146 replies to this topic

[Freestylin']

Yeah depending on how great the backcountry riding is I may swap out my 39" ski stance for the 32?" that's on the 300f freestyles. Make an aftermarket anti-sway to connect for trail riding and remove for carving...Would be pretty much limitless for carving pow.

[tbeaton]

tim, 155 is still longer than i feel i need in New Hampshire, but the carving ability is something i would love to test. 137, maybe 144 would be the biggest i need... i love my renegade and with the deeper lugs i get it to go most places i should go, and a lot i shouldnt. i do want to narrow the front this summer to at least the summit front.

alot of guys feel that way, and to be honest i was one of them. but look how many guys are going to the 155. summits, m's and rmks are starting to be very popular in the longer lengths. i took a huge gamble going to the 155 having not ridden one, but i'm very happy with it and i'm sure you would be as well, regardless of what color sled you buy.


jb, cp, i have had just as many mountain sleds as you guys, 1. what i was saying about the s36 is that yes it helps the sled roll better, but it only addresses one issue on that sled and its not perfect. the xp chassis is a trail sled first, mountain sled second. the summit is just an extended mxz. cat and poo have a sled that rolls easy and the arms are out at 40" and on some of thier sleds out at 42" and it still rolls over easy. doo needs a dedicated mountain chassis for the summit. if they go any narrrower with the front they might as well just put one ski under it.

to comment on me riding one with the s36, you are right i have not ridden one as i have not had the chance. i have stepped foot on jb's and backed it out of the garage and stood on the running board and i did not feel that it was as easy as my rmk or ryans proclimb to get it onto its side. i was able to pull ryans sled over on its side and hold it there with one foot the other day, no hands needed to keep it balanced.

okay shock, its your turn, lay it on me buddy. i know you bleed yellow.

[tbeaton]

Faaakin love the S36. I was laying the sled over on its side on the hills and walking it sidehill as far as I felt like it with minimal effort. No more yanking to pull the sled into the hill like before. I've never riden the summits in the woods, I only rode Irydslow's summit on the trails that day we rode with them. It had a lot to be desired in the whoops compared to a coupled supension, but that isn't what it is built for. Straight rails are built for the climbs, not as much for the trails.

I don't even agree with people that say there is no difference between 121 and 137 on the trail, nevermind between 137 and 154. I absolutely notice a difference from the XP 121 and the XP 137. It is a little more work in the corners, but it definitely bridges gaps between whoops better. The S36 makes it a little more challenging in the corners but nothing that you are going to be complaining about. The only thing I will say is take a little time to get used to the new tip-ability. It is way easier in the beginning to lay her right down on her side, so it takes some getting used to so that you aren't spinning the sled out on the sidehill.

Also, the S36 makes it way easier to roll the sled out of an uphill stuck. Between Earl of Sandwich and I, and the unlimited powder hill climbs we've been crushing, we rolled our sleds easily over 50 times total this season. Burandt wrote an article about rolling the sled out of a trench that jon and I read and it has been the best advice we've ever read. No matter how deep the trench is, I don't even take out my shovel anymore. Roll it once, right out of the trench, sled sits back upright, pull it and go (obviously less desirable with a ptek and carbs). My stucks last about 5 minutes, max.

I'm really curious about this new mountain suspension Doo is talking about too. sorry about the book, just a lot of stuff to talk about.

word is you and mr. sandwich can ride the hell out of anything. and yes the "burant" roll is very effective, you just have to be careful about those pesky kill switches. on the pro, you can't move it down, so it likes to get ripped off. i have also read a few reviews on the new summit and guys are saying its a little rough riding it on trails and bumps. guys said they had to hold on tight in corners and bumps. i'm sure its good in the powder, i was thinking it would be cool to have a lockout feature ( like used on mountain bike shocks) to stop the side to side movement of the t motion when you don't want it.

[Irydslow]

Tim you've had maybe 6 weekends of burning the trails on your mtn sled this year. The snow in Gaspe wasn't even that deep. To say the s36 is a bandaid is just naive. Your experience with the summit is backing it ten feet out of the garage?! That gives you the expertise to comment on it's manueverability and responsiveness? Seems to me like you're making a lot of assumptions based upon "what guys have said", and "standing on Ryans sled with no hands", aka "heresy"...

