i know about the one on olin rd. last name was tracey.
i also heard someone was hit by a car near highmarket and was killed, but can't find the news story.
report from someone riding up there yesterday said someone near flat rock hit a tree, and died.
and then a friend coming down from stillwater said they found a man 39 years old who hit something on the lake and was riding alone, someone found him dead there. has a wife, two kids, was with a group, staying at his uncles cabin but went out on the lake by himself and probably hit an ice shelf or maybe a stump. not sure.
can anyone confirm this? i hope that it's not true that 4 people died in one weekend there, or even one day.
i hate to be the one to say this but i think there needs to be a license to operate a sled. with extensive training, if you don't have it, you get fined and thrown off the trails. most people are good riders but there are too many people out there ruining it for everyone by riding too aggressively. i know that a license won't stop all deaths but training, especially young people, make them watch videos of what a DEAD rider looks like after hitting at tree or other sled and then that will maybe affect them enough to slow down on turns and intersections.
it's getting to the point where you have to wonder, what are my odds of being hurt by some idiot and is it worth it? it's supposed to be a fun sport, but when you stop and think that it's only a matter of time before you and someone else meet because they are on the wrong side of the trail, it makes it less fun to head out there.
i know on thurs and fri. on any blind corner, i was expecting to have a bail out plan off the sled because of the amount of traffic.
people need to be trained. i know that will be a PITA for most people but something has to be done because people shouldnt be dying doing something they enjoy so often.
Full Version: 4 deaths? in one weekend?
QUOTE (DanNJ @ Feb 22 2009, 01:44 PM) 
i know about the one on olin rd. last name was tracey. i also heard someone was hit by a car near highmarket and was killed, but can't find the news story. report from someone riding up there yesterday said someone near flat rock hit a tree, and died. and then a friend coming down from stillwater said they found a man 39 years old who hit something on the lake and was riding alone, someone found him dead there. has a wife, two kids, was with a group, staying at his uncles cabin but went out on the lake by himself and probably hit an ice shelf or maybe a stump. not sure. can anyone confirm this? i hope that it's not true that 4 people died in one weekend there, or even one day. i hate to be the one to say this but i think there needs to be a license to operate a sled. with extensive training, if you don't have it, you get fined and thrown off the trails. most people are good riders but there are too many people out there ruining it for everyone by riding too aggressively. i know that a license won't stop all deaths but training, especially young people, make them watch videos of what a DEAD rider looks like after hitting at tree or other sled and then that will maybe affect them enough to slow down on turns and intersections. it's getting to the point where you have to wonder, what are my odds of being hurt by some idiot and is it worth it? it's supposed to be a fun sport, but when you stop and think that it's only a matter of time before you and someone else meet because they are on the wrong side of the trail, it makes it less fun to head out there. i know on thurs and fri. on any blind corner, i was expecting to have a bail out plan off the sled because of the amount of traffic. people need to be trained. i know that will be a PITA for most people but something has to be done because people shouldnt be dying doing something they enjoy so often.
These are all places we ride and I hate hearing this stuff! Keep us posted...
i live just east of the hill and can leave from my house and be on the hill in minutes. i don't ride up there on the weekends any more because of the amount of traffic. now that there isn't snow in other places,the hill is packed with riders from other places.they don't know the hill like the locals do and sometimes ride faster than they should.the groomers do a great job trying to keep up the trails,but the shear volume of riders makes it nearly impossible to keep the trails in pristine shape.it's sad that these accidents happened but with increased volume odds are accidents are going to happen.the only way to prevent them is to slow down as conditions deteriate and use common sense.educate young riders and new ones to the sport that things can go wrong in a big hurry.always keep your options open when things do go wrong to lessen the severity,and be prepared to give first aid if the need arises.
QUOTE (mxzgsx @ Feb 22 2009, 04:25 PM)
i live just east of the hill and can leave from my house and be on the hill in minutes. i don't ride up there on the weekends any more because of the amount of traffic. now that there isn't snow in other places,the hill is packed with riders from other places.they don't know the hill like the locals do and sometimes ride faster than they should.the groomers do a great job trying to keep up the trails,but the shear volume of riders makes it nearly impossible to keep the trails in pristine shape.it's sad that these accidents happened but with increased volume odds are accidents are going to happen.the only way to prevent them is to slow down as conditions deteriate and use common sense.educate young riders and new ones to the sport that things can go wrong in a big hurry.always keep your options open when things do go wrong to lessen the severity,and be prepared to give first aid if the need arises.
this week end was the busiest weekend all year . this year tug hill was empty until these last two weekends.. i rode every weekend since christmas...i beleive it was a combination of high traffic and no grooming friday night ...i was out early on saturday and the groomers where not out friday night ..also with tug hill being the only place with snow it was back to higher than normal traffic ..most people where ejected because of hitting a mogul ..yes speed could be a factor ..but no one knows for sure ..and it`s pretty hard to be thrown from your sled on smooth groomed trails ..i beleive the groomers did a great job all year but dropped the ball friday night ....it just seems funny all these accidents and deaths happened on the day the trails were not groomed ..i think someone should keep a record to see if there is any connection between the two ..
i don't feel it is my place to criticize the clubs decision to groom or not to groom the trails or their scheduling for grooming.but friday night there were times of zero visibility with the lake effect.[at least at my house] i believe it was a question of whether or not it was safe to send the groomers out.with the number of riders the trails will deteriate in a matter of hours.personally i wish they could groom 24\7 all season,but that isn't realistic.
