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Why do they hate us?

4K views 29 replies 22 participants last post by  stmike 
#1 ·
I work in an area of health care where all kinds of injuries come in for surgery. Every time a snowmobile related injury, well any motorized off-road activity, comes in I get a lecture on how dangerous it is. They know have sleds, quads and dirt bikes, so I am the target. One day I had a person tell me that he saw statistics on how snowmobile related avalanche deaths were the most of any other activity in the mountains, and how if I went into the mountains on my sled that I deserved to be killed. Harsh words I thought, especially for a guy that did backcountry skiing in his younger years. It is a terrible thing to have anybody lose their life in any activity and I feel for the families of those that have passed away. I was not sure about statistics so I thought I would look into it, well this is what I found. It seems that snowmobillers have the biggest percentage until you look at the fact that skiing and heli skiing are separate, as well as snowboarding. Maybe I am mistaken but it seems to me that those three are pretty similar, and clearly are the majority statistically. It is a little easier to see why the dislike of snowmobillers when statistics are manipulated in this manner. Azure Rectangle Font Screenshot Software
 

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#3 ·
I haven't gone to the mountains sledding yet but I plan on going some day. I got to an avalanche safety class every year by mike Dailey I think his name is. Its free so I go. He says in the class that sledders are taking advantage of the abs backpacks and transmitters and learn how to use them. Now sledders still have a higher avalanche rate but with proper use of equipment they are surviving. This equipment has not caught on for skiing or boarding for some reason so I think the tables will turn in the next few years.
 
#4 ·
Doesn't make sense that they have Skiing, Snowboarding, and Heli-skiing broken out as separate stats... all three are basically the same activity. Which begs the question... does it really matter how they accessed the backcountry? If skiers & snowboarders didn't get there by helicopter, then it was either by hiking/skiing in, by snowcat, or by snowmobile.

Clearly anyone who goes into avalanche prone areas of the backcountry is potentially at risk, regardless of the type of activity they may be engaged in. I mean, if they wanted to, those pencil pushers who like to crunch numbers and make big $$$ creating statistical charts could take it even further and break out the stats according to the other types of conveyances (hike/ski in, snowcat, sled, etc.) those skiers and snowboarders who died in avalanches used to access those areas. At the end of the day, does it really matter?... dead is dead.

In any case it sounds like some of your co-workers are nothing more than clueless idiots when it comes to the issue of "number of avalanche deaths by activity".

If it were me, I wouldn't even bother discussing the topic with your knucklehead co-workers... tell 'em that what you choose to do in your free time is none of their business.
 
#6 ·
I haven't gone to the mountains sledding yet but I plan on going some day. I got to an avalanche safety class every year by mike Dailey I think his name is. Its free so I go. He says in the class that sledders are taking advantage of the abs backpacks and transmitters and learn how to use them. Now sledders still have a higher avalanche rate but with proper use of equipment they are surviving. This equipment has not caught on for skiing or boarding for some reason so I think the tables will turn in the next few years.
I think you've got that backwards... avalanche safety training, as well as equipment such as Peeps & Ortovox becons, has been around in the ski industry for a lot longer than it has been in the snowmobile world. ABS backpacks, while relatively new in terms of avy safety, were originally developed by companies well established within the backcountry skiing industry... Mammut, Black Diamond, BCA, etc.
 
#7 ·
Being that they break up skiing, snowboarding and heli/skiing. How many of the snowmobile deaths were skiers riding snowmobiles the ski sight? If they did get there via snowmobile, was it classified as skiing or snowmobiling? Snowmobilers are hated. We flatlanders have different issues but a lot of people hate us the same way.
 
#9 ·
I think you've got that backwards... avalanche safety training, as well as equipment such as Peeps & Ortovox becons, has been around in the ski industry for a lot longer than it has been in the snowmobile world. ABS backpacks, while relatively new in terms of avy safety, were originally developed by companies well established within the backcountry skiing industry... Mammut, Black Diamond, BCA, etc.
entirely possible im only relaying what I thought I heard lol long story short there should be less deaths every year due to the equipment
 
#10 ·
While we agree that the statistics are way skewed, we also think that this kind of media should be fuel to our fire to protect our sport and do something about what is said rather than argue the way they tally the totals. Just last night our entire staff attended Mike Duffy's FREE Class at the Local Doo dealer, and it was once again very educational. Something you should go to yearly, no matter how many times you have seen the lecture, pictures and video. The owner of Blown Motor has gone through AST1 and AST2 and still goes to the class just for the educational experience and to refresh the brain yearly. If you have the opportunity, make every effort to go to a class, even if you don't plan to ride the west. Knowledge is empowering and one day your knowledge, may save somebodies life, or your own.