[mattyboy2984]

Mattyboy--

Thanks for the response on the S36! Sounds like an awesome upgrade. I ride a 2011 Backcountry 800 ETEC and am leaning heavy towards a S36 front end as a summer project. Couple more questions if you don't mind. Are you running your sway bar connected all the time? On trail, off trail do you disconnect or run without? Also if you run without it or disconnected did you adjust front shock pressures(stiffen them up) to do so? I've been thinking of disconnecting this weekend to try it out and I've been reading that when disconnected the front shocks should be run at a stiffer setting. Just looking for your thoughts from experience off trailing a BC. Thanks again.

The quote above is the exact reason for these threads. Sharing information and opinions. Instead of Ksnow24 spending the whole day switching through his front shock pressures with and without the sway bar, he can immediately try something that others have tried and had success with.

My opinion, get rid of the sway bar completely. Don't disconnect it and leave it in there. Back the set screws off all the way and pull the connections off and pull the entire sway bar out of the sled. You don't even need it and you WILL NOT notice a difference on the trail. You WILL notice a difference in sidehill capability. Burandt will say in videos that he leaves his in. Burandt is an unreal rider but he also talks about what amazing things his "bone stock" sleds can do. If you drop a turbo and a clutch kit into a sled, what is left thats stock besides pistons, rings and heads? The snow he is riding is always deep as "edit for bad language", which we dont have the luxury of riding most of the year, so it makes a huge difference in being able to carve with or witout the sway bar (which he says there is no reason to remove it. He also says in one video that you should never have to hang your leg off the sled to manipulate it, but if you've watched his videos, he rarely has more then one leg on the sled, but anyway). You will notice it the most on the sidehill. You want to be perpendicular to the hill but your sled wants to be parallel to the slope and put both skis on the snow. Take the sway bar out and your skis become completely independant, allowing the inner ski to carve into the hill and the other to float a bit better.

I cranked the ski pressure right down on my front skis. I've tried to adjust everything in all directions and found the following things out about the front ski pressures. Loosen them up all the way, plan on bucking your sled directly into the woods on the trails. You lose ski control so easily with no ski pressure. Tighten them all the way up and you'll do fine on the trails and you'll be able to dip your inside ski a little better on carves and sidehills.

The S36 gives you one of, if not THE, narrowest ski stances in the industry. Is narrow always good, no, but I think Ski-Doo hit the nail on the head with this one, but I give the consumers complaining about the stock front end just as much credit for this mod as I give Doo. Eventually ski doo is going to give the consumer EXACTLY what they want in a mountain sled, it is just going to take time for them to drift away from making every sled "trail capable". This has worked for them especialy because at one time, they had more market share then all the other brands combined selling their trail sleds. They came out with a new chassis almost every four-five years for a period throught the late 90s to early 2000s, so they kept things fresh.

Kudos to Polaris for recognizing Doos shortcomings in the mountain industry and picking up the ball and running with it. I may possibly ride my first assault this weekend as two guys we are riding with both have 2012 assaults. I will give them a whip and report back, as unbiased as possible

Tim, I will say Jon (earl of sandwich) and I put time in for sure. I'm not going to sit here and say im a better rider then anyone on here but we try and go everywhere and i mean everywhere. We pick a mountain from miles away and we get there, no matter what. We dig each other out all day long and for most part are loners. A riding style we enjoy but we also got the opportunity to ride with Justin and Chris last year and had a blast. We're always willing to meet up with people but it is also tough to find the same type of riders from forums. We will get up at 4 and drive up to ....... and ride for the day and drive home 4 hours back to MA. It is a sick addiction but we love every second of it, you have to be that way to find the good stuff.

On that note, I am calling in sick Friday and driving up Thursday night after my PE prep class at 10 pm. I will arrive at my house in Madison a little after midnight. I'll get about 5 hours of sleep and then I will trailer, with the Earl, north approximately 1.5 hours (some will know where I am by now) past many towns full of trail rideable snow and we will ride our sleds off the trailer, ride 10 minutes from the truck and be in untouched snow, over 5 feet deep, mere miles from a place many people drive right past. Then we will trailer back to Madison and doo it all over again on saturday.

Chris and Justin, if you guys are interested in riding SOUTH, let us know and we can meet up with you guys. The snow is deep as hell about an hours sled ride south of Dayna B.

[Irydslow]

Chris and Justin, if you guys are interested in riding SOUTH, let us know and we can meet up with you guys. The snow is deep as hell about an hours sled ride south of Dayna B.