QUOTE (mxzgsx @ Feb 22 2009, 06:17 PM)
i don't feel it is my place to criticize the clubs decision to groom or not to groom the trails or their scheduling for grooming.but friday night there were times of zero visibility with the lake effect.[at least at my house] i believe it was a question of whether or not it was safe to send the groomers out.with the number of riders the trails will deteriate in a matter of hours.personally i wish they could groom 24\7 all season,but that isn't realistic.
I seem to recall a thread not too long ago ("Groomers on the wrong side?") where sledders were complaining, or asking why groomers would be "on the wrong side" of a trail... or when the trails are busy.... Seems our trail maintenance people just don't ever get a break! Grooming is all done by volunteers! These people deserve the upmost respect and admiration! They go out and work! Not for money, but for the love of the sport. Licensing and Laws cannot outlaw stupidity, irresponsibility, or carelessness. I have not heard anything yet on local news or radio (but if it is so, I'm sure we will hear a lot about it!)
Remember- STATE LAW REQUIRES snowmobilers to yield to the groomer, which, yes, especially on hills, may be going the "wrong way" bacause they have to in order to groom the most efficiently (many of the machines cannot pull a heavy groomer drag full of snow UP a hill, so they alternate sides and pull it downhill!)
I was out and did about 65 miles Saturday night, and was amazed at the number of groups of riders who, when approaching us out of narrow trails or turns did not even use hand signals!
Wake up, people.. speak up, people! If you see something, Say something! It's not just for terrorism and suspicious behavior in train stations or airports! If you have to, it is not hard to stop someone bevahing badly or erratic... Cross the trail, wave them down, or get their number, and report it!
We saw the one on olin rd then we went to old forge on sunday and saw another accident on trail 5 about 2-3 miles out from town. I have my 14 yr old son with me and he told my wife he was shook up over what he saw. Sad, but in a way thats good he see's what can happen. This is a very fun sport, but we all need to know our limits and ride below them because you never know whats going to happen.
QUOTE (DanNJ @ Feb 22 2009, 01:44 PM)
i know about the one on olin rd. last name was tracey.
i also heard someone was hit by a car near highmarket and was killed, but can't find the news story.
report from someone riding up there yesterday said someone near flat rock hit a tree, and died.
and then a friend coming down from stillwater said they found a man 39 years old who hit something on the lake and was riding alone, someone found him dead there. has a wife, two kids, was with a group, staying at his uncles cabin but went out on the lake by himself and probably hit an ice shelf or maybe a stump. not sure.
can anyone confirm this? i hope that it's not true that 4 people died in one weekend there, or even one day.
i hate to be the one to say this but i think there needs to be a license to operate a sled. with extensive training, if you don't have it, you get fined and thrown off the trails. most people are good riders but there are too many people out there ruining it for everyone by riding too aggressively. i know that a license won't stop all deaths but training, especially young people, make them watch videos of what a DEAD rider looks like after hitting at tree or other sled and then that will maybe affect them enough to slow down on turns and intersections.
it's getting to the point where you have to wonder, what are my odds of being hurt by some idiot and is it worth it? it's supposed to be a fun sport, but when you stop and think that it's only a matter of time before you and someone else meet because they are on the wrong side of the trail, it makes it less fun to head out there.
i know on thurs and fri. on any blind corner, i was expecting to have a bail out plan off the sled because of the amount of traffic.
people need to be trained. i know that will be a PITA for most people but something has to be done because people shouldnt be dying doing something they enjoy so often.
i also heard someone was hit by a car near highmarket and was killed, but can't find the news story.
report from someone riding up there yesterday said someone near flat rock hit a tree, and died.
and then a friend coming down from stillwater said they found a man 39 years old who hit something on the lake and was riding alone, someone found him dead there. has a wife, two kids, was with a group, staying at his uncles cabin but went out on the lake by himself and probably hit an ice shelf or maybe a stump. not sure.
can anyone confirm this? i hope that it's not true that 4 people died in one weekend there, or even one day.
i hate to be the one to say this but i think there needs to be a license to operate a sled. with extensive training, if you don't have it, you get fined and thrown off the trails. most people are good riders but there are too many people out there ruining it for everyone by riding too aggressively. i know that a license won't stop all deaths but training, especially young people, make them watch videos of what a DEAD rider looks like after hitting at tree or other sled and then that will maybe affect them enough to slow down on turns and intersections.
it's getting to the point where you have to wonder, what are my odds of being hurt by some idiot and is it worth it? it's supposed to be a fun sport, but when you stop and think that it's only a matter of time before you and someone else meet because they are on the wrong side of the trail, it makes it less fun to head out there.
i know on thurs and fri. on any blind corner, i was expecting to have a bail out plan off the sled because of the amount of traffic.
people need to be trained. i know that will be a PITA for most people but something has to be done because people shouldnt be dying doing something they enjoy so often.
I Agree On The License Part. Being That I'm 14, I Had To Take The Class. It Was Very Intense, 7 Hours Of Sitting. 1 Day. 1 Hour Break. And In The End, We Took A Test. I Happened To Get 50/50. The Only Person In The Class. But Maybe More Than That Is Needed..?
i was up that way on valentines day and there was a report of one... a woman was goin around a corner 2 fast n was thrown off her sled... and as she was getn up a guy came around the corner and ran right into her... i didnt hear much.. i just kno she was air lifted away n they both were facing tickets 4 speeding and unsafe ridin..