Touching on the gear topic, IronDog said it well. Avalanche gear does not make you safer, it makes finding you easier and increases your chances of surviving an avalanche. You, the user are the ONLY thing that will make your trip safer. You can go ride with the best gear on the market and make a bad choice and be dead just as easy with a beacon, airbag, shovel, probe etc. as without. In the end, knowledge is the most important investment when talking safety, followed by correct gear, and knowing how to use it.
 
#23 ·
Well if that's the case, maybe our friendly Yankee neighbors can try to show us how it's done then. Keen to learn something new every day!
Ignorance to Avy danger exists everywhere. There is more than enough information provided for people to make a sound decision whether travel in Avy terrain is safe. Even with all that provided info, I still see many people unprepared and uneducated out in the mountains. My group and I watched three guys get dragged down a slope through trees and survive, no Avy equipment. 2 Sleds ruined. So lucky to be alive. We weren't near anything with a slope that day. The hills in the back was where the Avy came down.
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#13 ·
Ha! We have quite a few deaths in the USA due to avalanches as well.

There are lies, damn lies, and statistics.

I read that report above and it reads to me that there are 101 deaths due to skiing or snowboarding. 79 on Snowmobile.

Every year we hear about the number of snowmachine deaths here in Alaska. I took a closer look into what was causing these deaths and found that about half of them were only related to the snowmobile because that was their mode of transportation to get where they were going. A good example of this was a few years ago, two kids wanted to go ice skating. The rode a snowmobile out to the lake, shoveled off a portion of the snow off the ice, the ice broke through and 1 of the 2 kids drowned. The state of Alaska called that a snowmobile death. They were not even on the snowmobile when it happened. The snowmobile was parked on the edge of the lake. Another case, a guy was traveling between his mothers house and his own home when he had a heart attack and died. Again, the state of Alaska called it a snowmobile death. I could go on, but you see what I mean.
 
#15 · (Edited by Moderator)
The only thing I'm getting out of this is that our friends the Canadians have no idea how to ride snowmobiles in the mountains!
Where is the 'Dislike This' button?

Ha! We have quite a few deaths in the USA due to avalanches as well.
We certainly do... far too many.

Last season in the U.S. there were 35 avalanche fatalities. The 2012 - 2013 season saw 24 deaths. During the 2011- 2012 season it was 34 fatalities.

The website Avalanche.org has the incident database, which is compiled by the Colorado Avalanche Information Center: http://avalanche.org/accidents.php?date=2013-2014
 
#16 ·
The only thing I'm getting out of this is that our friends the Canadians have no idea how to ride snowmobiles in the mountains!
Ignorance....
 
#17 ·
Unfortunately......those who have the least amount of knowledge always seem to be the ones preaching the most.

I love when someone lectures me about the "danger" of what I am dooing.

Then I ask them if they ride, or ski, etc.....they say "no....but I have read on the internet."

It just makes me shake my head.
 
#18 ·
Its because we're having fun burning fossil fuels and they're not.

The difference between a conservative and a liberal;

If a conservative doesn't like something they don't participate.

If a liberal doesn't like something they want it banned.

Am I wrong?
 
#19 ·
Its because we're having fun burning fossil fuels and they're not.

The difference between a conservative and a liberal;

If a conservative doesn't like something they don't participate.

If a liberal doesn't like something they want it banned.

Am I wrong?
Nope your correct 100%. I absolutely hate liberals. The most ignorant uninformed creatures that inhabit this planet.
 
#20 ·
Personally I could care less if someone likes or dislikes me and if I die doing something I love then so be it! But in all seriousness, Irondog has it right. Education is key and having avy gear only provides a false sense of security, practice good back country habits and live to ride another day....theres always tomorrow or next week to ride that other bowl or do that steep climb.
 
#21 · (Edited by Moderator)
Personally I could care less if someone likes or dislikes me and if I die doing something I love then so be it! But in all seriousness, Irondog has it right. Education is key and having avy gear only provides a false sense of security, practice good back country habits and live to ride another day....theres always tomorrow or next week to ride that other bowl or do that steep climb.
Exactly right... I'd add that while having training and knowledge is key, implementing what you know is what will make the difference between becoming an avalanche victim, and avoiding being caught in one in the first place

You have to wonder how many of those who perished in avalanches might be alive today had they made better decisions, including doing the work to properly assess the conditions in that area. Regardless of type of activity, I doubt many avalanche victims took the time to dig a snow pit in order to test the layers and assess the risk of those particular slopes. If they had, they likely would have seen the multiple layers of hard crust and depth hoar underneath the top layer of powder, making the slope prime for a slide.
 
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