Any additional suggestions are definately welcome! Just PM and I can add to the thread.
Many pics were bootlegged from this site or stud web sites. Hope no one minds, it is for the good of the fellow doo rider!
Full Version: General info on Studding a REV.
DOOTalk Forums > Ski-Doo Snowmobiles > REV Chassis - Performance and Trail Models > MXZ REV Chassis FAQs > How To's
Hopefully this thread can limit the number of studding threads in the future.
Any additional suggestions are definately welcome! Just PM and I can add to the thread.
Many pics were bootlegged from this site or stud web sites. Hope no one minds, it is for the good of the fellow doo rider!
Any additional suggestions are definately welcome! Just PM and I can add to the thread.
Many pics were bootlegged from this site or stud web sites. Hope no one minds, it is for the good of the fellow doo rider!
STUDDING A REV
1) Studs (usually get nylon locknuts with studs/don't use Lock tite with nylon locknuts, I have heard it eats the nylon).
2) Backers.
3) One set of Tunnel Protectors.
4) Bulk Head Protectors on 2003 with 1.25" lug track REVs.
http://www.woodystraction.com/images/techn...ps/2/m1019h.pdf
5) 4 Stainless Steel bolts, washers, nuts with nylon locks (hardware for mud flap).
6) Track Paint Marker
7) Track stud template.
8) Special rubber type Track Drill
First stud for safety and then stud for performance. After you have one accident or even a really close call. You will understand what I am talking about. It could be around a corner, just over the hill, it could have been someone else pulling out in front of you or just stopping to fast for you, a downed tree or a dead sled sitting in the trail, SAFETY FIRST!
The more studs you put in the track, the harder the sled will turn or the more the skis will Push in the corners if the setup is not balanced with more ski steering carbides. (Push is when your sled wants to go straight in the corners). The more studs and ski carbides, the more steering effort it will take to steer your sled, especially at slower speeds. Too many studs, also increases your rotating mass and can rob your sled of hp. But too few studs and then you run the risk of an accident or higher risk to catch and bend or rip out the stud/backer plates and possibly destroy your track.
Most Liquid cooled REVs come stock with 1 inch track lugs and 1.075" studs are usually recommended per stud suppliers. 1.075" is actually the height of the stud after it is through the lug side of the track. This 1.485 overall length stud will have a penetrating range of .22-.33".
Trail riders should use a stud that penetrates from 1/4" - 3/8". No more than 3/8"(.375") taller than the tallest part of your track and that .25" penetration is best for stopping.
A good pictorial/description of how to measure stud length and which stud length to use with which lug height is here:
http://woodys.mindscapecreative.com/conten...cation_Tips.pdf
A minimum of ¾ " tall Tunnel Protectors are required or studs will eat through your heat exchangers in your tunnel. Who wants a burned up motor out in the woods after your coolant fluid runs out, so get the protectors required. I know someone who actually cut through their tunnel & into their gas tank on a different brand because they didn’t know what the protectors were and had to be replaced. Luckily there was not a fire, just lots of gas on the sled and ground.
1.25" track lugs usually recommend 1.325" studs (1.73" overall length stud with a penetrating range of .32-.35"). This is what I have on my 1.25" lug Ripsaw track. I also used 1" tunnel protectors with the longer 1.325" studs to be safe.
I have read in a recent post to put in Bulk Head Protectors (p/n 518324071) in as well with the 1.25" lug tracks. Something I didn't do on my 04 with 3,000miles, guess I better check out and see if I have any problems.
Pic of Bulk Head Protector, just in front of Tunnel Protectors:
http://www.dootalk.net/gallery/albums/albu...s_518324071.jpg
The shorter track "Lugs" don't bend easily since they are so thick. The longer track lugs usually bend on hard ice and you end up with more of the studs penetrating. (The longer the track lugs, the thinner the lugs get and the easier they bend so the stud can stick out further)
TUNNEL PROTECTORS ARE NOT AN OPTION, THEY ARE REQUIRED & Bulk Head Protectors may be required, depending on model year and stud length.