QUOTE (dozerman @ Feb 22 2009, 05:01 PM)
this week end was the busiest weekend all year . this year tug hill was empty until these last two weekends.. i rode every weekend since christmas...i beleive it was a combination of high traffic and no grooming friday night ...i was out early on saturday and the groomers where not out friday night ..also with tug hill being the only place with snow it was back to higher than normal traffic ..most people where ejected because of hitting a mogul ..yes speed could be a factor ..but no one knows for sure ..and it`s pretty hard to be thrown from your sled on smooth groomed trails ..i beleive the groomers did a great job all year but dropped the ball friday night ....it just seems funny all these accidents and deaths happened on the day the trails were not groomed ..i think someone should keep a record to see if there is any connection between the two ..
what is wrong with you putting blame on the groomers. it is the riders themselves
if the trails are not up to top notch at the time slow the dam thing down.
it shook me up when i heard about the one on ohlins as i had just came down that trail, my heart stopped, and now knowing he was only 2 years older than me really hits home.
we rode from lyons falls early friday morning, the trails were in great shape. the only ones that were bad were the ones near lyons falls where there wasn't enough snow to do anything with. we left friday afternoon because by then it was banged up. there had to have been some clubs out friday night but maybe it was a visibility thing. not sure. groomed trails are nice but the moguls aren't killing anyone, it's the rider trying to go too fast through them.
SLOW DOWN !!! People forget that 35 MPH or faster can be fatal on a snowmobile.
QUOTE
Two dead after fatal snowmobile accidents
Crashes in Lewis, Herkimer counties are fourth, fifth of the year
Observer-Dispatch
Posted Feb 22, 2009 @ 11:50 AM
Last update Feb 22, 2009 @ 12:48 PM
WEBB —
Two fatal snowmobile accidents were reported within two hours of each other Saturday in Lewis and Herkimer counties, law enforcement officials said.
The first accident was reported at about 4 p.m. Saturday in Martinsburg.
Jacob Leichtweis, 24, of Lowville was westbound on Centerville Road when he lost control of his snowmobile, flipped it, and was ejected, the Lewis County Sheriff's Office said.
Leichtweis was airlifted to University Hospital in Syracuse with serious head injuries, and died later that evening, deputies said.
An investigation into the cause of the accident is still underway, deputies said.
The second accident occurred at about 5:30 p.m. in the Town of Webb.
Michael James, 42, of Lyons was traveling north on the Stillwater Reservoir at an excessive rate of speed when he struck a deep drainage ditch, causing the snowmobile to overturn, the Town of Webb Police Department said.
James was pronounced dead at the scene by Herkimer County Coroner Danforth Rivet. An autopsy is scheduled for today, police said.
Sennett man dies in Lewis County snowmobile crash
by Robert A. Baker / The Post-Standard Saturday February 21, 2009, 4:57 PM
MONTAGUE, NY -- An Sennett man was killed this morning in a Lewis County snowmobile crash, state police said.
John P. Tracy, 19, of 6430 Townhall Road, was pronounced dead at Lewis County General Hospital by the county coroner, troopers said.
Tracy was with a group of four friends about 10:15 a.m. riding snowmobiles westbound on Flat Rock Road in the town of Montague, troopers said. Tracy was attempting to stop at the intersection of Pitcher Road when he lost control of his sled, troopers said. The snowmobile rolled over and Tracy was ejected, troopers said.
Crashes in Lewis, Herkimer counties are fourth, fifth of the year
Observer-Dispatch
Posted Feb 22, 2009 @ 11:50 AM
Last update Feb 22, 2009 @ 12:48 PM
WEBB —
Two fatal snowmobile accidents were reported within two hours of each other Saturday in Lewis and Herkimer counties, law enforcement officials said.
The first accident was reported at about 4 p.m. Saturday in Martinsburg.
Jacob Leichtweis, 24, of Lowville was westbound on Centerville Road when he lost control of his snowmobile, flipped it, and was ejected, the Lewis County Sheriff's Office said.
Leichtweis was airlifted to University Hospital in Syracuse with serious head injuries, and died later that evening, deputies said.
An investigation into the cause of the accident is still underway, deputies said.
The second accident occurred at about 5:30 p.m. in the Town of Webb.
Michael James, 42, of Lyons was traveling north on the Stillwater Reservoir at an excessive rate of speed when he struck a deep drainage ditch, causing the snowmobile to overturn, the Town of Webb Police Department said.
James was pronounced dead at the scene by Herkimer County Coroner Danforth Rivet. An autopsy is scheduled for today, police said.
Sennett man dies in Lewis County snowmobile crash
by Robert A. Baker / The Post-Standard Saturday February 21, 2009, 4:57 PM
MONTAGUE, NY -- An Sennett man was killed this morning in a Lewis County snowmobile crash, state police said.
John P. Tracy, 19, of 6430 Townhall Road, was pronounced dead at Lewis County General Hospital by the county coroner, troopers said.
Tracy was with a group of four friends about 10:15 a.m. riding snowmobiles westbound on Flat Rock Road in the town of Montague, troopers said. Tracy was attempting to stop at the intersection of Pitcher Road when he lost control of his sled, troopers said. The snowmobile rolled over and Tracy was ejected, troopers said.
