I ran a single ply Cobra track on my Turbo Z1 last year and thought it was garbage. It needed to be fiddle string tight and still kept stretching over time. The minute I studded it, (running 152 single ply studs with large heads down the middle) it would ratchet unless it was super fiddle string tight.
From what I'm seeing it appears that the single ply track can't take high speed with studs in them due to cutting cords and ballooning and stretching. I could be wrong but it's what I experienced with the Cat. It has no extrovert drivers though either, just 2 double row internal drive wheels which from my past experience are prone to ratchet.
I'll also never use the large headed studs again either. The track didn't want to roll around drives and wheels which could have compounded the ratcheting on the Cat.
I was going to just install my 15" wide Iceripper XT under the Gade but I'm now wondering if I shouldn't just stud it conventionally with around 144-168 std studs. Just sucks to worry about throwing studs or a track again, but the gade has a 16" wide track so more cord or belting left intact when studding, course more weight also.
Anyone stud their Ski-Doo single ply turbo tracks last year have problems at all?
Full Version: Who out there has run the single ply track studded?
DOOTalk Forums > Ski-Doo Snowmobiles > REV-XR Chassis - 4 Stroke Performance and Trail Models > 4-TEC Turbo Talk
I had good luck with all double backers
with standard studs but with out a turbo
I ran 192 in my 137 1.25 track
with standard studs but with out a turbo
I ran 192 in my 137 1.25 track
I did 135 mphon my gade many time with 96 studs with that hole, no recurrent problem came. I had probably hitted something with that stud. I tried 144 studs, but I had dangerous vibration over 100mph, so I decreased to 96, and vibration stopped, but ratcheting still a pain.
What gearing where you running?
Single ply tracks are only good for ice rippers, not conventional studs Imho. All the lightweight advantage is lost when running the giant head studs needed to not pull thru and the balloon effect with the added weight. For what its worth, -10mph(indicated) 800r with 106 studs vs. no studs in the single ply ripsaw.
Hey Knapp Attack don't take a knap do you remember that!! Mike we have sold 6 tracks so far this season to guys using turbos on the 1200's and they are using the 1" - 2 ply 2.86" pitch ripsaw that Camo came out with, but they are 120" tracks, I am changing mine to the 1" - 2 ply as well and running 144 - 1.325" megs with every other bar doubles and then 3 singles. I was told that Camo was coming with the 137 - 2 ply but best would be to check with Bruce at Camo- Bill
Thanks Guys,
The large headed studs do kill speed. IMO I'd never use the large headed stud again. I think using two hole plates with a std. head would be just fine.
I have my 2.86" pitch 137 Iceripper I took off my Attak and was going to use that for added speed and peace of mind for throwing studs, but I just know I'm gonna come across my friends running studs in their boosted Yamahas. Thinking about studding the stock Renegade track with about 144-168.
The large headed studs do kill speed. IMO I'd never use the large headed stud again. I think using two hole plates with a std. head would be just fine.
I have my 2.86" pitch 137 Iceripper I took off my Attak and was going to use that for added speed and peace of mind for throwing studs, but I just know I'm gonna come across my friends running studs in their boosted Yamahas. Thinking about studding the stock Renegade track with about 144-168.
(((The large headed studs do kill speed.)))
Why is that?
Why is that?
The track can't roll around the drivers and wheels nicely. I put them in my Z1 turbo last year and it instantly ratcheted the track, even in the deep snow where the studs do nothing for traction. Had to run the track ridiculously tight. I like tight tracks for speed but it was extreme. Tells me the track didn't want to roll around the front drive nice.
The more studs you put in a track the more it robs speed too. The larger the head dia. robs even more speed. This can be seen on a track dyno or on timing lights. You only want to run enough studs to hook up. This is why hooker plates/studs welded to the clip were so popular in the speed run days. Even drag racing for that matter. I always ran 96 studs in the hooker and minimal studding in the belting, short studs too. I never pushed the legal limit on stud height.