The first model year that the REV sleds came out in 2003, I am told that ski-doo did not design enough clearance between the front drive shaft/track and the bulk-head. So the 2003 REV with 1.25" lugs also require a bulk-head protector, which is similar to the required tunnel protectors of all REV models and I hear that they are not fun to put on.
If it looks like you have enough room when you look under your sled, remember that when you hit your brakes hard (stopping your front track drives), your track will bunch up top and in front top from momentum making it looser in those areas and getting closer to your tunnel/bulk head with the studs.
Stud Holes have to be cut in the track with a special track drill to leave a nice clean hole in a pattern that does not interfere with drive lugs and wheels. The faster you drill, the hotter you get the drill, the better it seems to cut. So I marked my entire track and checked the marked areas to make sure my backers didn't crash into anything before I started drilling.
You don't want to put studs in line with each other from lug to lug. You want to stagger the studs to get as many traction lines (scratch line patterns) as possible. Lining up studs makes them run in the traction groove of the stud in front of it and you are more likely to spin the track. Too many studs in a row also means that
you cut the track cord in too many places close to each other, which could weaken the track.
Pic of an example of Traction or Scratch Lines:
Stud backers are made of different materials and shapes. Heaviest is steel, then aluminum and then plastic. I have read that for maximum side support, there are twin plates (double backers) that mount two studs in a longer plate. I have also read that angled backer plates are suppose to support them in the drive direction better as well.
There are 48 Ribs or track lugs on a 121" track.
96 pattern is 2 studs per lug on 121 track & 108 on 136" track.
120 is repeating 2/3 pattern.
144 is 3 studs per lug.
54 lugs on the 136" Renegade track.
108 should be a minimum on a 600 Renegade.
A good rule of thumb is 1 stud per 1 hp for a 121" track. Use at least 2 studs per rib for a Trail riding machine. 500SS, 600HO, 600SDI sleds should all have a minimum of 96 studs and 800 should have a minimum of 144. When you modify the sled for higher hp, you will want to increase the number of studs accordingly.
Very, very aggressive riders with built 800cc utilize 192 studs. If you do this, load the studs up the center and only use every other lug on the outside. This makes the sled easier to turn on the trail. Also move the outside studs closer to the slide rail (no closer than an inch though), as this prevents the studs from bending out and possibly tearing the track.
Bergstroms web site has this info: Alternating inside and outside provides a good combination of cornering traction (outside) for turns and acceleration/braking traction (inside), while keeping the points near the suspension for top dig.
Also this: Select the stud design and shank size (7mm or 5/16"), taking into consideration your riding style. The 7mm studs are smaller in diameter at both the head and shank, therefore lighter... These studs can be used on snowmobiles with a horsepower rating of 100 or less. The 5/16" studs have a larger head and shank... Sleds over 100 horsepower (600cc range) and performance riding are good benchmarks for a decision to use 5/16" studs.
5/16" is larger in diameter and thus stronger than 7mm diameter studs, I personally prefer the 5/16" studs because I do not want to bend or break studs and have to deal with replacing them.
In a recent snowmobile magazine, they talked to the people from fast tracks, who are stud pros and they said NEVER STUD DOWN THE VERY CENTER OF THE TRACK because this is a flex area! Then the center stud can possibly hit your shocks in this flex area. I am attaching a pic of this for reference.
The center area of the track can flex up, thus the studs closer to the rails will get more support and then get the most bite since the rails hold them down.
Watch your track for stretching/sagging for the first couple hundred miles or so. The track will probably stretch a little and you don't want it to contact anything. If it stretches too much, you can ratchet your track. Ratcheting, you could possibly destroy or rip off the rubber track gear drive bumps that the front drives grab to power your track. (Ratcheting is when your track is so loose that the front drive spins inside of your track) You will have to tighten your track if it is ratcheting.
The front driveshaft extrovert drivers (extrovert drive gears have additional teeth that go into the track clip windows) are nice for being able to run a looser track.