QUOTE (CNYXLTrip @ Feb 22 2009, 08:26 PM)
I seem to recall a thread not too long ago ("Groomers on the wrong side?") where sledders were complaining, or asking why groomers would be "on the wrong side" of a trail... or when the trails are busy.... Seems our trail maintenance people just don't ever get a break! Grooming is all done by volunteers! These people deserve the upmost respect and admiration! They go out and work! Not for money, but for the love of the sport. Licensing and Laws cannot outlaw stupidity, irresponsibility, or carelessness. I have not heard anything yet on local news or radio (but if it is so, I'm sure we will hear a lot about it!)
Remember- STATE LAW REQUIRES snowmobilers to yield to the groomer, which, yes, especially on hills, may be going the "wrong way" bacause they have to in order to groom the most efficiently (many of the machines cannot pull a heavy groomer drag full of snow UP a hill, so they alternate sides and pull it downhill!)
I was out and did about 65 miles Saturday night, and was amazed at the number of groups of riders who, when approaching us out of narrow trails or turns did not even use hand signals!
Wake up, people.. speak up, people! If you see something, Say something! It's not just for terrorism and suspicious behavior in train stations or airports! If you have to, it is not hard to stop someone bevahing badly or erratic... Cross the trail, wave them down, or get their number, and report it!
Remember- STATE LAW REQUIRES snowmobilers to yield to the groomer, which, yes, especially on hills, may be going the "wrong way" bacause they have to in order to groom the most efficiently (many of the machines cannot pull a heavy groomer drag full of snow UP a hill, so they alternate sides and pull it downhill!)
I was out and did about 65 miles Saturday night, and was amazed at the number of groups of riders who, when approaching us out of narrow trails or turns did not even use hand signals!
Wake up, people.. speak up, people! If you see something, Say something! It's not just for terrorism and suspicious behavior in train stations or airports! If you have to, it is not hard to stop someone bevahing badly or erratic... Cross the trail, wave them down, or get their number, and report it!
very very very very well spoken!!!!
those who volunteer their time and efforts deserve nothing but our heartfelt thanks for doig what they do for OUR enjoyment! they deserve ZERO criticism, wether it be for "waa waa waa" not keeping the trails like a tabletop 24/7, or "waa waa waa" not being on the right side of the trail at all times. i cant beleive there are people out there who actually try and blame accidents and whatnot on the groomers!! that is flat out preposterous!!! the rider is responsible to keep his/her machine safely under control, which means that while 65mph may be safe on a given trail on one day, only 35mph might be safe the next! of course our hearts go out to the families of those tragically killed and we hate to hear about it, but lets face it, more often than not, imprudent speed or alcohol is involved when riders get killed. you can only ride like an arse for so long before someday it catches up to you. we need to smarten up and take control before our nanny-state government does it for us!! too, bad, we were doing so good this year up to this point. these were the first fatalities i have heard of in CNY this year.... unless i am mistaken?? take care people! ride right, ride sober!!!!!!
people need to slow down... i like to ride tues and wed. this was my first weekend of the year.. last year someone was on my side of the trail and hit my running board and never even stopped.. people should take classes.. and see video of people crashing.. i was behind a fatal accident and it slowed me down...
QUOTE (02800adrenaline @ Feb 23 2009, 05:12 PM)
very very very very well spoken!!!! those who volunteer their time and efforts deserve nothing but our heartfelt thanks for doig what they do for OUR enjoyment! they deserve ZERO criticism, wether it be for "waa waa waa" not keeping the trails like a tabletop 24/7, or "waa waa waa" not being on the right side of the trail at all times. i cant beleive there are people out there who actually try and blame accidents and whatnot on the groomers!! that is flat out preposterous!!! the rider is responsible to keep his/her machine safely under control, which means that while 65mph may be safe on a given trail on one day, only 35mph might be safe the next! of course our hearts go out to the families of those tragically killed and we hate to hear about it, but lets face it, more often than not, imprudent speed or alcohol is involved when riders get killed. you can only ride like an arse for so long before someday it catches up to you. we need to smarten up and take control before our nanny-state government does it for us!! too, bad, we were doing so good this year up to this point. these were the first fatalities i have heard of in CNY this year.... unless i am mistaken?? take care people! ride right, ride sober!!!!!!
those who volunteer their time and efforts deserve nothing but our heartfelt thanks for doig what they do for OUR enjoyment! they deserve ZERO criticism, wether it be for "waa waa waa" not keeping the trails like a tabletop 24/7, or "waa waa waa" not being on the right side of the trail at all times. i cant beleive there are people out there who actually try and blame accidents and whatnot on the groomers!! that is flat out preposterous!!! the rider is responsible to keep his/her machine safely under control, which means that while 65mph may be safe on a given trail on one day, only 35mph might be safe the next! of course our hearts go out to the families of those tragically killed and we hate to hear about it, but lets face it, more often than not, imprudent speed or alcohol is involved when riders get killed. you can only ride like an arse for so long before someday it catches up to you. we need to smarten up and take control before our nanny-state government does it for us!! too, bad, we were doing so good this year up to this point. these were the first fatalities i have heard of in CNY this year.... unless i am mistaken?? take care people! ride right, ride sober!!!!!!guys hold on the point i was making was are there any records kept that connect ungroomed trails and deaths .. i`m not blaming the groomers ..but smooth trails all year nothing .. and bammm a couple of deaths and others injured when the groomers did not groom ..try taking emotion out of the picture this could be something ..and it wasnt snowing when i got to the hill friday nite ..and this is not crying this is trying to find a solution to these deaths ..and by the way the women was going around a fallen branch when see fell off ..and then was hit by a following sled ..and it`s terrible to accuse people of exceessive speed or booze ..when no one knows for sure ..i still say maybe we have something here ..i say groom fridays no matter what ..or if impossible early saturday ..