The more studs you put in a track the more it robs speed too. The larger the head dia. robs even more speed. This can be seen on a track dyno or on timing lights. You only want to run enough studs to hook up. This is why hooker plates/studs welded to the clip were so popular in the speed run days. Even drag racing for that matter. I always ran 96 studs in the hooker and minimal studding in the belting, short studs too. I never pushed the legal limit on stud height.
10 4 Thank you Wounder if ice rippers would work at all?
jmo but with twins on the way all I can think of is that I am no longer "EXPENDABLE" Mike you have had the misfortune of throwing a track off at high speeds..not cool!....I hope to never encounter this issue. I have purchased the Avid 9 tooth 2.52 extro's and right now plan on using my stock drive shaft for speed running and roll it out of the hole for 60' or so with a 128x15x1 hacksaw, Tricked Toy's 10" rear wheels with 150+ Roetin hornets. not sure what I am going to leave on the table as far as mph but we will see. In the past 120-125mph in 1000' will generally put me on the podium at the end of the day and I think that is a VERY achievable goal with this set up.
Thoughts anyone?
Thoughts anyone?
QUOTE (SkiDoojunky @ Oct 14 2009, 06:40 PM) 
jmo but with twins on the way all I can think of is that I am no longer "EXPENDABLE" Mike you have had the misfortune of throwing a track off at high speeds..not cool!....I hope to never encounter this issue. I have purchased the Avid 9 tooth 2.52 extro's and right now plan on using my stock drive shaft for speed running and roll it out of the hole for 60' or so with a 128x15x1 hacksaw, Tricked Toy's 10" rear wheels with 150+ Roetin hornets. not sure what I am going to leave on the table as far as mph but we will see. In the past 120-125mph in 1000' will generally put me on the podium at the end of the day and I think that is a VERY achievable goal with this set up.
Thoughts anyone?
Thoughts anyone?
2.52 all the way, these single ply tracks balloon with the weight of the studs. A good multi ply track with conventional studs and more studs on the ground due to more pitches makes sense. Another way to do it is a drive axle from the race department that comes with 2.52 9 tooth drivers, all you have to do is transfer the bearing from your other axle and it is still cheaper complete than the avid drivers.
QUOTE (Jeb™ @ Oct 14 2009, 09:59 PM)
2.52 all the way, these single ply tracks balloon with the weight of the studs. A good multi ply track with conventional studs and more studs on the ground due to more pitches makes sense. Another way to do it is a drive axle from the race department that comes with 2.52 9 tooth drivers, all you have to do is transfer the bearing from your other axle and it is still cheaper complete than the avid drivers.
No way! Jeb do you have a pn: per the race manual? Are the drivers extros???
From what I've experienced in the past, single ply tracks do balloon more. Adding studs cuts the cords further weakening the track and more ballooning.
Extrovert drivers will be needed with boost whether it’s with a single or two ply track. Only Polaris and Cat with their torque link rear scissors could get by using four introvert drive wheels and boost, as this design tightens the track as it goes thru the travel. The Ski-Doos and Yamahas need extrovert sprockets due to the loosening of the track when the rear scissors squats in the back. I wouldn't try to run internal drivers with boost on either one of these brands. Fine for a stocker or a tied down rear drag/speed run suspension that doesn’t travel much, but no good for a full travel high HP boosted sled.
IMO extroverts are a MUST on a boosted XR1200. 2.52 Or 2.86 pitch doesn’t matter, but I don't think they make a 2.52 pitch extrovert for the doo shaft yet, I could be wrong on that.
