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Intercooler on N/A sled


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#1 kanedog

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 04:49 PM

Has anyone done this or heard of this?

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#2 bnorth

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 05:25 PM

Would take a lot to overcome the restriction of breathing through the intercooler. We ride these things in the winter just stick an intake out the hood. 


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#3 lurker

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 09:20 PM

the basic physical properties of a gas (like air) state that as it is compressed, the temperature goes up. the intercooler helps the compressed air after the turbo raises the pressure shed the resultant heat. a NA engine doesn't have its intake air heated by compression so all you'd get from an intercooler would be a restriction in airflow and add some weight. The only way an intercooler could do anything on a NA engine is if it was super-cooled with chunks of dry ice or something.



#4 Daag44

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 03:24 AM

I think it is a great idea. If it creates any restriction than that could be easily measured through Air Flow Testing. Bnorth made a good point that intake air from a snorkel would ensure fresh cool air which is difficult to beat. Many Summit owners have taken the APS out of the equation for a number of years, which could be a problem for power?



#5 freeride600

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 12:43 PM

The sole purpose for an intercooler is to offset the air temp increase via the turbo. As Lurker pointed out, compressed gas heats up, so... cool it back down before feeding the engine. Also in boosted cases, you have 5+ lbs of pressure pushing air through the intercooler.

 

So, for a N/A setup... you can run a snorkle and pull cold air. It's not gonna heat up (past a negligible amount), and you would be hard pressed to cool it down past ambient temps. If you could come up with an intercooler setup that didn't have an impact on flow (eg restriction), you would have some serious volume, and hence weight. Intercoolers aren't light. But say you were able to get it set up, and add an alcohol spray to further drop IATs... it might be fun. I doubt it would make a huge difference (even in boosted applications, intercoolers only really start playing at higher boost).

 

I say try it.  :ph34r_old:


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#6 kanedog

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 11:40 PM

Great points of view. I was thinking cooler air for warm spring days as I notice a big difference in power when the air temp drops later in the day in May.

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#7 lurker

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Posted 18 June 2017 - 09:59 AM

Great points of view. I was thinking cooler air for warm spring days as I notice a big difference in power when the air temp drops later in the day in May.

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a snowmobile intercooler is not a magic box that cools air going through it. It is an air to air heat exchanger. It brings the air that passes through it to a temperature closer to the ambient temperature. that is helpful if the air inside of it is much hotter than the air outside. The greater the temperature difference, the greater the heat exchange that can take place. It can never cool air below ambient temperature. How can you use air to cool other air that is the same temperature?


Edited by lurker, 18 June 2017 - 01:41 PM.

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#8 kanedog

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Posted 18 June 2017 - 01:53 PM

A snow to air type is what I was thinking. Spring air temps are 45-65 F but for the weight gain, time, expense and unproven I don't think this idea is a winner. Back to the drawing board.

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#9 Daag44

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Posted 18 June 2017 - 07:36 PM

Fun subject to think about. While there is no advantage with an Air-To-Air and more likely a disadvantage, the Water-To-Air would be only as good as the cooler temperature of the snow less the rise in temperature of the fuel in the tank from above the heat exchanger that gets heated by the ECM and flows through the hot injectors and lines located within the confines of a hot engine bay. Since fuels on an ETEC is used as a coolant agent, it is reasonable to assume the fuel will be hotter than the snow cooling the heat exchanger - the one that feeds the intercooler. How much of an effect the cooler snow and hotter fuel would have, I have no idea and could not even begin to hazard a guess.

 

The biggest problem to overcome that I see is any reduced airflow through the airbox, but it doesn't mean that it would be much. Just an off the cuff example, a gain in air density from a 5 deg drop in air temperature could be easily outweighed by a 5% drop in airflow. To get an idea one could use a Shop Vac to draw air out from or push air into an airbox with intercooler while spraying cool water across the heat exchanger and monitoring the Air Temp Sensor. I wouldn't bet on any signification decrease in temps, but again I have no idea.

 

I have heard claims of significant drops in air temps on turbos using Water-To-Air, but no tangible side by side tests were made public. Some results were inferred, but that was about it. The only Aftermarket product tests that I have ever found complete and shared openly was from Amsoil for their 2S oil test with a straight comparison to BRP's XPS Synthetic. Oil recipes change over the years, so it was only a snap shop comparison in 2011, yet one of the rare ones I have ever seen that was as good as it gets on a dyno. Edit: I should mention that it was used for a court of law.

 

My motto is that it's best to test than to guess :)

 

It was a very good idea to bring this up in my opinion. The benefits of a subject is rarely ever with the evaluation of the initial idea, but rather what comes of it. There is always an advantage to be found.


Edited by Daag44, 18 June 2017 - 07:39 PM.


#10 bri113

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 01:54 PM

Why in the world would you need it on a Naturally aspirated sled?!?!   :shrug


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#11 IcutMetl

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 03:00 PM

Sounds like a solution to a non existent problem.

#12 Trippy

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 03:33 PM

Mountain sleds are designed with smaller coolers for a reason..... because they should be in snow.

I understand the thinking outside the box idea, but wonder why it would be needed




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