Email sent out today from Snoman ...

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From: Duncan Stokes [mailto:dstokes@snoman.mb.ca]
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 10:08 AM
To: info@snoman.mb.ca
Subject: GREAT NEWS REGARDING INTEGRATION

Good day to all the club representatives, regional association representatives and Board of Directors. Please feel free to circulate to your clubs members who do receive this message.

Snoman Inc. has some great news!!!

Snoman Inc. now has a letter signed by the Minister of Conservation, the Honourable Stan Struthers and by the Minister responsible for Manitoba Public Insurance, the Honourable Dave Chomiak committing to bringing in a system integrating the Snopasses with the snowmobile registrations for the 2009-2010 snowmobiling season. While it will not be a legislative change for consideration in the fall session of the legislature, it does very clearly state the Province of Manitoba’s intention to implement this system for next year. A sincere thank you to Minister Struthers and his department who have been supportive of Integration right from the beginning and have put a great deal of time and effort to ensure Integration for the 2009-2010 season. As well, a thank-you to our Deputy Premier, the Honourable Rosann Wowchuk who was very supportive of Integration and especially this week for taking time from her busy schedule to meet with Bill Musey our Integration Chairman on the weekend and to meet with the two ministers during the week to ensure we would have the Integration letter by October 31, 2008.

As I am sure most of you are aware, the Eastern Regional Snowmobile Association (ERSA) passed a motion at its May meeting asking for legislation to be on the agenda for this Fall’s legislative session, or ERSA clubs would withhold grooming services for the 2008-2009 season. This motion was also supported by the Interlake Regional Snowmobile Association (IRSA) and by two of the clubs in the Northern Region in recent weeks. At a board meeting held on October 20th, with a less than 10% chance of Integration being on this fall's agenda, it was agreed upon with the Snoman Board that a letter from the Government signed by two ministers ensuring Integration for 2008-2009 would be all that is necessary for all regions to carry on with grooming, Snopasses, etc. for the upcoming 2008-2009 season.

The staff and the integration committee put in a lot of time, effort and hard work to achieve Integration for the 2009-2010 season. It is our hope that ERSA, IRSA and other clubs who have supported a withholding of services will rescind its motion in order for Snoman Inc. to move forward as a whole…volunteers, clubs, regional associations, Board and staff…to promote safety on the trails and build on a great trail system.

Our office, specifically Ms. Lora Beddall will notify all clubs when Snopasses and maps are ready for distribution. And while we all realize the timelines are tighter this year than any year before, I think we can take great comfort in knowing that this will be the last year Snopasses will need to be distributed.

On behalf of the Snoman Inc. Board of Directors, thank you all for your patience.

Duncan M. Stokes
Snoman Inc.-Executive Director
(204) 940-7533 (work)
(204) 940-7531 (fax)
dstokes@snoman.mb.ca

www.snoman.mb.ca
Snoman Inc. (Snowmobilers of Manitoba)
2121 Henderson Highway
Winnipeg, MB R2G 1P8

So if they are integrating it in with the registration, does this make the pass compulsary with your registration?

Where exactly do these passes allow you to ride?
None of my riding buddys have one

yup ... net effect is that it makes the pass compulsary with your registration?

The pass entitles you to ride on any of the official snoman affiliated club trails in the province.

Do you know if we will finally get stickers instead of drilling our tunnels to add a plate?

My tunnel already has holes for the plate... no point in turning back now lol./

I dont know if im going to like it being compulsary.... i dont think ive ever been on the "official trails".... if i did then it was unintentional...

this will help give the the Manitoba clubs that have designated sno-fund trails a much needed boost ! and help solve the problem of riding without a pass ! a pass will still be reqiured this season,implementation will not happen until the 09/10 season as i understand.

Most other provinces have this in place already.
I bought a pass last season and never even rode on trails. Sort of a waste, but I suppose the money went to something good for sledders.

I think they maybe groomed the trails 1 time last year.... for the most part the trails were all dirt from what i heard....
So i would says its definately a waste.

If we get some decent snow this year, and the trails get groomed then i have no problem paying for it (even if i dont use it).
Its when im paying for nothing that bothers me.

can't control Mother Nature ... they don't suspend groomer loan payments, insurance, building maintaince, etc. just because it didn't snow in a given year.

Yea ... some costs should go down ... but I can see where other costs (like repairing the drag from hitting more exposed rocks and stumps) could go up.

