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2016 Freeride 137 Blown Belt Clutches HOT!


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#46 Trippy

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Posted 02 February 2016 - 05:30 PM

I had no problem spending the money on it because it is what i wanted and i wanted the 4 year warranty. My issue is the pricing that is being advertised on current 2016's. If these were 2015's I would just brush it off and say whatever... but these are current 2016's that they are practically giving away. What will this do for the resale for people?


You don't even want to know what I just paid for a 2016 Smut..... You will cry



#47 mashby

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Posted 02 February 2016 - 08:26 PM

Dura-Rage, you mentioned you've had experience with clutch design and CVT's, then you'd know the importance of reducing the opportunity of having the center distances between the Dr & Dn collapsing in on each other which in turn will also aid in maintaining sheave alignment relative to the Dr & Dn, and so that said you might want to consider adjusting the engine stop to zero clearance here's a pic of one that has been adjusted to zero and in doing so it has drastically reduced misalignment and center distance variance under load as well as reducing belt temps...

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#48 Rev_it

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Posted 03 February 2016 - 08:07 AM

I have the 15 Back Country and my dealer told me that the reason I blew 3 belts in 400 miles is that I was driving it at full throttle to much. I said OH OK so when I bought this sled because the new Yamamha grenaded the selling feature was to drive it like I stole it. I said OH so I can drive it to the pin everywhere. He said yes. So after the dealer looking my sled over twice he said everything was in alignment it was because I was to hard on the sled. I said OH so my sister who is bigger then me on the same sled can out run me on the lake and after a 5 mile run down the lake TO THE PIN I explode a belt and she pulls me with me on the sled TO THE PIN back across the lake to the house so I can pull the clutch apart to get the cords out of it. I open her panel and grab the clutch and it is hot but I can hold my hand on it.

I remember the old days when you could buy a sled and drive it hard and they might need a couple little things like my 04 needing the secondary floating an DJ kit and drop one tooth to still do 100mph on the GPS with a 136 1.5 all day to the pin.

I am a Doo guy always liked the Doo went away for two sleds because of the dealer now the town I live in has only one dealer and I wont buy a Cat because of the belt explosions. WAIT they just went to team clutches But they have never had belt problems.


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#49 MachZ990

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Posted 03 February 2016 - 09:12 AM

Have you called your dealer about your belt life? Take the sled out and ride it just a short while. Where is heat building? Primary or secondary? Off trail riding can be very hard on belts. I've seen sleds that never blow belts on trail but will while boondocking. Did you clean your clutch faces before installing your new second belt? I would see how it runs with the new second belt with the primary sheaves cleaned up. Maybe you toasted the first belt in one area and shortened the life. 2.5" track on the trails? The CVT cover pulls in outside cool air. Removing it and clutches run hotter. Looks like the other way around but it's designed by engineers and clutch temps were verified.

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#50 Dura-Rage

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Posted 03 February 2016 - 09:57 AM

Dura-Rage, you mentioned you've had experience with clutch design and CVT's, then you'd know the importance of reducing the opportunity of having the center distances between the Dr & Dn collapsing in on each other which in turn will also aid in maintaining sheave alignment relative to the Dr & Dn, and so that said you might want to consider adjusting the engine stop to zero clearance here's a pic of one that has been adjusted to zero and in doing so it has drastically reduced misalignment and center distance variance under load as well as reducing belt temps...

 

Yes I do have experience with design of CVT's and do understand the importance of maintaining the distances between the drive and driven pulleys. If the problem is the motor moving under acceleration, everyone would have this problem. If it is not the motor moving being the problem then it is the clamp on the belt, meaning the choice of primary ramp angle and weight along with spring force is fighting the secondary ramp angle along with its spring force making the belt "slip" showing that the stock calibration is wrong and a different calibration is needed.  That would also mean that the "Freeride" "king of  the backcountry" would not actually be the 'king of the backcountry" it would be a glorified trail sled with a large paddle track and 50 way adjustable shocks... I know that is not true because there are many people out there who ride these sleds hard and have no issues. Now the question is do the people that are actually riding these sleds to their potential have thousands in aftermarket parts? Or do i just have a sled with something weird going on? This is basically my original concern and the reason for this post. Will this sled perform the way i want it to in stock form, or will i need to add the QRS link, vented side panels, a remote fan, floating secondary, clutch kit, and re-gear it? If these things must be added for the sled to perform at a minimal level then the OEM setup that is being put in these sleds is "garbage". I find that hard to believe... But the sled business is in business of making money... 