I've run an 137" 2.86" single ply Iceripper XT sharp stud track on my stock 150 HP Attak and absolutely loved it for trail use. It is not a good drag track, race your buddies track, or good track for lake ice, but it is a great icy corner, trail track that will keep you in control. Don't have to worry about cutting cords and throwing studs into the heat exchangers or blowing a track from weakened belting with 10+ pounds of iron studs flying around stretching it to extremes. Another benefit of the Iceripper is a speed increase over a conventionally studded track. Iceripper vs. 144 studs in a YAMAHA ATTAK is 5 MPH on the top. Same on a RX-1, could be worth more in a XR1200 stocker maybe 6-7. Also no chance of vibration induced from studding, I've experienced this before too on the Yamahas. Some patterns are worse then others for vibration. Lots of plusses with the Iceripper. I think I may have just talked myself into just throwing the IceripperXT on my turbo XR, I can always add a few studs to the center band if I feel I need to. Or just race the guys on a groomed trail, not the lake ice.
Extrovert drivers will be needed with boost whether it’s with a single or two ply track. Only Polaris and Cat with their torque link rear scissors could get by using four introvert drive wheels and boost, as this design tightens the track as it goes thru the travel. The Ski-Doos and Yamahas need extrovert sprockets due to the loosening of the track when the rear scissors squats in the back. I wouldn't try to run internal drivers with boost on either one of these brands. Fine for a stocker or a tied down rear drag/speed run suspension that doesn’t travel much, but no good for a full travel high HP boosted sled.
IMO extroverts are a MUST on a boosted XR1200. 2.52 Or 2.86 pitch doesn’t matter, but I don't think they make a 2.52 pitch extrovert for the doo shaft yet, I could be wrong on that.
I've run an 137" 2.86" single ply Iceripper XT sharp stud track on my stock 150 HP Attak and absolutely loved it for trail use. It is not a good drag track, race your buddies track, or good track for lake ice, but it is a great icy corner, trail track that will keep you in control. Don't have to worry about cutting cords and throwing studs into the heat exchangers or blowing a track from weakened belting with 10+ pounds of iron studs flying around stretching it to extremes. Another benefit of the Iceripper is a speed increase over a conventionally studded track. Iceripper vs. 144 studs in a YAMAHA ATTAK is 5 MPH on the top. Same on a RX-1, could be worth more in a XR1200 stocker maybe 6-7. Also no chance of vibration induced from studding, I've experienced this before too on the Yamahas. Some patterns are worse then others for vibration. Lots of plusses with the Iceripper. I think I may have just talked myself into just throwing the IceripperXT on my turbo XR, I can always add a few studs to the center band if I feel I need to. Or just race the guys on a groomed trail, not the lake ice.
QUOTE (KnappAttack @ Oct 15 2009, 09:53 AM)
From what I've experienced in the past, single ply tracks do balloon more. Adding studs cuts the cords further weakening the track and more ballooning.
Extrovert drivers will be needed with boost whether it’s with a single or two ply track. Only Polaris and Cat with their torque link rear scissors could get by using four introvert drive wheels and boost, as this design tightens the track as it goes thru the travel. The Ski-Doos and Yamahas need extrovert sprockets due to the loosening of the track when the rear scissors squats in the back. I wouldn't try to run internal drivers with boost on either one of these brands. Fine for a stocker or a tied down rear drag/speed run suspension that doesn’t travel much, but no good for a full travel high HP boosted sled.
IMO extroverts are a MUST on a boosted XR1200. 2.52 Or 2.86 pitch doesn’t matter, but I don't think they make a 2.52 pitch extrovert for the doo shaft yet, I could be wrong on that.
I've run an 137" 2.86" single ply Iceripper XT sharp stud track on my stock 150 HP Attak and absolutely loved it for trail use. It is not a good drag track, race your buddies track, or good track for lake ice, but it is a great icy corner, trail track that will keep you in control. Don't have to worry about cutting cords and throwing studs into the heat exchangers or blowing a track from weakened belting with 10+ pounds of iron studs flying around stretching it to extremes. Another benefit of the Iceripper is a speed increase over a conventionally studded track. Iceripper vs. 144 studs in a YAMAHA ATTAK is 5 MPH on the top. Same on a RX-1, could be worth more in a XR1200 stocker maybe 6-7. Also no chance of vibration induced from studding, I've experienced this before too on the Yamahas. Some patterns are worse then others for vibration. Lots of plusses with the Iceripper. I think I may have just talked myself into just throwing the IceripperXT on my turbo XR, I can always add a few studs to the center band if I feel I need to. Or just race the guys on a groomed trail, not the lake ice.