Ideally ... integration should provide a larger, more stable, flow of revenue so that more grooming can get done - even in lean years.

yeah i know a couple of knobgobbler guys that say they never ride a trail, yet when i ride with them they are on it.. they dont buy sno-passes, hopefully one of these years they can actually be charged/fined for NOT having a proper pass to be on the trail..

i buy a sno-pass every year (good or bad) cause i know the money goes to paying bills for those groomers and signage, plus there is alot of guys that volunteer THEIR time so i can ride a trail (when i want to)

as for plates and whatnot... plates are issued by MPI and i cant see them changing and going to a sticker for snowmobiles (just for looks cause the new yellow plates dont match your yammi or cat)

MPI will collect the trail fees with this new system, right?

No. The plan is for the clubs to be designated as MPI dealers so that they can sell the insurace with the pass, keep the cash from the pass, and remit the rest to MPI. If it's on the internet ... it must be true

Seriously ... as I understand, there are lot's of details to work out yet but, yes, the plan is to pay for the plate and the pass in one transaction through MPI. I haven't talked to him ... but I'm thinking my insurance guy is going to be happy as he sells the passes and he always said it was a PITA for him - but he still did it to support the sport.

Sorry, I should have been more clear MPI brokers will collect the fee. Will that full trail fee that is collected go to Snoman or will they keep some admin. fee's?

That is one of the details that needs to be worked out. ie: exactly what the fee will be, how much the broker will keep for selling it, how much (if any) MPI will keep for collecting it, etc. all those details need to be worked out before the next (09/ 10) riding season.

Oh i get it now, by raising the price for admin fees from MPI and forcing everybody to buy it, MPI just found another way to rape our wallets

This whole thing makes way more sense now....

Keep us informed as you get more details guys

not that I'm a huge fan of MPI ... but I don't think we can blame them for leading the charge on this. This initiative came from the snowmobile clubs looking for a better way to ensure their long term viability. It's not like MPI went out looking for a way to dig deeper into sledders pockets. who knows ... MPI may even be getting dragged into this kicking and screaming ...

I buy 2 every year , My wifes sled had a sticker and she only rode 1 time. I whent twice on the Sno-pass trails and thats it. The rest of the time I was at the "farm" rideing last year. Half of my friends don't buy them but still ride on the trails , so I think its great news !! Its not a lot of cash for what you get , and its a long term trail system that "WE" are investing in !! Not just 1 season. If every sled has a pass......The future trails could be linked/expanded and improved !!
Do your part and push your friends to do theres !! We all win in the end........?

Those who ride on private land, who still want insurance, which requires registration wont benefit.

I pay over 1400 a year for insurance on my car after the 25% discount from merits... you would think that would be enough considering the blue book value on the car is barely 1500 and a fender bender will get the thing written off.

I will probably buy a sno pass this year regardless, but its the principle.... they shouldnt be allowed to force it upon people as thats crossing the line in my opinion.

/End Rant

Before I completely agree with BAdams on this I need to know how much my sled plate is going to increase. If it goes up the $100 that a sno pass is I won't be buying a license plate for my sled. I only ride about 2 or 3 times a year and can't afford an extra $100. That covers my gas for 1 of those rides.

Well the snopass is $125 if i remember correctly.
And rumor has it that MPI will be putting additional costs on top of that to incorperate admin fees and such since MPI would now be handling this.

Remember that this is all speculation as of right now, but if they are adding the cost of the snopass, then expect your plate registration to jump at least $125.....

Im with you ihatesummer.... if thats the case i dont think i would buy even the plate... its just not worth it for some of us.

hmmmm

i think this is an awesome idea...
now instead of having 500 people pay for grooming we have "literally everyone" buying a plate paying.. what a awesome idea! it will likely bring the "actual" cost of a sno-pass down, since now you have "everyone" paying into the pool instead of a few..

i'd like to see the "plate" fee including the sno-pass come in under or around the 100$ mark..

anyone selling sno-passes now doesnt get paid, brokers that sell autopac get paid by MPI anyways, they'll likely just adjust how the commission works and/or figure it into the plate fee..
then no more worries about dec 1 coming and not getting in on the cheap sno-passes.. 95$ this year i think it was.. went up to 125$ after dec 1.

ride on!!

mr. heritage is right that it will be better, plus our club has estimated that the snopass cost could drop to as low as $40. who rides a sled and can't afford $40- $100 anyways. one to two tanks a fuel a year big deal.

http://www.snoman.mb.ca/integration.pdf

Thanks for keeping us up to date.