If you changed tracks or removed the track for some reason, tighten your chain in your chain case by HAND. Tighten by hand and then back up until you can line up your cottar pin. You do not want to over tighten by using a wrench, using a wrench will cause excessive wear and bearing failures. Read up on tightening your chain in your owners manual.
Reference changing track info and pics: http://www.dootalk.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=23770
To change your tunnel protectors, you will have to remove your mud flap by drilling out the 4 rivets. When the mud flap is removed, it is a good time to work on installing your studs. Just make sure you don't drill anything except the track (boggies, etc). At the rear of the stock protectors, bend the aluminum flanges open on both sides at the back of the protectors. Pull the protectors out of the tunnel through the open windows in the frame (mark the location on each side of the protectors with a marker for a cutting line). Then to install the new taller tunnel protectors, you have to actually cut the tunnel above the windows up to install the new protectors where you marked with a marker. Some people just remove this area like in the picture, I just cut up on both sides, bent it up in between my cuts. I just slide my new protectors in. If you have a used sled, you may need to add a lubricant on the slides to get it to slide into the tunnel flange slots easier. When finished, I just bent it back down before installing the mud flap. After studding is complete, re-install your mud flap with stainless steel bolts, washers, and lock nuts. The first time I did mine, I riveted, they ripped out and I lost it on the trail. Luckily, I was followed by someone else who found it and grabbed it for me.
This pic shows the window cut out on the top side where the protector needs to come out.
Snowmobile requirements and recommendations vary and stud manufacturers vary stud lengths. So do your homework on which stud and protectors you actually need, what quantity and location and more info on how to install them, torque info. Do a Dootalk SEARCH. Lots of info.
Here is a step by step guide http://www.off-road.com/snowmobile/info/ho...iperwoodys.html that you can learn from and follow that I found on another site.
Web sites will let you know.
Woodys is at:
http://www.wiem.com/installation_instructions.aspx
Stud Boy is at http://www.studboytraction.com/
Saber Traction is at http://www.sabertraction.com/
Bergstrom info is at http://www.bergstromskegs.com/tg/stud_inst...ion_history.htm
Ride Safe!
1) Studs (usually get nylon locknuts with studs/don't use Lock tite with nylon locknuts, I have heard it eats the nylon).
2) Backers.
3) One set of Tunnel Protectors.
4) Bulk Head Protectors on 2003 with 1.25" lug track REVs.
http://www.woodystraction.com/images/techn...ps/2/m1019h.pdf
5) 4 Stainless Steel bolts, washers, nuts with nylon locks (hardware for mud flap).
6) Track Paint Marker
7) Track stud template.
8) Special rubber type Track Drill
First stud for safety and then stud for performance. After you have one accident or even a really close call. You will understand what I am talking about. It could be around a corner, just over the hill, it could have been someone else pulling out in front of you or just stopping to fast for you, a downed tree or a dead sled sitting in the trail, SAFETY FIRST!
The more studs you put in the track, the harder the sled will turn or the more the skis will Push in the corners if the setup is not balanced with more ski steering carbides. (Push is when your sled wants to go straight in the corners). The more studs and ski carbides, the more steering effort it will take to steer your sled, especially at slower speeds. Too many studs, also increases your rotating mass and can rob your sled of hp. But too few studs and then you run the risk of an accident or higher risk to catch and bend or rip out the stud/backer plates and possibly destroy your track.
Most Liquid cooled REVs come stock with 1 inch track lugs and 1.075" studs are usually recommended per stud suppliers. 1.075" is actually the height of the stud after it is through the lug side of the track. This 1.485 overall length stud will have a penetrating range of .22-.33".
Trail riders should use a stud that penetrates from 1/4" - 3/8". No more than 3/8"(.375") taller than the tallest part of your track and that .25" penetration is best for stopping.
