380 replies to this topic

[tom warga]

I dont come on here much but i figured people might like to know how to get there mach to actually run. My 05 has been a disaster since I bought it, all sorts of electrical glitches, the sled did not pay any attention to the intake air sensor, was always running in open loop limp home mode. Exhaust valves would sometimes work etc. What I found is basically bad electrical design procedures from doo. The grounds on the sled consist of analog and digital. the wires are way too small and are designed for fast assembly not proper grounds. All the grounds run through a connector on the voltage regulator then go to a lug that attaches to one of the regulator bolts. This ground then finds it's way to the battery and engine through the chassis (crapola) . This connector is too small, it melts causing a ground potential rise. the computer ground is also a very small wire attached to the chassis just under the steering. this has to cary all the current for 2 fuel pumps, ignition, valves, the cpu and gauges. this is just wrong. Also the electric fuel pump under the motor is of a poor design it is a very high current pulse pump that causes elecrical noise and interferes with the ignition and map sensor. You must Replace this pump with a rotary vane pump, carter makes a very nice one for under a hundred bucks. To repair the grounds remove the Gauge cluster, open the wiring harness on the top, you will find a bunch of black wires all connected in the harness. open the splice and solder a 10 gauge wire to this ground splice, and run it to the battery, also run it to the front of the sled to just behind the fuse box. this is where doo puts a capacitor on the non electric start models. connect to this capacitor ground as well. You cant have enough good grounds connected to this sled.
Next is the power, also a disaster, the power comes from the regulator also through a small connector that melts. I measured 9.6 volts on the power connector that doo supplies for the heated visor.... it should be 13.5 or so. run another 10 gauge power wire from the battery to the fuse panel and + of the capacitor, put another 30 amp fuse in it. also directly wire the regulator +12 output directly to the battery with 10 gauge wire bypassing the small connector. I then install a giant capacitor 68,000 uf @ 25 volts. I have a bunch of these caps if people want one I need 35 bucks for one including shipping. I installed a relay to power the external fuel pump, doo just tagged it to the tank pump and it is enabled by the cpu applying ground to it. this is just crap, it causes all sorts of noises and glitches. put in a relay for the extra pump and let your cpu and all the sensors have nice quiet ground. When i rode the sled last winter after fixing all the wiring crap it idled perfectly at 1200 rpm had amazing throttle responce and went like hell. it has never run that well I bet doo stopped production of this sled because of all the glitches it had because of poor electrical engineering. I suspect the 600 sdi sleds have the same bad wiring design.
tom

[skimp369]

Wow...I had the ground under the engin melt on me also. I just did a by with that connection. was 90 miles out so did what i had to. any pictures? I wouldn't mind doing all this to my sled, the engin is going to be pulled apart in the next month. had a seiz after going over around a mile of ice watter.

[1000TwinPower]

I dont come on here much but i figured people might like to know how to get there mach to actually run. My 05 has been a disaster since I bought it, all sorts of electrical glitches, the sled did not pay any attention to the intake air sensor, was always running in open loop limp home mode. Exhaust valves would sometimes work etc. What I found is basically bad electrical design procedures from doo. The grounds on the sled consist of analog and digital. the wires are way too small and are designed for fast assembly not proper grounds. All the grounds run through a connector on the voltage regulator then go to a lug that attaches to one of the regulator bolts. This ground then finds it's way to the battery and engine through the chassis (crapola) . This connector is too small, it melts causing a ground potential rise. the computer ground is also a very small wire attached to the chassis just under the steering. this has to cary all the current for 2 fuel pumps, ignition, valves, the cpu and gauges. this is just wrong. Also the electric fuel pump under the motor is of a poor design it is a very high current pulse pump that causes elecrical noise and interferes with the ignition and map sensor. You must Replace this pump with a rotary vane pump, carter makes a very nice one for under a hundred bucks. To repair the grounds remove the Gauge cluster, open the wiring harness on the top, you will find a bunch of black wires all connected in the harness. open the splice and solder a 10 gauge wire to this ground splice, and run it to the battery, also run it to the front of the sled to just behind the fuse box. this is where doo puts a capacitor on the non electric start models. connect to this capacitor ground as well. You cant have enough good grounds connected to this sled.
Next is the power, also a disaster, the power comes from the regulator also through a small connector that melts. I measured 9.6 volts on the power connector that doo supplies for the heated visor.... it should be 13.5 or so. run another 10 gauge power wire from the battery to the fuse panel and + of the capacitor, put another 30 amp fuse in it. also directly wire the regulator +12 output directly to the battery with 10 gauge wire bypassing the small connector. I then install a giant capacitor 68,000 uf @ 25 volts. I have a bunch of these caps if people want one I need 35 bucks for one including shipping. I installed a relay to power the external fuel pump, doo just tagged it to the tank pump and it is enabled by the cpu applying ground to it. this is just crap, it causes all sorts of noises and glitches. put in a relay for the extra pump and let your cpu and all the sensors have nice quiet ground. When i rode the sled last winter after fixing all the wiring crap it idled perfectly at 1200 rpm had amazing throttle responce and went like hell. it has never run that well I bet doo stopped production of this sled because of all the glitches it had because of poor electrical engineering. I suspect the 600 sdi sleds have the same bad wiring design.
tom