3 deaths in less then 8 hrs.. SLOW DOWN!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The first accident was reported at about 4 p.m. Saturday in Martinsburg.
Jacob Leichtweis, 24, of Lowville was westbound on Centerville Road when he lost control of his snowmobile, flipped it, and was ejected, the Lewis County Sheriff's Office said.
Leichtweis was airlifted to University Hospital in Syracuse with serious head injuries, and died later that evening, deputies said.
An investigation into the cause of the accident is still underway, deputies said.
The second accident occurred at about 5:30 p.m. in the Town of Webb.
Michael James, 42, of Lyons was traveling north on the Stillwater Reservoir at an excessive rate of speed when he struck a deep drainage ditch, causing the snowmobile to overturn, the Town of Webb Police Department said.
James was pronounced dead at the scene by Herkimer County Coroner Danforth Rivet. An autopsy is scheduled for today, police said.
The 3rd Death........
Sennett man dies in Lewis County snowmobile crash
by Robert A. Baker / The Post-Standard Saturday February 21, 2009, 4:57 PM
MONTAGUE, NY -- An Sennett man was killed this morning in a Lewis County snowmobile crash, state police said.
John P. Tracy, 19, of 6430 Townhall Road, was pronounced dead at Lewis County General Hospital by the county coroner, troopers said.
Tracy was with a group of four friends about 10:15 a.m. riding snowmobiles westbound on Flat Rock Road in the town of Montague, troopers said. Tracy was attempting to stop at the intersection of Pitcher Road when he lost control of his sled, troopers said. The snowmobile rolled over and Tracy was ejected, troopers said
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The first accident was reported at about 4 p.m. Saturday in Martinsburg.
Jacob Leichtweis, 24, of Lowville was westbound on Centerville Road when he lost control of his snowmobile, flipped it, and was ejected, the Lewis County Sheriff's Office said.
Leichtweis was airlifted to University Hospital in Syracuse with serious head injuries, and died later that evening, deputies said.
An investigation into the cause of the accident is still underway, deputies said.
The second accident occurred at about 5:30 p.m. in the Town of Webb.
Michael James, 42, of Lyons was traveling north on the Stillwater Reservoir at an excessive rate of speed when he struck a deep drainage ditch, causing the snowmobile to overturn, the Town of Webb Police Department said.
James was pronounced dead at the scene by Herkimer County Coroner Danforth Rivet. An autopsy is scheduled for today, police said.
The 3rd Death........
Sennett man dies in Lewis County snowmobile crash
by Robert A. Baker / The Post-Standard Saturday February 21, 2009, 4:57 PM
MONTAGUE, NY -- An Sennett man was killed this morning in a Lewis County snowmobile crash, state police said.
John P. Tracy, 19, of 6430 Townhall Road, was pronounced dead at Lewis County General Hospital by the county coroner, troopers said.
Tracy was with a group of four friends about 10:15 a.m. riding snowmobiles westbound on Flat Rock Road in the town of Montague, troopers said. Tracy was attempting to stop at the intersection of Pitcher Road when he lost control of his sled, troopers said. The snowmobile rolled over and Tracy was ejected, troopers said
QUOTE (dozerman @ Feb 23 2009, 05:26 PM)
guys hold on the point i was making was are there any records kept that connect ungroomed trails and deaths .. i`m not blaming the groomers ..but smooth trails all year nothing .. and bammm a couple of deaths and others injured when the groomers did not groom ..try taking emotion out of the picture this could be something ..and it wasnt snowing when i got to the hill friday nite ..and this is not crying this is trying to find a solution to these deaths ..and by the way the women was going around a fallen branch when see fell off ..and then was hit by a following sled ..and it`s terrible to accuse people of exceessive speed or booze ..when no one knows for sure ..i still say maybe we have something here ..i say groom fridays no matter what ..or if impossible early saturday ..
DOZERMAN, i dont think i was being too emotional. i understand your point about there being a possible link between rough trails and accidents. but the bottom line is, people need to be in control of their sled. only travel at a speed safe for the conditions and sight distance. and what i said was "more often than not" excessive speed and/or alcohol are contributing factors in crashes......especially fatal ones.i did not accuse those who lost thier lives of this, nor will i condemn them for it untill the investigations are complete... you are right, i dont know the details of every accident that occurs, but with my experience on the trails myself with drunks, sno-pro wanna-be's and the like, i sometimes wonder how we dont have MORE bad wrecks out there. im not trying to be arguementative here, but you can put an out of control moron on a table-top groomed trail and he can put in serious danger himself and others. it shouldnt matter the condtion of the trail, people need to excercise good judgement. not drive like idiots and go around saying the groomers need to groom more often and this kind of thing wont happen. its like wiping out in your pickup truck on a slippery road in the middle of one of our classic NYS lake effect storms and blaming the plows for not keeping the road clear enough... see what im saying?? but let me repeat, i mean no dis-respect in any way those killed or thier families. we are just talking about issues that need to be looked at to try and prevent these kinds of things from happening in the future. i was hoping for a fatality free season here in cny.
i guess you could also say that smoother trails make people want to go even faster. bottom line, ride to the conditions and be looking ahead of you! and don't fly around corners. look for JUNCTION AHEAD signs or STOP AHEAD signs and people won't be blowing through intersections and crashing. it comes from people not knowing the trails and driving way too fast. i'm not sure how many of these accidents had alcohol involved, maybe none, maybe all were speed or a mix. we have to wait and see.
i like it rough cause it slows people down.. in my opinion.. but bottom line is slow down... you cant ride over your head..