A good pictorial/description of how to measure stud length and which stud length to use with which lug height is here:
http://woodys.mindscapecreative.com/conten...cation_Tips.pdf
A minimum of ¾ " tall Tunnel Protectors are required or studs will eat through your heat exchangers in your tunnel. Who wants a burned up motor out in the woods after your coolant fluid runs out, so get the protectors required. I know someone who actually cut through their tunnel & into their gas tank on a different brand because they didn’t know what the protectors were and had to be replaced. Luckily there was not a fire, just lots of gas on the sled and ground.
1.25" track lugs usually recommend 1.325" studs (1.73" overall length stud with a penetrating range of .32-.35"). This is what I have on my 1.25" lug Ripsaw track. I also used 1" tunnel protectors with the longer 1.325" studs to be safe.
I have read in a recent post to put in Bulk Head Protectors (p/n 518324071) in as well with the 1.25" lug tracks. Something I didn't do on my 04 with 3,000miles, guess I better check out and see if I have any problems.
Pic of Bulk Head Protector, just in front of Tunnel Protectors:
http://www.dootalk.net/gallery/albums/albu...s_518324071.jpg
The shorter track "Lugs" don't bend easily since they are so thick. The longer track lugs usually bend on hard ice and you end up with more of the studs penetrating. (The longer the track lugs, the thinner the lugs get and the easier they bend so the stud can stick out further)
TUNNEL PROTECTORS ARE NOT AN OPTION, THEY ARE REQUIRED & Bulk Head Protectors may be required, depending on model year and stud length.
The first model year that the REV sleds came out in 2003, I am told that ski-doo did not design enough clearance between the front drive shaft/track and the bulk-head. So the 2003 REV with 1.25" lugs also require a bulk-head protector, which is similar to the required tunnel protectors of all REV models and I hear that they are not fun to put on.
If it looks like you have enough room when you look under your sled, remember that when you hit your brakes hard (stopping your front track drives), your track will bunch up top and in front top from momentum making it looser in those areas and getting closer to your tunnel/bulk head with the studs.
Stud Holes have to be cut in the track with a special track drill to leave a nice clean hole in a pattern that does not interfere with drive lugs and wheels. The faster you drill, the hotter you get the drill, the better it seems to cut. So I marked my entire track and checked the marked areas to make sure my backers didn't crash into anything before I started drilling.
You don't want to put studs in line with each other from lug to lug. You want to stagger the studs to get as many traction lines (scratch line patterns) as possible. Lining up studs makes them run in the traction groove of the stud in front of it and you are more likely to spin the track. Too many studs in a row also means that
you cut the track cord in too many places close to each other, which could weaken the track.
Pic of an example of Traction or Scratch Lines:
Stud backers are made of different materials and shapes. Heaviest is steel, then aluminum and then plastic. I have read that for maximum side support, there are twin plates (double backers) that mount two studs in a longer plate. I have also read that angled backer plates are suppose to support them in the drive direction better as well.
There are 48 Ribs or track lugs on a 121" track.
96 pattern is 2 studs per lug on 121 track & 108 on 136" track.
120 is repeating 2/3 pattern.
144 is 3 studs per lug.
54 lugs on the 136" Renegade track.
108 should be a minimum on a 600 Renegade.
A good rule of thumb is 1 stud per 1 hp for a 121" track. Use at least 2 studs per rib for a Trail riding machine. 500SS, 600HO, 600SDI sleds should all have a minimum of 96 studs and 800 should have a minimum of 144. When you modify the sled for higher hp, you will want to increase the number of studs accordingly.
Very, very aggressive riders with built 800cc utilize 192 studs. If you do this, load the studs up the center and only use every other lug on the outside. This makes the sled easier to turn on the trail. Also move the outside studs closer to the slide rail (no closer than an inch though), as this prevents the studs from bending out and possibly tearing the track.
Bergstroms web site has this info: Alternating inside and outside provides a good combination of cornering traction (outside) for turns and acceleration/braking traction (inside), while keeping the points near the suspension for top dig.