are you serious.

[tom warga]

Wow...I had the ground under the engin melt on me also. I just did a by with that connection. was 90 miles out so did what i had to. any pictures? I wouldn't mind doing all this to my sled, the engin is going to be pulled apart in the next month. had a seiz after going over around a mile of ice watter.

I dont have any pictures but it is not all that hard to do. I also attribute the 2 engine burn downs I have had to this problem. The injectors were not getting full control voltage. I had the injectors cleaned and flow tested before and after cleaning, they were fine.
basically just replace your grounds with 10 gauge wire directly to the battery.
add the capacitor, this filters the power for the cpu and whole sled.
replace the existing 30 amp fuse holder with a good non melted one.
add a second 10 gauge wire from the battery + to the fuse block also with a 30 amp fuse.
add 10 gauge wire from regulator output to battery +.
use a good fuel pump on a relay.
solder and heatshrink all your connections, DO NOT use automotive crimp on connectors.
I forgot to mention that your gauges will be a lot brighter as well as your headlights and the electric visor will have proper voltage.
tom

[Formula one]

I dont come on here much but i figured people might like to know how to get there mach to actually run. My 05 has been a disaster since I bought it, all sorts of electrical glitches, the sled did not pay any attention to the intake air sensor, was always running in open loop limp home mode. Exhaust valves would sometimes work etc. What I found is basically bad electrical design procedures from doo. The grounds on the sled consist of analog and digital. the wires are way too small and are designed for fast assembly not proper grounds. All the grounds run through a connector on the voltage regulator then go to a lug that attaches to one of the regulator bolts. This ground then finds it's way to the battery and engine through the chassis (crapola) . This connector is too small, it melts causing a ground potential rise. the computer ground is also a very small wire attached to the chassis just under the steering. this has to cary all the current for 2 fuel pumps, ignition, valves, the cpu and gauges. this is just wrong. Also the electric fuel pump under the motor is of a poor design it is a very high current pulse pump that causes elecrical noise and interferes with the ignition and map sensor. You must Replace this pump with a rotary vane pump, carter makes a very nice one for under a hundred bucks. To repair the grounds remove the Gauge cluster, open the wiring harness on the top, you will find a bunch of black wires all connected in the harness. open the splice and solder a 10 gauge wire to this ground splice, and run it to the battery, also run it to the front of the sled to just behind the fuse box. this is where doo puts a capacitor on the non electric start models. connect to this capacitor ground as well. You cant have enough good grounds connected to this sled.
Next is the power, also a disaster, the power comes from the regulator also through a small connector that melts. I measured 9.6 volts on the power connector that doo supplies for the heated visor.... it should be 13.5 or so. run another 10 gauge power wire from the battery to the fuse panel and + of the capacitor, put another 30 amp fuse in it. also directly wire the regulator +12 output directly to the battery with 10 gauge wire bypassing the small connector. I then install a giant capacitor 68,000 uf @ 25 volts. I have a bunch of these caps if people want one I need 35 bucks for one including shipping. I installed a relay to power the external fuel pump, doo just tagged it to the tank pump and it is enabled by the cpu applying ground to it. this is just crap, it causes all sorts of noises and glitches. put in a relay for the extra pump and let your cpu and all the sensors have nice quiet ground. When i rode the sled last winter after fixing all the wiring crap it idled perfectly at 1200 rpm had amazing throttle responce and went like hell. it has never run that well I bet doo stopped production of this sled because of all the glitches it had because of poor electrical engineering. I suspect the 600 sdi sleds have the same bad wiring design.
tom

What map are you running? Idle should be at 2K.