My final 2 cents- On the Highways, there is an enforcement credo, and laws that refer to "reasonably safe and prudent" for the conditions and ability of the drivers and byways.....
"Nuff Said!"
"Be Smart, be prepared, and alert, not smashed!"
Perhaps it shoould be a new State motto?
"Nuff Said!"
"Be Smart, be prepared, and alert, not smashed!"
Perhaps it shoould be a new State motto?
QUOTE (02800adrenaline @ Feb 23 2009, 06:45 PM)
DOZERMAN, i dont think i was being too emotional. i understand your point about there being a possible link between rough trails and accidents. but the bottom line is, people need to be in control of their sled. only travel at a speed safe for the conditions and sight distance. and what i said was "more often than not" excessive speed and/or alcohol are contributing factors in crashes......especially fatal ones.i did not accuse those who lost thier lives of this, nor will i condemn them for it untill the investigations are complete... you are right, i dont know the details of every accident that occurs, but with my experience on the trails myself with drunks, sno-pro wanna-be's and the like, i sometimes wonder how we dont have MORE bad wrecks out there. im not trying to be arguementative here, but you can put an out of control moron on a table-top groomed trail and he can put in serious danger himself and others. it shouldnt matter the condtion of the trail, people need to excercise good judgement. not drive like idiots and go around saying the groomers need to groom more often and this kind of thing wont happen. its like wiping out in your pickup truck on a slippery road in the middle of one of our classic NYS lake effect storms and blaming the plows for not keeping the road clear enough... see what im saying?? but let me repeat, i mean no dis-respect in any way those killed or thier families. we are just talking about issues that need to be looked at to try and prevent these kinds of things from happening in the future. i was hoping for a fatality free season here in cny.
point taken and well said ..no arguements on any of your points ..but what can be done ? any ideas to stop the senseless deaths..
QUOTE (dozerman @ Feb 24 2009, 05:28 PM)
point taken and well said ..no arguements on any of your points ..but what can be done ? any ideas to stop the senseless deaths..
i hear ya DOZER, all we can do is try to instill in new riders a sense of responsibility and that there is very real risk in reckless driving habits. we need also as others hev put it, to speak up when we encounter reckless behavior. ultimately it is up to the individual to decide how to drive their sled down the trail. and with that said, all the education, law enforcement, trial grooming and anything else we can thow at this problem will never make it go away completely. we are all human and sometimes make bad decisions. thats why we should look out for each other and take the key to that sled form that drunk, and i mean bartenders as well. dont get me wrong, i love speed myself, but i keep my high speed runs on the lakes and very large lots that i know dont have unexpected obstacles. what i dont do is push an "on the edge" pace on an unfamiliar trail or when sight distance is reduced by darkness or terrain. i guess its mainly up to us more experienced riders to try and teach newcomers and even some vets who cant settle down the right way to have a great day on the trail and make it home safe at the end of the ride. its impossible to eliminate all accidents due to human nature and the nature of the sport, but i think we all can make a difference amongst ourselves because most people will react more positively to correction from thier peers than they will from John Law. if we all do our part together i think we can keep this sort of thing to a minimum. happy trials and lets not get anyone else killed the rest of this season!!
my buddy just came back today, he said a 17 year old left the flatrock and came up over a blind rise where there is a stop sign, blew right thru and into the trees, he was with his family and liquor isnt a factor according to the family. this confirmes one of them.
he also said a man was on stillwater resivior at night and came up a rise and became aireborn and hit the other side of the valley, died on impact. they let too much water out of the resivior and that makes it really dangerous at night. they have let almost 7 feet of water out in the past month.
there was another death but i dont remember the details.
he also said a man was on stillwater resivior at night and came up a rise and became aireborn and hit the other side of the valley, died on impact. they let too much water out of the resivior and that makes it really dangerous at night. they have let almost 7 feet of water out in the past month.
there was another death but i dont remember the details.
QUOTE (clint @ Feb 24 2009, 08:56 PM)
my buddy just came back today, he said a 17 year old left the flatrock and came up over a blind rise where there is a stop sign, blew right thru and into the trees, he was with his family and liquor isnt a factor according to the family. this confirmes one of them.
he also said a man was on stillwater resivior at night and came up a rise and became aireborn and hit the other side of the valley, died on impact. they let too much water out of the resivior and that makes it really dangerous at night. they have let almost 7 feet of water out in the past month.
there was another death but i dont remember the details.
he also said a man was on stillwater resivior at night and came up a rise and became aireborn and hit the other side of the valley, died on impact. they let too much water out of the resivior and that makes it really dangerous at night. they have let almost 7 feet of water out in the past month.
there was another death but i dont remember the details.
im sorry but if you ask me,if the info you posted is accurate, both are cases of imprudent speed for conditions. it may sound harsh, but it is what it is
QUOTE (clint @ Feb 24 2009, 08:56 PM)
my buddy just came back today, he said a 17 year old left the flatrock and came up over a blind rise where there is a stop sign, blew right thru and into the trees, he was with his family and liquor isnt a factor according to the family. this confirmes one of them.