Also this: Select the stud design and shank size (7mm or 5/16"), taking into consideration your riding style. The 7mm studs are smaller in diameter at both the head and shank, therefore lighter... These studs can be used on snowmobiles with a horsepower rating of 100 or less. The 5/16" studs have a larger head and shank... Sleds over 100 horsepower (600cc range) and performance riding are good benchmarks for a decision to use 5/16" studs.
5/16" is larger in diameter and thus stronger than 7mm diameter studs, I personally prefer the 5/16" studs because I do not want to bend or break studs and have to deal with replacing them.
In a recent snowmobile magazine, they talked to the people from fast tracks, who are stud pros and they said NEVER STUD DOWN THE VERY CENTER OF THE TRACK because this is a flex area! Then the center stud can possibly hit your shocks in this flex area. I am attaching a pic of this for reference.
The center area of the track can flex up, thus the studs closer to the rails will get more support and then get the most bite since the rails hold them down.
Watch your track for stretching/sagging for the first couple hundred miles or so. The track will probably stretch a little and you don't want it to contact anything. If it stretches too much, you can ratchet your track. Ratcheting, you could possibly destroy or rip off the rubber track gear drive bumps that the front drives grab to power your track. (Ratcheting is when your track is so loose that the front drive spins inside of your track) You will have to tighten your track if it is ratcheting.
The front driveshaft extrovert drivers (extrovert drive gears have additional teeth that go into the track clip windows) are nice for being able to run a looser track.
If you changed tracks or removed the track for some reason, tighten your chain in your chain case by HAND. Tighten by hand and then back up until you can line up your cottar pin. You do not want to over tighten by using a wrench, using a wrench will cause excessive wear and bearing failures. Read up on tightening your chain in your owners manual.
Reference changing track info and pics: http://www.dootalk.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=23770
To change your tunnel protectors, you will have to remove your mud flap by drilling out the 4 rivets. When the mud flap is removed, it is a good time to work on installing your studs. Just make sure you don't drill anything except the track (boggies, etc). At the rear of the stock protectors, bend the aluminum flanges open on both sides at the back of the protectors. Pull the protectors out of the tunnel through the open windows in the frame (mark the location on each side of the protectors with a marker for a cutting line). Then to install the new taller tunnel protectors, you have to actually cut the tunnel above the windows up to install the new protectors where you marked with a marker. Some people just remove this area like in the picture, I just cut up on both sides, bent it up in between my cuts. I just slide my new protectors in. If you have a used sled, you may need to add a lubricant on the slides to get it to slide into the tunnel flange slots easier. When finished, I just bent it back down before installing the mud flap. After studding is complete, re-install your mud flap with stainless steel bolts, washers, and lock nuts. The first time I did mine, I riveted, they ripped out and I lost it on the trail. Luckily, I was followed by someone else who found it and grabbed it for me.
This pic shows the window cut out on the top side where the protector needs to come out.
Snowmobile requirements and recommendations vary and stud manufacturers vary stud lengths. So do your homework on which stud and protectors you actually need, what quantity and location and more info on how to install them, torque info. Do a Dootalk SEARCH. Lots of info.
Here is a step by step guide http://www.off-road.com/snowmobile/info/ho...iperwoodys.html that you can learn from and follow that I found on another site.
Web sites will let you know.
Woodys is at:
http://www.wiem.com/installation_instructions.aspx
Stud Boy is at http://www.studboytraction.com/
Saber Traction is at http://www.sabertraction.com/
Bergstrom info is at http://www.bergstromskegs.com/tg/stud_inst...ion_history.htm
Ride Safe!
Pics of stud patterns for reference:
My 2004 500SS Adrenaline with 96 studs that are 1.325" Woody Gold Diggers with thicker plastic Snow Stuff Diamond Backers on a 1.25" lug Rip Saw track.
If you look at the stud patten. You can see I marked with a "Stud Template" and then drilled the holes slightly different between each pattern set. (In or out for each pattern set for more scratch lines) Just make sure you don't drill too close to each other and the backers run into each other. Also make sure you have enough room for the backers so that you are not to close to the slider windows.