[tom warga]

What map are you running? Idle should be at 2K.

I have put this repair on to 3 sleds so far, the idle smooths out drops from 2k to 1200 High erratic idle seems to be an indication of this problem.
tom

[stevem5215]

Hey Tom ! Glad to see you posted some of your info on here.
I'll vouch for him. He's one of the best I've seen for tech info straight scoop. How's the 670 Turbo running ? lol Still have it ?

Steve from the West ride list.

I have put this repair on to 3 sleds so far, the idle smooths out drops from 2k to 1200 High erratic idle seems to be an indication of this problem.
tom

[JJJR]

I have put this repair on to 3 sleds so far, the idle smooths out drops from 2k to 1200 High erratic idle seems to be an indication of this problem.
tom

DID YOU DOO A VOLTAGE DROP BEFORE & AFTER ? THANKS FOR THE IMFO GOOD THING TO CK JJR

[mach123]

Holy crap, that is crazy...Well more work now..HMMMMMM

[tom warga]

DID YOU DOO A VOLTAGE DROP BEFORE & AFTER ? THANKS FOR THE IMFO GOOD THING TO CK JJR

yes I did, I used a scope on the last sled, when the mosfets fire in the sputter pump the voltage would fold to 6.7 volts. this was the feed for the cpu. basically wires that were way to thin for the current (instantaneous) demands. a volt meter would not measure this unless you were using a fluke with record/ playback function. None of this is rocket science, just standard good design practices that doo did not follow. This is the kind of stuff I have done for a living for the last 30 years. Video noise, ground hum bar gremlins, setting up head ends and lots of ignition controller design for racing and other top secret rpm control stuff...
tom

[MachZrush]

I think I would have better luck learning mandarin chinese in about 20 minutes.

[tom warga]

yes I did, I used a scope on the last sled, when the mosfets fire in the sputter pump the voltage would fold to 6.7 volts. this was the feed for the cpu. basically wires that were way to thin for the current (instantaneous) demands. a volt meter would not measure this unless you were using a fluke with record/ playback function. None of this is rocket science, just standard good design practices that doo did not follow. This is the kind of stuff I have done for a living for the last 30 years. Video noise, ground hum bar gremlins, setting up head ends and lots of ignition controller design for racing and other top secret rpm control stuff...
tom

to explain better what is happening, the ground would rise in voltage and the + 12 would fall. I ended up reading a low of 6.7 volts that was fluctuating but this 6.7 volts was floating betweed ground and battery +. Again this is caused by both bad grounds and bad +12 supply. I never looked for fluctuating fuel pressure but the fuel pumps were not being fed clean power. the fuel pressure on my sled is rock steady and I attribute this to the pumps being fed proper clean power. Also my sled would not start on occasion with the electric starter. the sled would beep like it had a dead battery, this was because the cpu was seeing low voltage and would not enable the starter solenoid. Kinda hard to remember all the glitches on the old girl.
tom

[tom warga]

Hey Tom ! Glad to see you posted some of your info on here.
I'll vouch for him. He's one of the best I've seen for tech info straight scoop. How's the 670 Turbo running ? lol Still have it ?

Steve from the West ride list.

Hi Steve, thanks for the kind words. I sold the old 670 a few years back but i took the turbo kit off. it is sitting in a box waiting for a good deal on a 1200 4 stroke.
tom

[tom warga]

ALMOST FORGOT.
my mach would always foul plugs, 8's would come out black looking. after fixing up the electrical problems the plugs came out a perfect looking light tan. I switched to 9"s and they are perfect color. This sled never had good looking plugs right from the day I bought it.

[Formula one]

I have put this repair on to 3 sleds so far, the idle smooths out drops from 2k to 1200 High erratic idle seems to be an indication of this problem.
tom

Interesting reading, Thanks for sharing your info.