Dito on the thanks !
Good info / link

Snowman has only 1 trail in the South Junction area and from here it goes East to Moose Lake, MB (via Sprague), and West to Woodridge, MB where it becomes part of the larger Snowman Trail system.

I have a cousin out here who has 5 sleds that he registers. 2 of them are used on Snowman trails and he buys trail passes for these. The other 3 are an Alpine that he uses to pull a homemade groomer and he personally grooms trails locally that are use by anyone and everyone (including COs) at his own cost (with a few of use giving him a few bucks to help with his costs). The Alpine never comes close to a Snowman trail and therefore he never buys a trail pass for it. He also has 2 other sleds for his grandchildren whom only ride on trails that he grooms with his Alpine (not Snowman trails) and therefore never buys a trails pass for. It is not fair to someone like him to have to incur an additional cost of a trail pass for 3 machines because of integration when those 3 sleds will never see a Snowman Trail. There should be an opt out option for situations like this.

I thank you for taking the time to read and understand my view on this.

The pass is $95 and there are thousands of riders out there not paying.
This should bring passes down much below $40 + insurance.
Now if we get gouged and pay $50 on top of insurance this is a scam, cash grab.
In this case as a long time pass buyer I will be going without insurance or pass just like I am sure many out there will.This could be a great thing but I am not paying the same $ or more.

first off the cost of running the trail system is huge ! groomer repairs ,fuel signage etc.the clubs are tapped out and volunter burnout is a major problem.More funding will help greatly to help cover growing costs of operations. before trying to come up with your own "how much it should cost" get involved with a club ,go to a few meetings and find out the real story of trail development costs! even if the cost of a pass stayed the same $95.00 its a great deal ,compared to some other recreational activities..........

Boy Oh Boy !
Hit the nail on the head with that one !

"before trying to come up with your own "how much it should cost" get involved with a club ,"
"go to a few meetings and find out the real story of trail development costs!"

The world is led by those that show up
not those that just sit back & whine

Bobh

HOW DOES THE SNO-PASS WORK WHEN THE LOCAL CLUB IS GROOMING TRAILS THAT HAVE BEEN IN USE FOR YEARS BEFORE GROOMERS EVEN EXISTED. IT WOULD SEEM THAT IF THEY WANT TO GROOM TRAILS AND CHARGE FOR THEIR USAGE THEY SHOULD CLEAR AND ESTABLISH THEIR OWN. WHO IS SNO-MAN TO SAY THEY ARE GOING TOCHARGE FOR USE OF A TRAIL THAT THEY DECIDED THEY WANT. I UNDERSTAND THAT MANY RIDERS USE THESE TRAILS BUT IF I HAVE TO CROSS IT TO GET TO THE GOOD STUFF ON A TRAIL THAT I HAVE BEEN USING FOR 25 YEARS I DON'T WANT TO BE HASSLED BY THE PEOPLE THAT USE THEM.WHAT IS STOPPING THE LOCAL JOE BLOW FROM DRAGGING AROUND A 2X6 AND SAYING WE OWE HIM FOR RIDING HIS TRAIL.

.JUST READ ADAMS REPLY .I AGREE.WE SHOULD NOT HAVE TO PAY FOR SOMETHING THAT A GROUP OF INDIVIDUALS DECIDED TO TAKE ON. THIS ALSO INCLUDES THE EXECUTIVE OF SNO-MAN THAT ARE TRYING TO MAKE A LIVING OFF OF THIS. MAYBE MR.STOKES SHOULD POST HIS AND HIS STAFFS SALARIES WHEN THEY ARE TRYING TO JUSTIFY THE NEED FOR A CASH GRAB.LETS ALSO BE CAREFUL FELLAS. AS SOON AS MPIC GETS INVOLVED WITH THIS THE NEXT STEP WILL BE A NO INSURANCE CLAUSE IF YOU HAVE AN ACCIDENT OFF THE GROOMED TRAIL.

I understood it was the CLUB that initiated the process of designating a trail as a snoman trail. They request Snoman to provide $$ from the snopass system to help fund the maintaince and grooming of the trail. If the local club doesn't want funds, then the trail would not be designated as a snoman trail, and a pass would not be required. If the club designates the trail as a snoman trail, and gets funding, then a pass is required.

If you have an issue with a long standing bush trail now being designated as a snoman trail ... take it up with your club executive. Snoman is just doing what the clubs are directing them to do.