149 replies to this topic

[Ski-B]

Floating it will be the answer. Do not use the BRP kit. It will just come apart on you.

 

Give Brian a call the doodoctor.

 

The 600 sport sheave is a diff part number than the 900 ace sheave. the 600 sport sheave has held up well for me on my floater.

[Ronn]

Floating it will be the answer. Do not use the BRP kit. It will just come apart on you.

 

Give Brian a call the doodoctor.

 

The 600 sport sheave is a diff part number than the 900 ace sheave. the 600 sport sheave has held up well for me on my floater

 

I've had my eye on his kit that's for sure. 

[Ronn]

Here's the final update, wish it was better news. Turns out that the springs for the clutch were not approved by brp. Their statement was something to the effect of "No further assistance will be granted on this case" They have since closed my file. The dealer has been great throughout and told the rep that I am still having the problem. Again they gave the blanket statement of no further assistance. The rep even told the dealer that I bought the wrong sled for breaking trail... yeah, if you say so... I won't even get into that. 

 

I was of the opinion that these issues should be taken care of by brp, through warranty. I had this problem since new. I went about it the proper way, opened a case with the dealer, brought it there multiple times, and the case was closed. So can someone remind me of what that 3 year bumper to bumper warranty is really for?

 

I get it, there are aftermarket parts that can address issues. But most, like me with this type of sled aren't in the mountains doing extreme climbs in bottomless powder. This sled should work, and work as it was advertised. 

 

Very disappointed.  

[kanedog]

Brp warranty blows. Clutch issues. No help from brp or brp dealer AT ALL. $1,000 later and 20 wasted hours of my life I'll never get back.
Imo-brp puts put out unbalanced cranks and clutches with the heavily studied theory that 99% of sledders will not notice the vibration and wear on clutch and engine. By the time the problems are so bad that the sled needs major repair it is out of warranty and brp gets even more if your money. It's a joke. Brp is a corporate scam.
I cringe when I know that I have to walk into a brp dealer. I know that I get to beg for warranty, I get attitude, I get unknowledgeable mechanics(glorified parts changers) not interested in finding the cause of issues, disorganization, confusion of dealer employees, the list goes on.
What good is a 4 year warranty is an excellent question. All it means is that you get to argue and get denied warranty items for 4 years. Total crap.

Edited by kanedog, 15 April 2016 - 10:50 PM.

[newmachzx06]

Hello Boys!  Well its that time of year again!! The time we all start watching youtube videos of Skidoos and dreaming about winter lol  This year I not waiting for the snow to arrive to start working on fixing BRP's clutch problems..... I just re-read what that upmichigander got done from BRP to regulate the problem.... It took him over 100 hours of video recording and temp readings to get them to budge and I dont have the time or patience to go through what he did to get them to do something about it....I can tell you from what I have read, a re-gear, a tower brace and a DooDr floating kit is what is coming my way in the near future.  I say DooDr kit because the original from Doo is known to come apart under more extreme conditions...the sheath half are aluminum and just pressed on the shaft....heat..aluminum...expansion...you get my drift lol......So yeah it will cost around a grand to get that damm BCX to run like it should, but hell think of it.....do nothing and keep on buying belts and it wont be long to spend that grand anyway...and think about all the time spent changing those blown belts....and digging yourself out fo a hole since they always blow when you need to get out fo a bad place and you get stuck in the same time.....Hope you all have a great winter and I will be back to tell you hows it going when the snow hits....Here in Gaspe, Québec, that could be before Halloween lollll

[Dter1134]

Brp has been using that short shaft for a while now since the ace I think

They cant be all bad.

[skidoobrapper]

skidoos come with outlines on the inside of the panels to determine vent locations

[Daag44]

Hello Boys!  Well its that time of year again!! The time we all start watching youtube videos of Skidoos and dreaming about winter lol  This year I not waiting for the snow to arrive to start working on fixing BRP's clutch problems..... I just re-read what that upmichigander got done from BRP to regulate the problem.... It took him over 100 hours of video recording and temp readings to get them to budge and I dont have the time or patience to go through what he did to get them to do something about it....I can tell you from what I have read, a re-gear, a tower brace and a DooDr floating kit is what is coming my way in the near future.  I say DooDr kit because the original from Doo is known to come apart under more extreme conditions...the sheath half are aluminum and just pressed on the shaft....heat..aluminum...expansion...you get my drift lol......So yeah it will cost around a grand to get that damm BCX to run like it should, but hell think of it.....do nothing and keep on buying belts and it wont be long to spend that grand anyway...and think about all the time spent changing those blown belts....and digging yourself out fo a hole since they always blow when you need to get out fo a bad place and you get stuck in the same time.....Hope you all have a great winter and I will be back to tell you hows it going when the snow hits....Here in Gaspe, Québec, that could be before Halloween lollll

 

Upmichigander certainly did a great job of fixing the overheating belt trouble. To boot he used no floating secondary and even blocked the clutch vents that he had originally made in a futile attempt to correct a basic problem with clutch alignment, gearing and calibration.