#51 Dura-Rage

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Posted 03 February 2016 - 10:08 AM

I have the 15 Back Country and my dealer told me that the reason I blew 3 belts in 400 miles is that I was driving it at full throttle to much. I said OH OK so when I bought this sled because the new Yamamha grenaded the selling feature was to drive it like I stole it. I said OH so I can drive it to the pin everywhere. He said yes. So after the dealer looking my sled over twice he said everything was in alignment it was because I was to hard on the sled. I said OH so my sister who is bigger then me on the same sled can out run me on the lake and after a 5 mile run down the lake TO THE PIN I explode a belt and she pulls me with me on the sled TO THE PIN back across the lake to the house so I can pull the clutch apart to get the cords out of it. I open her panel and grab the clutch and it is hot but I can hold my hand on it.

I remember the old days when you could buy a sled and drive it hard and they might need a couple little things like my 04 needing the secondary floating an DJ kit and drop one tooth to still do 100mph on the GPS with a 136 1.5 all day to the pin.

I am a Doo guy always liked the Doo went away for two sleds because of the dealer now the town I live in has only one dealer and I wont buy a Cat because of the belt explosions. WAIT they just went to team clutches But they have never had belt problems.

 

If the dealer told me that i was riding my "Backcountry" to hard or using to much throttle i would tell them exactly where they could put my sled... and it would not be back in my truck... These sleds are marketed to be rode hard and should be setup accordingly. i don't buy my sleds to look at them or ride them 10 miles from bar to bar. I ride my sleds and i ride them hard. So if your selling me a sled that is supposed to perform in a certain area it darn well better perform in that area.

 

Now don't get me wrong this Freeride is a blast to ride and works great off trail and is unbelievable on trail even with the skis set skinny and the sway bar disconnected. I am very happy with the overall feel and the way the sled works but blowing belts every 250 miles is not going to fly...    



#52 Dura-Rage

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Posted 03 February 2016 - 10:18 AM

I dropped the sled off at my dealer yesterday and they said they are going to do whatever they can to get these problems resolved. Every service tech and salesmen at the dealer was blown away that they were getting a "Freeride" back for warranty work. They said they have never had one come back ever...

 

I would also like to point out that the last time i rode the sled i was having a weird twitch in my steering. I came over a hill in about 12 inches of snow with the skis 6 inches of the top and when the skis hit the ground i was sent into a death swap and ejected of the sled. It came out of no where, there was nothing i did to warrant what happened.  I watched my brand new sled tumble across a field at 50 mph or so...After further inspection the left lower ball joint was completely garbage and with the weight off of the sled the ski could move 2 inches toe in and 2 inches toe out along with front to back movement. With the weight of the sled on it you could not tell that there was anything wrong.     


Edited by Dura-Rage, 03 February 2016 - 11:49 AM.


#53 Dura-Rage

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Posted 03 February 2016 - 11:34 AM

Spring orders have fancy stickers and shocks


Still the same sled as the "consume" sled


And what do you mean by "put perform". You think the X means it is a better sled???

Base model sleds go just as far, just as fast


Ask me how I know


Heck my 07 hangs with the new "fancy premium" sleds or whatever ya think you have

 

I am by no means saying i have a better sled or that spring ordering makes you above the rest because that's not true. But the point of spring ordering is to get the better options that you would not normally get on the "basic consumer sled". And if the extra options that come on a spring order do not help the sled perform, then they are pointless in my opinion.



#54 Icanfixit

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Posted 03 February 2016 - 12:19 PM

You don't even want to know what I just paid for a 2016 Smut..... You will cry


Sorry but I do?

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#55 Icanfixit

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Posted 03 February 2016 - 12:40 PM

Dura-Rage, by any chance did your clutch faces have oil on them? If they were oily they would heat up fast and belts would explode due to heat stress. Also you need to check belt deflection, if you don't know how ask....it is vital for best belt results.
I think you done the best thing here dropping your sled off to get it looked at the dealer. You sound very angry and or disappointed in your new sled?
There seems to be a few different issues upsetting you at the moment, and it's best to talk with dealer and have them Ironed out.

