Agreed! Daag, if you think that etec consumers owe it to BRP to go out and buy EGT, pyro, wideband O2, and water temp gauges just to carry out field testing for BRP you are crazy!
All gauges that you mentioned were for a modified ETEC such as in this topic. My reply to Zxmodv was regarding a stock ETEC, because he was under the delusion that they will not have problems and cannot fail due to being at the pinnacle of 2 stroke technology. Those that stutter or cut-out and run lean are good examples. The thing with the ETEC like any other two strokes that have no O2 sensor is that unless detonation is detected or the exhaust temps grow to hot, then there is no way for the ECM to detect a lean failure. This is the main reason why E15 cannot be used in our sleds. It would be easy to design it, but then we would have trouble with all the older sleds and other recreational toys that also don't have an O2 sensor. Since the law was passed against using E15, which made everyone happy, the manufacturers don't we don't need to worry about this kind of tuning, or do they?
Don't get me wrong, I love gauges. I have an EGT and water temp gauge on my sled and love to watch how they are affected by riding style, temp, conditions...etc.
So we have that in common. Ever notice how quickly the coolant temps drop when the coolant pump turns at high speeds? Obviously the engine is not cooling down that fast, but it is interesting to monitor. I have noticed at certain rpm the coolant temperature would begin to drop and rise again when the rpm would drop. It gives clues to what the engine needs to help stay cool.
But these new etecs do not need that. They are tuned from the factory to operate over a wide range of conditions for idiot consumers that put cheap gas in them and hold it to the bar all day. They are not living on the edge.
You are almost right. Let me correct the last sentence. They are not TUNED to the edge. It is a very big difference. Have a closer look at Chief Gotto Go's 2013 BCX 800 ETEC. Why didn't the ECM protect itself? Because it has no way of knowing if it is lean unless detonation is detected or the exhaust temps grow to hot. See how that works? It is easy. Essentially what it means is that you CAN detect a problem early and get it fixed. The good news is that you CAN do this without special tools. I devoted a complete post to this foreign concept that we do in fact have the means to help ourselves. I thought it was a pretty darn good deal.
Also...you just don't hear about lean burn downs on etecs that are caused by tuning issues. I would say that all etec failures are due to air leaks, injector failures or bearing failures. Not fuelling...
Again this is not entirely correct. BRP has a bulletin out for lean issues on the 600 ETEC. This was the reason I used this sled in my example to Zxmodv. Apparently it was cause for counselling.
Sure there may be a handful of dootalkers that would like to have that level of data. But most do not.
Your right, most do not. But most will also be interested in the data from the handful of those who do
And I assure you that BRP would not use your data to make engineering decisions. It's just too uncontrolled for modern engineering and system performance modelling. They may follow trends on the forums to look for reliability issues so THEY can conduct further testing. But they aren't going to use Joe Shmoe's egt and wideband data to make changes to their fuelling.
So you are targeting me personally on this one, why? Because I used the words chatter and DooTalk being an extension to Ski-Doo engineering? First of all chatter is a word that BRP uses themselves when referring to forums, so since I am on a forum I see no reason why I can't use it. As for the extension, who is the customer? If you had a business and did not build a product for the customers, than I would not be buying from you. Great companies think of their customers. By the way, the last Canadian election was won through social media. Even the government knows it count. I doo enjoy you assurance though.
Sorry man...you are just a bit overboard on this. I love your enthusiasm...but it's too much for the average gas and go rider.
And I enjoy you taking the time to reply and give your thoughts, especially the chance to spar These are undoubtedly great sleds, and if problems are taken care of quickly then they will remain great. If we forget the problems in history then history will repeat itself. The 800 ETEC currently has a shorter life expectancy that the MachZ twin, and that doesn't bode well. In other words, if you tackle the problems quickly then you have a forum filled with solutions. But tell them they cannot use any tools when their dealers can't find the problems, then they will seek aftermarket solutions such as a PC5 or give up for a 4 stroke. You would be surprised how just a few owner being involved with finding the problems with their sleds could make a huge difference. Eel125 is a good example of this. Here is a link :