No backer crashes/interferences!
Picture of my track just behind my Bulk Head area. This is where the 2003 REVs had problems with studs hitting, so Bulk Head Protectors are suggested when studding 1.25" tracks for 2003 REVs.
Pic of track and stud clearance to tunnel. Black plastic on left of pic is the replaced 1" Tunnel Protectors
My 2004 500SS Adrenaline with 96 studs that are 1.325" Woody Gold Diggers with thicker plastic Snow Stuff Diamond Backers on a 1.25" lug Rip Saw track.
If you look at the stud patten. You can see I marked with a "Stud Template" and then drilled the holes slightly different between each pattern set. (In or out for each pattern set for more scratch lines) Just make sure you don't drill too close to each other and the backers run into each other. Also make sure you have enough room for the backers so that you are not to close to the slider windows.
No backer crashes/interferences!
Picture of my track just behind my Bulk Head area. This is where the 2003 REVs had problems with studs hitting, so Bulk Head Protectors are suggested when studding 1.25" tracks for 2003 REVs.
Pic of track and stud clearance to tunnel. Black plastic on left of pic is the replaced 1" Tunnel Protectors
More Pics:
Double stud backers with 96 studs. (Woody Bran backers, believe to be Aluminum)
Another 96 Pattern:
A 144 pattern on a 1.25" Rip Saw. One wicked looking set up!
Another "Random" 144 pattern for more scratch lines:
Double stud backers with 96 studs. (Woody Bran backers, believe to be Aluminum)
Another 96 Pattern:
A 144 pattern on a 1.25" Rip Saw. One wicked looking set up!
Another "Random" 144 pattern for more scratch lines:
Extra general reference info I have cut & pasted about the 2003 sleds that could be useful. 03 sleds with 1.25" lug tracks need more bulk head clearance and will need bulk head protectors, I have never studded a 2003, but have read about it on this site because of all of the clearance issues:
Woody's has a bulletin on 03 REVs:
http://www.woodystraction.com/images/techn...ps/2/m1019h.pdf
Assume you have stock 9 lug drivers now on your 03. I believe the diameter of 8 lug drivers (2.52 pitch) is 6.20" vs 7.07" So you pick up about 0.435 " of clearance if you go to the 8 lug.. but you bend the track more.. and will have to gear up about 10%.
Go to the 04/06 or zx chain case.. and gain 5/8" clearance.. That's what several of us have done.. Not difficult to do.. there was an excellent pictorial on Dootalk of how to do it.. use 04 foot wells.. to replace the 03.. they drop the drive shaft hole down and back about 5/8". Lots of ZX chain cases available at a reasonable cost.. I am not a fan of 8 lug drivers..although they work..
put the zx chaincase in, it cost @ 100 bucks to do, takes about 4 hours. I have 10 t extros in mine w/ 1.325's smooth sailing. The speedo reads 90% of the speed with 10's thats all.
Woody's has a bulletin on 03 REVs:
http://www.woodystraction.com/images/techn...ps/2/m1019h.pdf
Assume you have stock 9 lug drivers now on your 03. I believe the diameter of 8 lug drivers (2.52 pitch) is 6.20" vs 7.07" So you pick up about 0.435 " of clearance if you go to the 8 lug.. but you bend the track more.. and will have to gear up about 10%.
Go to the 04/06 or zx chain case.. and gain 5/8" clearance.. That's what several of us have done.. Not difficult to do.. there was an excellent pictorial on Dootalk of how to do it.. use 04 foot wells.. to replace the 03.. they drop the drive shaft hole down and back about 5/8". Lots of ZX chain cases available at a reasonable cost.. I am not a fan of 8 lug drivers..although they work..
put the zx chaincase in, it cost @ 100 bucks to do, takes about 4 hours. I have 10 t extros in mine w/ 1.325's smooth sailing. The speedo reads 90% of the speed with 10's thats all.
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