he also said a man was on stillwater resivior at night and came up a rise and became aireborn and hit the other side of the valley, died on impact. they let too much water out of the resivior and that makes it really dangerous at night. they have let almost 7 feet of water out in the past month.
there was another death but i dont remember the details.
he also said a man was on stillwater resivior at night and came up a rise and became aireborn and hit the other side of the valley, died on impact. they let too much water out of the resivior and that makes it really dangerous at night. they have let almost 7 feet of water out in the past month.
there was another death but i dont remember the details.
the youngest was 19, all three reports are posted on either this site of some of the trail condition websites.
the guy in west turin didn't die. just got hurt, broken bones.
someone else did hit a tree i believe or lost control and were ejected. all three deaths involved a high rate of speed.
I was there last week. The groomers did a great job until the 50 mph winds and snow came. There really wasn't much they could doo starting Thursday morning. I left Friday morning instead of riding because of the drifts covering 1/2 of the trails, not being able to tell how deep moguls were, and people on my side of the trail due to conditions. I consider myself a pretty good rider, but it just wasn't worth the risk of what "the other guy" was doing.
A lot of misinformation here. First the 19 yr old who died at int of Olin Rd. and Pitcher Rd. was trying to stop for stop sign there and blew right across rd and then hit a tree. He wasn't drunk but no doubt was going too fast. That was first death at about 10:15 Am Sat.
The woman who got run over was from the week before and her husband accidentally ran over her. That was on Number Nine Rd. and I know this because the Sheriff had the trail blocked so the helicopter could land and take her to hospital. She had a compound fracture of lower leg but will be OK thank God.
The man on Stillwater hit a drainage ditch and was dead at scene. Of all of them the one I feel is most prevented is Stillwater. There are far too many people who go on that reservoir thinking it is flat and smooth for miles but IT NEVER IS. When they drain the water down it leaves big and small ice heaves, some you can see and some you can't until it is too late. The rule of thumb for ANY lake or reservoir is go slow the first time across and see for yourself what is truly out there. And slow means 20-30 mph so if there is a huge hole or ditch you can see it and stop in well enough time to avoid getting hurt or killed. Going 100 mph across Stillwater and then seeing a huge drainage ditch is a recipe for disaster every time!!! Every year there is a fatality on Stillwater and it is always the same. Too fast of a speed for conditions....
The woman who got run over was from the week before and her husband accidentally ran over her. That was on Number Nine Rd. and I know this because the Sheriff had the trail blocked so the helicopter could land and take her to hospital. She had a compound fracture of lower leg but will be OK thank God.
The man on Stillwater hit a drainage ditch and was dead at scene. Of all of them the one I feel is most prevented is Stillwater. There are far too many people who go on that reservoir thinking it is flat and smooth for miles but IT NEVER IS. When they drain the water down it leaves big and small ice heaves, some you can see and some you can't until it is too late. The rule of thumb for ANY lake or reservoir is go slow the first time across and see for yourself what is truly out there. And slow means 20-30 mph so if there is a huge hole or ditch you can see it and stop in well enough time to avoid getting hurt or killed. Going 100 mph across Stillwater and then seeing a huge drainage ditch is a recipe for disaster every time!!! Every year there is a fatality on Stillwater and it is always the same. Too fast of a speed for conditions....
by me they let wayyyy too much water out of stillwater way too quick. they dropped the level 7 feet in a month.
How do you dig a ditch on a body of water?
i'm guessing he was near the edge of the beaver river side and didn't know he was near shore? or he hit an ice shelf/crack from draining the water. i am not sure if this happened in the middle of the res. or the shoreline. my guess is near land and hew as going too fast, plus it was probably snowing because it happened when there were white out type lake effect that weekend.
report says drainage ditch, not sure exactly what it would look like though. without going there to see.
report says drainage ditch, not sure exactly what it would look like though. without going there to see.
I'm sure if you want to place blame on those that operate the reservoir, you will be losing a trail for next season. So beware. Who wants to be responsible for others actions that you can't control? That is the problem with people these days, its always someone else that is at fault.
not sure about others, but i in way was placing any blame on the people who run the reservoir. people need to know where they are riding before they just go WOT across ice or any trail/field etc.
im not placing blame on anyone for letting that much water out. that is the lowest i have seen it in many years, my dad who has been riding the area for almost 30 years has never seen it like that and out buddy who lives on the resivior has seen it lower but never seen it change that quick.
they way it happened was you could ride one weekend and they shore line was totally flat, the next weekend where you were able to do 80 the weekend before turned into giant rolling ridges and stumps sticking up thru everywheres.
and i think they mean by a drainage ditch a valley.
bad drawing but it will work
pretty much like if you came up short on a landing ramp and ate it face first
they way it happened was you could ride one weekend and they shore line was totally flat, the next weekend where you were able to do 80 the weekend before turned into giant rolling ridges and stumps sticking up thru everywheres.
and i think they mean by a drainage ditch a valley.
bad drawing but it will work
pretty much like if you came up short on a landing ramp and ate it face first
seen a accident on the trail before/near the salmon river resivour in redfield,,guy was awake but not looking good,rolled the sled somehow,,and bunch of people were there and waiting for ambilence,,so we passed thru and went on res/lake? before leaving and played/raced a little,,and it took quite awhile before we seen ambilance go by,,then the direction the ambl went after picking him up,,we seen a helicopter going that way,when we were loading up,,,it was a strait section of trail and not too bumpy//i hope he is okay,,,
we went up there yesterday. If I had a dollar for every idiot that went flying by me 40 mph faster than they should have been going, I'd be a wealthy man.