[Daag44]

Below are a couple of good posts from UPMICHIGANDER to solve hot clutches and blown belts in deep snow conditions. While there is a mention to PM him, as far as I know he has already shared the essentials in these two posts. The full story can pretty much be found across various topics. I don't believe it is necessary to PM him to get any secrets for the reasons that I just mentioned.

There are also experienced members, sponsors and moderators who have shared their insights on clutch alignment, gearing and clutching. Some of them, like Dynamo^Joe and C & T Powersports can be found from page 2 and on of this topic, while others like MX-Z Man, Krm and Big John can be found in other topics. Instead of suggesting to search and spend countless hours trying to find everything, I added a hyperlink to their handle names so that you can just click to find their posts.

I believe that UPMICHIGANDER provided well rounded informational posts that showed how he addressed the problem with BRP's help and parts (for the most part). There was a mention of a Doodoctor floating QRS, but he did not use it to fix the problem.

There is something that a known racer on the MachZ forum tough me years ago about clutching that always stuck. He said - and I paraphrase in my own words - that I should first learn to how address hot clutches with stock components before getting into fancy mods. He is a racer so obviously he mods, but the point was to avoid cheating the basics. My motto is, if there is a problem then find the cause and fix it.

In another topic a member mashby mentioned the engine torque stopper adjustment (click here). I see this adjustment seldom being mentioned. The Summit has zero clearance due to its nature of riding in deep snow. A Freeride or Backcountry is not setup from factory for everyone. It is simply a base setup meant for the average conditions, riding styles and rider weight. So please feel free to make the necessary adjustments.

Another thing that is seldom if ever mentioned is the function of the engine mounts. They are meant to isolate the vibrations of the engine from the frame. The position of the supports on the engine and the frame affect how the vibrations are conducted to the frame. What is important to remember is the engine Rubber Mounts share the load of the engine torque while it moves to apply a load to the primary. This torque is meant to be shared among the 4 engine mounts as evenly as possible. Any adjustment to the engine stopper or any addition of a torque arm will change the load shared on the 4 engine mounts. So if you make any adjustments to the oem engine stopper or add an aftermarket torque arm, please keep a close eye on all the mounts and make it part of your preseason and midseason maintenance list.

Regarding vibrations, click this link for a good post on the subject for the 800s. This topic has some of the best information imo, including the links provided above. I hope that it helps.


 

Its a 3 part problem. Just went through it on my freeride. Its bad clutch calibration. Misalignment and gearing.

Summits get a jack shaft that is 3mm longer. There is a bulletin addressing it and states its for heavier snow loads. My freerides secondary was 3.6 mm in towards the chain case. Plus my belt was slipping 100% of the time. Massive amounts of belt dust and hot clutches.

I have a brand new summit jack shaft with bearing and fixed sheave. (Keep your 40 degree helix and your un fixed sheave to attach to this) (requires pulling your bearing)

A black 160/303 secondary spring

441 ramps with spring pins
A purple/pink 260/350 spring
Keep your (18.8 solid pins)

All brand new never used still in the package. 400 plus shipping. Basically getting the ramps and springs for free.

Problem solved for the cost of 2 belts, pm me.

This is in the freeride thread on the same topic

well ill let the cat out of the bag. I got all my parts warrantied and brp admitted its a known issue. As far as i know im the only one that they have done this for. At least i know im the only case about it on the BOSS website.

I got all new clutch parts, the summit shaft, 19/49 gears, and a QRS Tech Link for free. And all through a dealer that i didn't even buy the sled from. If you go to your dealer and say a guy on dootalk got this deal i promise your answer will be no. I got the opportunity to deal with brp directly. I went about it in a different way then all. I fully expected doo to tell me to get bent so i bought all the stuff myself and a doodoctor floating qrs. That is why i have duplicates of everything im trying to sell at a fraction of new.

You may not have blown a belt yet with 20/45 but if you start climbing you will.

My experience still is that the best setup is proper alignment, QRS Tech Link and a Clutch kit.

I don't need vents and in fact plugged 2 with the prefilter kit because my clutches don't get hot anymore.

Pm me if you want more info but my best advice is get a laser thermometer and let that be the determining factor if your belt is slipping or not. If you have a lot of belt dust you are slipping.

Edited by Daag44, 20 December 2020 - 04:17 PM.

[Daag44]

Here is another post that found very helpful on the subject of belt wear.
 
http://www.dootalk.c...2#entry16912530
 

pick a belt...stay with it...clutch to it...dont play musical belts...BJ

 

If belt wear becomes a real problem, then it is worth investing to monitor belt temps. The folks with SxS and ATVs driven by CVT clutches have done this for many years. However it is the same problem for every owner, too many gauges can drive one crazy. I monitor the clutches with my hands which works fine for me, but if I ever encounter a problem with belt wear that grows out of hand and takes too much of my time and $$$, I won't hesitate to get a little more sophisticated.

