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2007 Mach Z Engine Chatter


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#1 Bigboy69

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Posted 09 January 2017 - 09:18 PM

I'm gonna go and look at this sled tommorow. Back story is the guy bought it used from a dealership in 2008 with 150miles. At 1800 miles (2 years ago) the crank went. He had a shop do the rebuild. 400 miles on it last year. Then this year he starts it and it has the chatter/slappy noise in the video. He said he's never done any upgrades or other stuff to it, just routine maintenance.

I guess they didn't use OEM parts for the rebuild. He thought they used wesico pistons. I've heard and read bad things about these pistons in these sleds especially.

Any thoughts of what this noise may be and anything else I need to look at?

The link to the video is below
https://drive.google...M2phTVF4MC11VWc

Thanks in advance!


Edited by Bigboy69, 10 January 2017 - 11:55 AM.

1995 STX LT 583
2007 Mach Z Adrenaline

#2 Daag44

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Posted 09 January 2017 - 09:56 PM

Add a bit of Isoflex to each counterbalance gear cavity. If the noise subsides remove the lower half for an inspection. Then reassemble with Isoflex NB5051.



#3 Daag44

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Posted 09 January 2017 - 10:43 PM

- Does the chatter subside after warm-up?

 

- Eliminate the clutch as a possibility by running only primary fixed sheave.

 

- Use an engine stethoscope to locate the noise.

 

 

400 miles on it last year with whatever pistons sounds like success to me. The first few hundred miles after a rebuild are the most precarious ones. If there is something that doesn't sound right, don't be afraid to investigate as far as you need to.



#4 red85k100rs

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 06:18 AM

- Does the chatter subside after warm-up?

 

- Eliminate the clutch as a possibility by running only primary fixed sheave.

 

- Use an engine stethoscope to locate the noise.

 

 

I have an engine stethoscope but I like using a piece of 1/2 rubber hose, the length of your arm. One end to your ear, move it around and you don't hear all the other noises nearby.


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#5 Bigboy69

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 06:55 AM

Add a bit of Isoflex to each counterbalance gear cavity. If the noise subsides remove the lower half for an inspection. Then reassemble with Isoflex NB5051.


Is this an easy step? I ordered the shop manual this morning
1995 STX LT 583
2007 Mach Z Adrenaline

#6 Bigboy69

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 06:56 AM

- Does the chatter subside after warm-up?
 
- Eliminate the clutch as a possibility by running only primary fixed sheave.
 
- Use an engine stethoscope to locate the noise.
 
 
400 miles on it last year with whatever pistons sounds like success to me. The first few hundred miles after a rebuild are the most precarious ones. If there is something that doesn't sound right, don't be afraid to investigate as far as you need to.


Should the noise lessen as it gets warm? How warm is warmed up, heads warm to the touch?
1995 STX LT 583
2007 Mach Z Adrenaline

#7 Daag44

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 10:11 AM

Is this an easy step? I ordered the shop manual this morning

 

It is one possibility. The easy step would be to warm-up the engine until the temp needle starts moving in hope to eliminate the piston slap. If there is no change you can stop the engine for a few minutes to let the engine heat soak and try again. Or you can ride it until engine is at temp and see if there is a difference. There are many ways to go about it. Use a simple tube like red85k100rs suggested as a stethoscope. You can also install only the clutch fixed sheave to eliminate the clutch as a possibility.

 

In the mean time you can download the Shop Manual file Ski-Doo2005.zip from the following link

 

http://www.trailz.net/pub/

 



#8 Daag44

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 10:13 AM

You can also follow Robw22's experience.

 

http://www.dootalk.c...ats-that-noise/



#9 Bigboy69

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 12:15 PM

The Good!

Went and looked at the sled, its spotless, 2,200 miles, the guy had his receipts with parts from the rebuild he had done. He gave me a better description of his time with the sled. he bought it in 2008 from a dealership with 150 miles. it blew the top end, he repaired it himself with oem parts. then a short time later the crank went (2 years ago at 1800miles) he had a shop do repairs. they used oem crank but the wiseco pistons. he drove it 400 miles that year (2 years ago). then it sat on the trailer last year (never rode it) and then this year he started it and it was making the noise. you can barely notice the noise with the panels shut so i can see it not being noticed for a short time. 

 

The Bad, the noise didn't seem to get quieter when it warmed up. i could have but i could have been imagining it getting quieter, because i wanted it to. 

 

Either way i'm grabbing it Friday morning, then the fun will start!!! Lots of reading and plenty of confusion!!


Edited by Bigboy69, 10 January 2017 - 12:22 PM.

1995 STX LT 583
2007 Mach Z Adrenaline

#10 Daag44

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 10:02 PM

Doh, I just realized that you don't own it yet lol  I had read that you were going to go look at your sled tomorrow and then you provided us the history of the sled lol  Ok, wow, where to begin? If it were mine it would be an easy decision. I would invest the time and money to ensure it was well built and running right, then have complete confidence. Not expensive considering the alternative. Starting with a running sled and a crank that never suffered a top-end failure is priceless. The Wiseco pistons would be my only head scratcher. I might risk it depending on the clearance, but the engine would be fueled and timed like it came out of the factory assembly line until I grew enough confidence that it wasn't about to seize lol  I also don't ride much where it gets extremely hot, so right there I would have the risks minimized. It would be a fun project.



#11 CrazyBill

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 10:52 PM

I heard a similar noise on an 800ho. Ended up being the primary clutch internals. Good luck and welcome to the club. Er, I mean cult. Only crazy people would want these sleds lol

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#12 Bigboy69

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 11:02 PM

I'll get it home Friday and start trouble shooting. I'm gonna pop the clutch off and see if it's still makes the same noise. Then get the stethoscope out. My buddy has a bore scope maybe I can see something before I start tearing apart.
1995 STX LT 583
2007 Mach Z Adrenaline

#13 Bigboy69

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 11:04 PM

If I did find it to be a top end issue with the piston, has anyone use TPI pistons. Brother has used them in his sleds when he's lost the top end. Or is OEM the only way to go?
1995 STX LT 583
2007 Mach Z Adrenaline

#14 Daag44

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 12:17 AM

Forget TPI pistons. OEM or forged with enough clearance.

 

Glad to see that you plan on taking the time to troubleshoot before a teardown. Please add an engine leak test to the list. Please? lol This will tell you what you need to focus on during the assembly. There are a few areas to look at such as the counterbalance caps, base gasket near the intakes, air leaking into the cooling system from the base and head, the y-pipe, reed boots, and perhaps a few more that will eventually come to mind. Just get the parts from the hardware store and auto parts store ready for the test :)



#15 Daag44

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 12:31 AM

I may have found someone in Maine who understands the MachZ very well and is only 2:12 min away. I only know this guy from the open forum, and one of his buddies is also on DooTalk which I have learned much from him too. I won't mention handle names, but they both follow the forum close enough to know who I am referring to.

 

Edit: It could really help with the assembly and the nuances, or as you call confusion lol


Edited by Daag44, 11 January 2017 - 12:32 AM.





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