Ah man, I wish I could Matty, but I'm waiting for some clutch parts that aren't going to be in until Friday. I think I know the place ur talking about. Brev and I were there a couple weeks back, saw some beautiful areas, but were running short on time and had to bail out of there. Brev might be up for it this weekend. Stay in touch tho, I'd like to hook up for a ride w you guys before the big thaw...

[ksnow24]

The quote above is the exact reason for these threads. Sharing information and opinions. Instead of Ksnow24 spending the whole day switching through his front shock pressures with and without the sway bar, he can immediately try something that others have tried and had success with.

My opinion, get rid of the sway bar completely. Don't disconnect it and leave it in there. Back the set screws off all the way and pull the connections off and pull the entire sway bar out of the sled. You don't even need it and you WILL NOT notice a difference on the trail. You WILL notice a difference in sidehill capability. Burandt will say in videos that he leaves his in. Burandt is an unreal rider but he also talks about what amazing things his "bone stock" sleds can do. If you drop a turbo and a clutch kit into a sled, what is left thats stock besides pistons, rings and heads? The snow he is riding is always deep as "edit for bad language", which we dont have the luxury of riding most of the year, so it makes a huge difference in being able to carve with or witout the sway bar (which he says there is no reason to remove it. He also says in one video that you should never have to hang your leg off the sled to manipulate it, but if you've watched his videos, he rarely has more then one leg on the sled, but anyway). You will notice it the most on the sidehill. You want to be perpendicular to the hill but your sled wants to be parallel to the slope and put both skis on the snow. Take the sway bar out and your skis become completely independant, allowing the inner ski to carve into the hill and the other to float a bit better.

I cranked the ski pressure right down on my front skis. I've tried to adjust everything in all directions and found the following things out about the front ski pressures. Loosen them up all the way, plan on bucking your sled directly into the woods on the trails. You lose ski control so easily with no ski pressure. Tighten them all the way up and you'll do fine on the trails and you'll be able to dip your inside ski a little better on carves and sidehills.

The S36 gives you one of, if not THE, narrowest ski stances in the industry. Is narrow always good, no, but I think Ski-Doo hit the nail on the head with this one, but I give the consumers complaining about the stock front end just as much credit for this mod as I give Doo. Eventually ski doo is going to give the consumer EXACTLY what they want in a mountain sled, it is just going to take time for them to drift away from making every sled "trail capable". This has worked for them especialy because at one time, they had more market share then all the other brands combined selling their trail sleds. They came out with a new chassis almost every four-five years for a period throught the late 90s to early 2000s, so they kept things fresh.

Thanks man! I agree that this kind of info. Is exactly why I joined the forum this year when I got my new BC. Rode revs for years but had little to no XP experience. Ive been doing a ton of reading on this but I really appreciate your local experienced opinion. I'm gonna disconnect for the weekend, stiffen the front all the way down and run it! Looking forward to finding some fresh!! I will report back my findings as well. Thanks again!

[Bruinrev]

So you say a skinny stance is just a band aid. Then why did the 2013 Artic Cat Mountain sleds decide to also skinny up their ski stance as well? Maybe skidoo was on to something. And the whole arguement about skidoo taking a trail sled and just extending it out is so 2008. Yes in 08 the new xp mountain sled was just a trail sled extended. But they fixed some of those issues with the 2010 rear suspension upgrade and again this year with the S-36. And both me and Irydslow have only owned 1 mountain sled but have a year more of riding on it, especially last year in the deep snow. And the 2013 mountain sled is a mountain specific sled, although unproven they did take the time to make it mountain specfic. And you can yap all you want about a chasis, which has been fixed, but you cannot not even begin to compare motors. But you already know that from your BCX. But my question is, What internet boyfriend are you going to follow next year, sticking with the poo or going artic crap?!?!?!

[Bruinrev]

And another thing about this whole 136, 144, 154 arguement. Its BS IMO. Ride whatever the F you want. I actually have experience on a rev 136 and found it to be not to much different than a 121. Switching to the 154 was an eye opening experience. Irydslow says it best, you dig out less with a 154 so you can save your back and enjoy the day some more. And you can choose different lines with out having to think too much. For me, being a hockey player (a goalie to boot), I'm not very bright. I don't want to have to think to much out there riding, I just want to listen to my music, daydream about giant bombs on a beach in maui, and ride the snow. So I actually don't think a 154 is overkill, it just makes things easier to float thru the snow. You can make things as hard or as easy as you want with our terrain and trees out here.