Probably the fastest and easiest way to eliminate accidents on tug would be to stop grooming all together. That would slow people in a hurry. I wouldn't be suprised if > 95% of all accidents up there were due to excessive speed.
Probably the fastest and easiest way to eliminate accidents on tug would be to stop grooming all together. That would slow people in a hurry. I wouldn't be suprised if > 95% of all accidents up there were due to excessive speed.
QUOTE (evilstevie @ Mar 6 2009, 12:27 PM)
we went up there yesterday. If I had a dollar for every idiot that went flying by me 40 mph faster than they should have been going, I'd be a wealthy man.
Probably the fastest and easiest way to eliminate accidents on tug would be to stop grooming all together. That would slow people in a hurry. I wouldn't be suprised if > 95% of all accidents up there were due to excessive speed.
Probably the fastest and easiest way to eliminate accidents on tug would be to stop grooming all together. That would slow people in a hurry. I wouldn't be suprised if > 95% of all accidents up there were due to excessive speed.
there is a non groomed trail//camp trail 2-cedar pines to camp trail 4,,,14mi of the worst bumps i have ever seen and i like mogals
,,,,,1 of our group packed up and left after that 14mi,,,
QUOTE (DOO_TINT @ Mar 6 2009, 05:15 PM)
there is a non groomed trail//camp trail 2-cedar pines to camp trail 4,,,14mi of the worst bumps i have ever seen and i like mogals ,,,,,1 of our group packed up and left after that 14mi,,,
,,,,,1 of our group packed up and left after that 14mi,,,That's been well documented this season. Joe is a real "edit for bad language" this season with grooming. I've yet to hear anyone on here defend his decision to not groom it. I hope you buddy doesn't think that's a reflection of the entire hill, it's been awesome all season!
QUOTE (jdschmoo22 @ Mar 6 2009, 05:39 PM)
That's been well documented this season. Joe is a real "edit for bad language" this season with grooming. I've yet to hear anyone on here defend his decision to not groom it. I hope you buddy doesn't think that's a reflection of the entire hill, it's been awesome all season!
it was my 3rd trip to the hill and for some reason we always ended up going thru camp road 2 and it has never been groomed,but this time was really bad,,at least before i could make jumps/rythim out of the whoops,,
as for my buddy/the first 6mi,we stopped to try to adjust his suspension 3 times on smooth trails/mexican trail shocks(junk),,then hit camp road 2,,
QUOTE (evilstevie @ Mar 6 2009, 01:27 PM)
we went up there yesterday. If I had a dollar for every idiot that went flying by me 40 mph faster than they should have been going, I'd be a wealthy man.
Probably the fastest and easiest way to eliminate accidents on tug would be to stop grooming all together. That would slow people in a hurry. I wouldn't be suprised if > 95% of all accidents up there were due to excessive speed.
Probably the fastest and easiest way to eliminate accidents on tug would be to stop grooming all together. That would slow people in a hurry. I wouldn't be suprised if > 95% of all accidents up there were due to excessive speed.
I like the "stop grooming" idea stevie...it would solve a lot of problems.
QUOTE (tughillterror @ Mar 19 2009, 11:03 PM)
I like the "stop grooming" idea stevie...it would solve a lot of problems.
if no club groomed at all, you'd have no one going up there period. businesses would suffer, the state would lose money. it wouldn't be good for anyone.
i bet more people die in car accidents in the state of ny in one day, than die up at tug hill the entire season. i hate to see it happen but people gotta be responsible for themselves. if you think of how many sleds ride on those trails on a given week, the amount of real serious accidents it's that high.
QUOTE (DanNJ @ Mar 20 2009, 05:55 AM)
if no club groomed at all, you'd have no one going up there period. businesses would suffer, the state would lose money. it wouldn't be good for anyone.
i bet more people die in car accidents in the state of ny in one day, than die up at tug hill the entire season. i hate to see it happen but people gotta be responsible for themselves. if you think of how many sleds ride on those trails on a given week, the amount of real serious accidents it's that high.
i bet more people die in car accidents in the state of ny in one day, than die up at tug hill the entire season. i hate to see it happen but people gotta be responsible for themselves. if you think of how many sleds ride on those trails on a given week, the amount of real serious accidents it's that high.
It has been extremely unfortunate that these accidents happened.. But considering the amount of traffic that our area gets, this is a low number. I have friends that work in the Lewis County hospital who have told me that the number of people they see come into the ER in the winter time for skiing accidents greatly outnumbers those of snowmobile accidents.. you never hear about those because it isnt a high profile event to report. Newspapers like to make the snowmobiling community look bad every chance they get! Yes, most of the accidents on the hill are speeding or alcohol. I have rode here my entire life, riding slow for the enjoyment and also riding like a bat out of hell at times. But I know my environment and the trails and I know where my limits are. People need to take accountability for their own actions and not blame it on others. The groomers did an excellent job this year!! Kudos to those of you who put in countless hours to make my ride more enjoyable.... With the amount of snow we got and the continued snowfall that fell they were working all the time. But people who dont live here dont see that..
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