Extrovert drivers will be needed with boost whether it’s with a single or two ply track. Only Polaris and Cat with their torque link rear scissors could get by using four introvert drive wheels and boost, as this design tightens the track as it goes thru the travel. The Ski-Doos and Yamahas need extrovert sprockets due to the loosening of the track when the rear scissors squats in the back. I wouldn't try to run internal drivers with boost on either one of these brands. Fine for a stocker or a tied down rear drag/speed run suspension that doesn’t travel much, but no good for a full travel high HP boosted sled.
IMO extroverts are a MUST on a boosted XR1200. 2.52 Or 2.86 pitch doesn’t matter, but I don't think they make a 2.52 pitch extrovert for the doo shaft yet, I could be wrong on that.
I've run an 137" 2.86" single ply Iceripper XT sharp stud track on my stock 150 HP Attak and absolutely loved it for trail use. It is not a good drag track, race your buddies track, or good track for lake ice, but it is a great icy corner, trail track that will keep you in control. Don't have to worry about cutting cords and throwing studs into the heat exchangers or blowing a track from weakened belting with 10+ pounds of iron studs flying around stretching it to extremes. Another benefit of the Iceripper is a speed increase over a conventionally studded track. Iceripper vs. 144 studs in a YAMAHA ATTAK is 5 MPH on the top. Same on a RX-1, could be worth more in a XR1200 stocker maybe 6-7. Also no chance of vibration induced from studding, I've experienced this before too on the Yamahas. Some patterns are worse then others for vibration. Lots of plusses with the Iceripper. I think I may have just talked myself into just throwing the IceripperXT on my turbo XR, I can always add a few studs to the center band if I feel I need to. Or just race the guys on a groomed trail, not the lake ice.
Mike, Avid make a 9 tooth 2.52 extro for the xp/xr shaft, I ordered a set last week, they are $135 each. I am working on getting a pn and pricing for the complete shaft/driver set up.
SDJ
Yes every thing you said is so true! On every boosted sled i have owned it needs a track every year! From blowing studs out or just the Ripsaw coming apart. Never found a track yet... So i think i will try the Iceripper too.
Skydog
Skydog
When we installed an RK860 kit in my 08 XP we installed a 1.3 cobra track with 2.52 avid drivers. Hooked up very well, and when stopped in powder would stand the front end straight up even when leaning forward.
QUOTE (SkiDoojunky @ Oct 15 2009, 08:46 AM)
No way! Jeb do you have a pn: per the race manual? Are the drivers extros???
Here is how it comes from the race dept.
The part number on the sprockets is 504 152 762. I do not know if that is the number for the complete axle or not, I got it from a cross country racer this spring.
QUOTE (KnappAttack @ Oct 15 2009, 09:53 AM)
From what I've experienced in the past, single ply tracks do balloon more. Adding studs cuts the cords further weakening the track and more ballooning.
Extrovert drivers will be needed with boost whether it’s with a single or two ply track. Only Polaris and Cat with their torque link rear scissors could get by using four introvert drive wheels and boost, as this design tightens the track as it goes thru the travel. The Ski-Doos and Yamahas need extrovert sprockets due to the loosening of the track when the rear scissors squats in the back. I wouldn't try to run internal drivers with boost on either one of these brands. Fine for a stocker or a tied down rear drag/speed run suspension that doesn’t travel much, but no good for a full travel high HP boosted sled.
IMO extroverts are a MUST on a boosted XR1200. 2.52 Or 2.86 pitch doesn’t matter, but I don't think they make a 2.52 pitch extrovert for the doo shaft yet, I could be wrong on that.