Best of luck getting the bugs worked out.

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#56 Dura-Rage

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Posted 03 February 2016 - 01:08 PM

There was no oil on the clutches that i had noticed, however on the exhaust side of the sled there was an oil film all over everything under the hood like it was sprayed with WD-40 or something... 

 

As for belt deflection i had checked and adjusted it after i had put 50 miles or so on it. And every time i checked it after that it looked good. 

 

I am not angry, I am just disappointed in my expectation vs reality. 

 

Hopefully the dealer can figure everything out because at the end of day i just wanna ride it. I do appreciate everyone that has been commenting and trying to help.

 

I will update once i hear from the dealer on what they find.  



#57 Dura-Rage

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Posted 03 February 2016 - 01:31 PM

I do not believe alignment was an issue as i was checking the belt basically every time we would stop. Which was probably every half hour when we were tree riding. The clutches and belt were always on fire, but there was never any fraying cords. Even when the belt detonated over 3/4 of the cords were still in place where the belt de-laminated. The entire top side of the belt shot off in chunks all at once. Which correct me if i am wrong, in my previous experiences this means that it was directly related to heat.    



#58 mashby

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Posted 03 February 2016 - 06:16 PM

I do not believe alignment was an issue as i was checking the belt basically every time we would stop. Which was probably every half hour when we were tree riding. The clutches and belt were always on fire, but there was never any fraying cords. Even when the belt detonated over 3/4 of the cords were still in place where the belt de-laminated. The entire top side of the belt shot off in chunks all at once. Which correct me if i am wrong, in my previous experiences this means that it was directly related to heat.

Heat from misalignment

 


#59 Few screws loose

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Posted 03 February 2016 - 11:44 PM

Here is my take. I went through 5 belts in 1500 miles. 25/45 gearing. Alignment is on par, runout is within spec, I chased the gremlins all last season. I dropped to a 23/45 tooth. Trails this year are hard, moguled, and brutal. I weigh 350lbs and ride it like I stole it. Jump it, skip over the tops, slam on the brakes, pin it... You name it. Just blew a belt at 1000 miles. Now only 400 of them are from this year and the lower gearing but the trails this year are some of the worst I've ridden. I don't think I've hit a groomed trail all year.

Your weight bashing moguls is hard on the drive chain and belt. Track comes off the snow, speeds up, then slams into the next mogul slowing it down and transferring that force to the drive system. Since steel is harder than rubber your belt gets the worse of the force. Doing 60 over the moguls will build heat REALLY fast. Dropping a gear helped me and I still top out at 90+. Plenty fast for me. In fact I wanna drop to a 21 tooth (I can't remember if I'd have to change chains though). My sled has tons of low end torque and is much more fun in the twisties and deep snow. So what I lost 10mph... Big deal.

Try dropping your gear ratio

Edited by Few screws loose, 03 February 2016 - 11:45 PM.

DBer posted 11-24-2013, 10:47 AM <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

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#60 MX-Z Man

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Posted 04 February 2016 - 05:51 AM

Not going to blindly shim my secondary simply because some internet forum Dood said to to do it. Might put things 3mm out of alignment, if it happens to be perfect now.

I didn't clean my clutches or reset deflection during this maiden trip, so belt could have stretched some causing it to slip and build up enough heat to pop a cord considering all of the deep pow we were riding in. I did break the belt in with a 30 miles of eZ ditch banging prior to trip.

OK. Its your sled, do with it what you want. I just went through this with my '14, and it was REALLY frustrating. That was my 6th XP/XR/XS chassis sled and the first one that had the issue. I had a hard time believing it needed shimming and it even measured "within specs". Rather than just accept it needed shimming and be done with it I spent the season fighting it. If I had to do it all over again I would have shimmed it the second I found the hot clutches.

All I was trying to do is save you the same grief. If you'd rather fight it than fix it have at it. I don't care.

In the mean time you might want to consider a Carlisle XS belt, that's the only one I found that could stand up to the 210+ temps I was seeing.

And for what its worth, my '15 and '16 both have had nice cooling running clutches, so its pretty random. In my case its been 1 out of 8.

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