clb-ft CHp lb/hph lb/hr Ratio scfm
5567 89.0 94.3 0.63 57.6 11.46 125
5600 89.2 95.1 0.63 57.7 11.41 126
5700 89.2 96.8 0.62 57.9 11.07 129
5800 89.8 99.2 0.61 58.5 10.93 134
5900 89.9 101.0 0.61 59.0 10.83 138
6000 89.5 102.3 0.60 59.3 10.80 141
6100 91.0 105.7 0.59 60.2 10.80 145
6200 92.6 109.4 0.58 61.1 10.80 148
6300 94.8 113.7 0.57 62.6 10.83 151
6400 95.2 116.0 0.58 64.7 10.88 152
6500 95.8 118.5 0.59 67.4 10.92 151
6600 95.0 119.4 0.60 69.4 10.92 150
6700 95.2 121.4 0.59 69.4 10.86 149
6800 95.0 123.1 0.58 68.8 10.85 150
6900 95.9 126.0 0.56 68.3 10.85 151
7000 96.9 129.2 0.56 69.4 10.90 154
7100 98.3 132.9 0.55 70.9 10.95 156
7200 100.0 137.1 0.55 72.4 11.03 161
7300 101.2 140.6 0.54 73.3 11.15 165
7400 102.1 143.9 0.53 73.6 11.26 170
7500 102.3 146.1 0.52 73.3 11.39 173
7600 101.8 147.3 0.52 73.6 11.51 175
7700 101.1 148.2 0.52 74.6 11.63 176
7800 100.1 148.6 0.54 76.9 11.71 177
7900 98.9 148.8 0.55 79.1 11.71 178
8000 97.7 148.8 0.56 80.8 11.65 178
8100 97.1 149.7 0.56 81.5 11.53 179
8200 96.7 150.9 0.55 80.6 11.43 180
8300 96.5 152.5 0.55 80.4 11.34 181
8333 96.1 152.4 0.54 79.8 11.32 181

 

Those are some serious numbers. The ones I have for the same header and a Dyno Port Quiet Muffler with no fuel controller are a lot lower. I just don't know where those numbers came from or what correction factor was used, otherwise I would add them to the graph. In any case a header and muffler makes a big difference in the Power Band.

 

 

4-TEC vs 2-TEC v4 - Markup.jpg


Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R Turbo?
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Diagnoses
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#96 440x

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 01:32 AM

Those are some serious numbers. The ones I have for the same header and a Dyno Port Quiet Muffler with no fuel controller are a lot lower. I just don't know where those numbers came from or what correction factor was used, otherwise I would add them to the graph. In any case a header and muffler makes a big difference in the Power Band.


attachicon.gif4-TEC vs 2-TEC v4 - Markup.jpg

Think they are DTR, found here...

http://www.dootalk.c...-torque-number/

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk


Edited by 440x, 21 April 2017 - 01:47 AM.


#97 Daag44

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 01:41 AM

How about a supercharged 850 graph as well

 

I would add a turbo 1200, but it would go way off the chart lol  The beauty of the 1200 is that's turbo friendly.


Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R Turbo?
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Diagnoses
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#98 Daag44

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 02:21 AM

Think they are DTR, which is std cf.

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk

 

I couldn't find it so it would be among the ones that are not published. See the Light Blue curve. Actually, if I lower the 800RE curve to a 2016 800RE from the Shootout, then they would only have a 6Hp difference at the Peak. Loose a bit up top, but the lower end gain is surprisingly large. Not bad for only a few performance mods to get on par with an 800 2S.

 

 

4-TEC vs 2-TEC v5 - Markup.jpg


Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R Turbo?
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Diagnoses
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#99 jtssrx

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 06:06 AM

These sheets look bogus. Here are three pics of dyno shets from dynotech. The torque never goes over 120 foot pounds and stars at 100 not 110 like the sheets to start this thread

Attached Images

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  • IMG_0883.PNG


#100 ncapster

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 07:18 AM

These sheets look bogus. Here are three pics of dyno shets from dynotech. The torque never goes over 120 foot pounds and stars at 100 not 110 like the sheets to start this thread


The top two lines are HP numbers and the bottom two lines are torque numbers. The same graph can be found on page 2 with labels.


#101 xtreme747

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 07:35 AM

I always thought the 800 felt like a 600 until 7500 RPM's. With full shift it was over at 8000 RPM's, I never liked the engine. The 1200 out pulled it everywhere except on the top. I have 1000's of miles on both. A slip of the throttle in sport mode in the wrong conditions could be fearful on the 1200, never so on the 800.

I am hopeful the 850 is as strong on the bottom and life will be good :smile_old:


My feelings exactly and I too have thousands of miles on both . 800 was an on off switch basically and quite opposite of the 1200 . Regardless of what a graph says the torque is much more apparent in the 1200 .

#102 snirthead

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 08:35 AM

I always thought the 800 felt like a 600 until 7500 RPM's. With full shift it was over at 8000 RPM's, I never liked the engine. The 1200 out pulled it everywhere except on the top. I have 1000's of miles on both. A slip of the throttle in sport mode in the wrong conditions could be fearful on the 1200, never so on the 800.

I am hopeful the 850 is as strong on the bottom and life will be good :smile_old:

I agree on the 800, I didn't like mine for those reasons and went back to 600's for a few years and was hesitant of the 850 this season but Holy sheet is this 850 a different animal, very 4 stroke like but doesn't fall flat on top...unbelievable, it just rips at all rpm and makes you giggle in your helmet! Ordered an 18 no question.

Edited by snirthead, 21 April 2017 - 08:37 AM.


#103 NB-REV800X

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 10:06 AM

The biggest thing I noticed on the 850 this winter coming from a 4stroke turbo cats is that the midrange on the 850 feels very 4 stroke like but without the weight. It runs so smooth once out of idle. No stock 1200 could hang with an 850. 


Edited by NB-REV800X, 21 April 2017 - 01:07 PM.


#104 Daag44

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 01:25 AM

Someone asked for the 600 ETEC curves. Below are two graphs for the 600 HOE. The second one has only 3 curves to better show the changes BRP has made from year to year. The curves have all been radically smoothed out to better see the changes. Otherwise all we see is a bunch of gibberish.
 
I wish that we had the numbers following a Dyno Break-in and the Break-in Mode turned off, but unfortunately this is all we have for the 600 HOE. It is actually pretty good because it compares brand new Box Stock sleds for the yearly Amsnow Shootouts. The Fuel RVP and Octane are also tested which is in itself very sophisticated.
 
A couple of other things that will make a significant difference is the Fuel and Oil used. Ethanol anyone?
 
 
 
2-TEC 600 ETEC v1 Markup.jpg
 
 
2-TEC 600 ETEC v2 Markup.jpg

Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R Turbo?
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Diagnoses
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix


#105 IcutMetl

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 04:34 AM

Lookin at that graph it " looks " like the 1000 SDI is cranking out over 180 HP, no way that's stock right???

Not out of the question. My MachZ; when ridden back to back with my FreeRide, has noticeably more power. The amount of grunt; even before the powervalves open, is really impressive. The response is just as good, too. More drastic transition into "ludicrous speed" at 7k when the valves open. Both sleds are geared down, FreeRide likely lower. Clutching is aftermarket on the FR, and a few common tweaks on the Mach.

At some point, I'll get a chance to ride a 1200, and I'm looking forward to it. I'm going to order an 850 next spring; even if the 850 splits the difference between the 800etec and 1000sdi, I'll be very pleased.




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