[Daag44]

Hopefully the last quote from BJ n another topic wasn't out of context, but I believe it holds true regardless of the underlying problem. It was encouraging to see so many owners take part in this topic and hopefully their experience will prove helpful to others. I sure did for me.

[Ronn]

Original poster here: 

 

Haven't been on this thread in a while so I thought I would post an update about the sled for future readers if they run into the same problem I did.

 

Issue: Hot clutches, blown belts and popping cords

 

Solution: Summit 3mm secondary shaft that got alignment in spec, full DJ clutching: springs/ramps/helix/adjustable weights, 21/45 gears, QRS brace and added vents to the rear of both side panels to get some of the hot air out. 

 

I have not blown a belt in years. The sled rocks.

 

My advice is to get a hold of Joe (ibackshift.com)in Thunder Bay Ontario, he will get you set up for your style of riding.

Edited by Ronn, 22 October 2020 - 01:55 AM.

[Daag44]

I think that you got it right, including the QRS Tech Link and 3mm longer countershaft. I understand there is a lingering question about these two items which are what led me to this reply.
 
As the XP/Gen2 frame ages I am seeing more tears in the frame where the QRS tower bolts to. This makes it increasingly difficult for me to ignore the need for a brace on sleds under high loads. When I first saw the G4 850 with its pto side engine brace that incorporates the QRS tower, it became evident that BRP had been working on a better overall setup.
 
For the 3mm longer countershaft, this is something that BRP has explained in their tech manuals, and I believe that your 137" did need it. The affect on the CVT is Parallel Misalignment. I linked the term to a drawing that I found for gear alignment and made my own drawings to show the exaggerated effects on the CVT belt. The explanation came from [email protected] Racing which is what led me to draw it out. When Tim first told me about the alignment tool and method, I was literally left dumbfounded and speechless. Everything that I had been chasing for 20 years was finally drawing to a close.
 
I have managed to mention everyone who has had a major impact with how I understand the CVT. Having brought your 137" to BRP to get fixed, then adding the clutching and venting, you have a sled worth talking about. For those reasons plus starting your own thread and completing it, you are one of the people that I want to thank. Having your thread in my FAQ for at least three years, I think the impact that it has had on me personally speaks for itself.
 
Thank you!
Charles/Daag44

 

[Ronn]

Thanks Daag, much appreciated. Hopefully this helps someone out in the future. There is quite a bit of information on this site now about these sleds and how to fix belt blowers. Interesting take on the QRS shaft. It likely does what it's designed to do by keeping things aligned under load. Now that I think of it, my wife's Polaris Assault has what looks to be flat aluminum stock running between the frame and CVT. Reminds me of guys doing that to their race sleds to tackle the extreme loads. QRS link is no different.

 

I'm happy with the decision to go with the 3mm shaft. There were a lot of recommendations to float the secondary. Which completely makes sense to me. The shaft at the time was covered by BRP as my dealer and BRP were good to deal with. The good thing for people going forward is that part is available if someone doesn't want to spend the money to float. A cheaper (used) shaft that fixes alignment... that's a no brainer. I never liked the idea of the shim although it has worked for many.

 

The other thing with my setup is that since I got my Summit, the Backcountry has seen quite a few more trail miles. The fixed alignment spec for the deep snow has worked very well on trail, with no abnormal belt wear or heat. 

[Daag44]

I am partial to the OEM fixed shaft which has less flex. The problem I have seen with the QRS was with high runout. My sample size is to small to make any kind of generalization, yet I saw some wild runout that were reaching 0.100" !  It was bad for the belt, and the vibrations transmitted to the chassis was atrocious!
 
At the end of Feb of 2017 when BRP gave us the tech behind the 0.024" runout on the pDrive, for me it was literally a jaw dropping read in disbelief. I couldn't help thinking through the effects of the QRS. I had never thought about the engine swigging from the firing/combustion. It also never occurred to me that the sheave runout would loosen and tighten the belt with each revolution. I had already understood that high runout was a major problem, but was only thinking of the belt wavering too much causing massive misalignment. For the excess vibrations, I was only thinking of everything being out of wack. Understandably I was - figuratively - hitting myself over the head for not having pieced at least some of the puzzle. It is difficult not too after working so hard on something and all of sudden realizing that I was missing the basic understanding.
 
So what to do, float or fixed? My vote is fixed with shims if needed. The floating shaft that has more flex which adds yet another variable with increase belt length and a change in CVT ratio. And who knows how it affects vibrations. I always keep in mind the technology behind the pDrive for the G4 850 as it explains the source of vibrations.