I've run an 137" 2.86" single ply Iceripper XT sharp stud track on my stock 150 HP Attak and absolutely loved it for trail use. It is not a good drag track, race your buddies track, or good track for lake ice, but it is a great icy corner, trail track that will keep you in control. Don't have to worry about cutting cords and throwing studs into the heat exchangers or blowing a track from weakened belting with 10+ pounds of iron studs flying around stretching it to extremes. Another benefit of the Iceripper is a speed increase over a conventionally studded track. Iceripper vs. 144 studs in a YAMAHA ATTAK is 5 MPH on the top. Same on a RX-1, could be worth more in a XR1200 stocker maybe 6-7. Also no chance of vibration induced from studding, I've experienced this before too on the Yamahas. Some patterns are worse then others for vibration. Lots of plusses with the Iceripper. I think I may have just talked myself into just throwing the IceripperXT on my turbo XR, I can always add a few studs to the center band if I feel I need to. Or just race the guys on a groomed trail, not the lake ice.
Extrovert drivers will be needed with boost whether it’s with a single or two ply track. Only Polaris and Cat with their torque link rear scissors could get by using four introvert drive wheels and boost, as this design tightens the track as it goes thru the travel. The Ski-Doos and Yamahas need extrovert sprockets due to the loosening of the track when the rear scissors squats in the back. I wouldn't try to run internal drivers with boost on either one of these brands. Fine for a stocker or a tied down rear drag/speed run suspension that doesn’t travel much, but no good for a full travel high HP boosted sled.
IMO extroverts are a MUST on a boosted XR1200. 2.52 Or 2.86 pitch doesn’t matter, but I don't think they make a 2.52 pitch extrovert for the doo shaft yet, I could be wrong on that.
I've run an 137" 2.86" single ply Iceripper XT sharp stud track on my stock 150 HP Attak and absolutely loved it for trail use. It is not a good drag track, race your buddies track, or good track for lake ice, but it is a great icy corner, trail track that will keep you in control. Don't have to worry about cutting cords and throwing studs into the heat exchangers or blowing a track from weakened belting with 10+ pounds of iron studs flying around stretching it to extremes. Another benefit of the Iceripper is a speed increase over a conventionally studded track. Iceripper vs. 144 studs in a YAMAHA ATTAK is 5 MPH on the top. Same on a RX-1, could be worth more in a XR1200 stocker maybe 6-7. Also no chance of vibration induced from studding, I've experienced this before too on the Yamahas. Some patterns are worse then others for vibration. Lots of plusses with the Iceripper. I think I may have just talked myself into just throwing the IceripperXT on my turbo XR, I can always add a few studs to the center band if I feel I need to. Or just race the guys on a groomed trail, not the lake ice.
Great info on this thread, Do you think there is any advantage to a 2.52 ice ripper vs. 2.86? more pitches and studs on the ground at the same time? Thanks for the review of the ripper on your attack.
I don't know if there would be any advantage or not. I'm sure it would depend on the conditions your running in, i.e. hardpack, looser snow ect. Otherwise, I would have to say only differences would be weight of track, 2.86" being lighter.
On another thread, Need for Speed 2 commented on running the single ply 2.86” Iceripper XT with added studding in his 400 HP turbo Yamaha and it was the best track he had run on that sled.
http://www.dootalk.com/forums/index.php?sh...15&start=15
On another thread, Need for Speed 2 commented on running the single ply 2.86” Iceripper XT with added studding in his 400 HP turbo Yamaha and it was the best track he had run on that sled.
http://www.dootalk.com/forums/index.php?sh...15&start=15
Thanks for the good info everyone, I just ordered a 1.375 ice attack.
I'm thinking of going to the Cobra 2ply 1.375" track with the avid 2.52 drivers. How many studs though? and which? there are so many choices, cant make my mind up.
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