Mattyboy - with your s-36 and you removing your sway your essentially sacrificing any bit of trail sled characteristics that your BCX had, for the most part. So essentially your somewhat riding a summit. You should consider a summit for your next sled if you guys continue to like to ride the deep. I think you you would enjoy the 154 with the 2.5" lug. Its a lot of fun powering thru some areas with it. And correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the BCX was uncoupled? It was the regular renegade that still maintained the coupled suspension. I'm prolly wrong but just some food for thought. Carry on men!

[New Too Doo]

After reading all this information, and it is really good information, there is really only one solution to all of this.

Two sleds: A shorty to tear up the trails and a summit or rmk for the backcountry.

HHmmmm, can someone say spring order? I think my wife might kill me.

[shock123]

Ok my take is this.I personally beleive the SkiDoo is far more advanced than Poo,Cat,Yam.Alone with the Etec technology they have over taken the industry.They have had the Etec for a long time in boat motors which alone has outsold the outboard industry by a 85% ratio.As far as Sled features beleive it or not Skidoo has a large team of experts digging into what is next.They are not blind sided on the feauters other company's are coming out with.Poo has one person who gives there team feed back and we all know who that is.I have ridden a rmk and they are not nearly as crisp and my summit.They are way underpowered and they are very narrow through the seat and tunnel section.I would not take a rmk if it was given to me I would sell asap.The Cat so so not a big fan.Thay have been chasen there tail for years to compete with Doo,Poo,Yam.Yamaha needs to get into the game they need to think about a two stroke mountian machine.They again are chasing there tail yes they brought Chris Brown on baord to try to make a splash but no try again.I do not think that the s-36 paired with the ds skis is any sort of band aid.I do not think skidoo has to band aid anything.I think more of the sleds as a band aid.Poo has the rmk thats a band aid for a marginal rider look at it the machine is so tippy it makes us all look good.Put Burant on Summit lets see what ya got ?.Cat and Yam need more time much more to discuss them.For those that know me I put in a lot of time a real lot researching products from stock to metals being used in manufacturing these sleds and I have found over and over that Skidoo is far more advanced than any other.Just my take ride what you want but Yes I am a fan of Doo.

[nordicmike]

is the s 36 good on the shorter renegade then? or would just a backcountry front end or original summit front be enough? where i typically ride over 4000 a year its obvious i need a trail rideable sled, and on a teachers salary will never afford two sleds...

im seriously working on the coin to pick up a summit riders front that they have taken off for an s 36

[Bruinrev]

is the s 36 good on the shorter renegade then? or would just a backcountry front end or original summit front be enough? where i typically ride over 4000 a year its obvious i need a trail rideable sled, and on a teachers salary will never afford two sleds...

im seriously working on the coin to pick up a summit riders front that they have taken off for an s 36

I dunno, maybe stick with what you got if you doo that many miles. The front end makes a difference if your carving or sidehilling. I have the new S-36 and took off my old summit front end but I'm not sure how much that would actually help you. Part of the kit is raising the front end a bit. In fact I think that is the more important aspect to making it work. I know what your saying about the cost of these darn things now a days. I'm selling my summit and old trail sled just to be able to afford a new summit for next year and I might have to even put up one of my kids on top of that!!!!! But that is life!!

[nordicmike]

i think thats why im venturing towards a summit front on my renegade... as i venture more and more off and my mileage decreases... there have been a few times i would like to have been able to carve more effortlessly out of a hairy predicament...

[Irydslow]

Just speak to what you know. I guess it's just part of the danger of an online forum in general. If I ask for input on a mechanical issue, I'd expect people with actual experience with the problem to chime in. Not regurgitate what they've "heard". That adds zero benefit, and can actually perpetuate bad info. I don't speak about how the Cats maneuver or sidehill, bc I have no experience riding them. They appear to be capable machines, but I've witnessed first hand a lot of guys having mechanical issues with brand new machines, like Ron's, Skips, Ryan's, and David's. I liked the Poo when I got to ride Max's last year, it was way easier to maneuver than my summit, but the power was a concern. I'm a bit on the husky side, so I needed a good power plant to get my fat seat up the steep areas. The Summit was a beast to carve all last year, the deep snow conditions helped but still not effortless, but it climbed like a champ. However, after installing the S36 kit it became the sled for me. It's easy to maneuver now, especially without the sway bar, and has plenty of power when I need it. That's all. I'm done.