I have a 2000 Mach Z, long story short, tried to set up sled for Jaws pipes and can't get it to work right at all, the primary won't pull the belt within a inch of the top. sled is fast out of the hole then just levels off at 70mph ( on speedo ). Right now setup is;

Jaws pipes
K&N's ( tried gutted airbox no difference )
430 jets
V-Force 3's

286 ramps
pink pink spring
16.5 grams
clickers 3

50-47 helix
beige spring
C-5 ( 19.5 lbs. )

I tried to get my CDI rev limiter turned up but was told I have some odd CDI that can't be done so I haven't got that worked out yet, when the season is done Jaws is going to help me out. But in the mean time I would like to ride it.

I had a cudney cluch kit in it before with stock 295 ramps and it was the same thing. I know that my power band is 9000-9200 rpm, and I'm loosing there but shouldn't I be able to get full range on my clutches with 8900 rpm? I have a 44 straight helix as recomended by Jaws but don't think that is the magic solution.

I'm pretty much sick of changing stuff and had enough of this sled, I'm willing to try a couple more things then it's all back to stock for me, and maybe trading it in, there is nobody near me that tunes performance Ski Doos and the closest dealer is 2 hrs. away. I have a pile of parts for this thing and would rather get it dialed in instead of unloading it.

So I ask for any suggestions on things to try we have snow for the first time in 3 years and I'd like to ride it. Also if I go back to stock, what do you guys think of my current clutching any good for a start or go to stock there also? I ride mostly soft snow 8-10 inches, and ditches, with the odd trail, I'm not looking to go 120 mph, just want good excelleration and if I get a a hard pack straight want it to pull hard to even 100 mph would be good.

i have a similer problem with my 809 rev
jaws pipes
k& ns
v-force
shim kit
rer red spring
250/420 p spring
286 ramps
pins ??? changed it so much i can't rember
26/43 gearing

put in a cdi (that was susposed to have limiter removed) only getting 8920 rpms
hitting about 95mph
leaves almost a inch of marker on my primary

maybe i should gear down ?????

what do u run for gears

Might be a stupid answer but I had a similiar issue and it was a bad plug.. It would fire and rocket out of the hole , tons of bottom end and level off at around 60mph as one plug cut out.. changed plug and was fine ever since. Sometimes you have to take a step back and look at the obvious?? Or not... just a sugestion.

71 drag; on your prewind, is that 19.5 lbs of prewind by straight pull or average? Either way it's probably a little light for a healthy triple... used to run about 22#'s average on mine... My old F3 did that for a whole winter and all it was was a bad NEW Bomber belt!I changed every part known to man,couldn't get it till the belt blew...

Checking the plug caps with an ohm meter wouldn't hurt either,they do some weird stuff when they break down...

BTW.. the 295's usually make more speed than 286's...

You should give the secondary a little more tension,replace the belt and add pin weight till the rpm starts to come down...also check bushings while it's apart....aslo take primary apart,remove spring and slide the outer half back on the fixed,make sure it will slide right closed...sometimes the inner bushing goes bad or there is rust on the fixed not allowing full shift ...

I have a complete 97 ignition for sale if either of you want more rpm...

Should ask....are the rpm's high all the time or climb with the speedo till you hit the rev limiter?

Had 3 different belts on it.
Tried different plugs. (did notice that the 1 on the clutch side and middle were black, third was nice, 2 bad wires or coils?? as new plugs didn't work)
Stock gears
That is a average pull, 24 lbs. to start it moving, and 15 lbs. when it starts to come back.
Revs up quick, shifts out and then stays steady, right now I only have it reving at 8600 keeping it away from the rev limiter.
I was just thinking earlier that I never did check the primary with the spring out and was my plan for tonight.

What average pull do you guys suggest on the secondary?

I've also been thinking that it isn't clutch related but something else causing my problem, just not sure what, hate to change a bunch of good parts trying to figure it out.

Try for 21-22lbs average...

check carbs,clean raves....compression good? jetting?

Get an ohm meter,they have resistor caps,bad cap won't burn right and the bad signal tells the cdi to protect itself... should be 5,000 ohms resistance,if they are not,get some...

Wonder if C-6 will put me at 21-22 if I'm at 19.5 now. ( stupid question, would using B or A be less or more then C ?? my shop manuel doesn't realy say )

Carbs looked fine when I checked them?, jetting seems fine.

Going to try and round up a compression tester, going to check rave valves.

Will non resistor caps work?

Thanks, I'll check some of these things out

What do your spark plugs look like at wide open throttle, Had the same problem as you once, the engine was getting too much fuel and not putting out enough hp to bring the belt to the top of the clutches, and if you held it at 1/2-3/4 throttle does it pull harder?

Doesn't seem to be much faster at full then 3/4, just revs higher and doesn't go anywhere at full. Didn't get time today to do many plug reads at full throttle after I put the new plugs in. I'm becoming more and more convinced I have a problem that's not clutch related, going to check the primary without the spring for full travel just to make sure.

for one thing you won't be able to get rpm's without the cdi box programed .. been there done that.. you can get it to rev to 9000 but you will just blow belts.. what is the tention on that primary spring?.. what you may find is back to the 295's and stock spring and stock pins will give you the rpm.. one other thing is the squish.. Jaws pipes dont like a tight squish.. that too will stop you from reving up.. it starts to detinate.. that may be what's going on might be too tight or just your cdi is screwing you. need to program yours or get a 97 and older. I had my 2000 rer done at valcourt.. it took 5 days return

BEIGE SPRING


HOLE LBS

C3 2
A3 4
B3 6
C2 7
A2 9
B2 11
C1 12
A1 14
B1 16
C6 16.5
A6 18.5
B6 20.5
C5 21
A5 23
B5 25
C4 26
A4 28
B4 30

Here you go......I set up my buddies stock 2000 Mach Z at 25 pounds with new stock skidoo springs and buttons and boy does she fly..........

I did send my box to Ski-Doo race dept. Tom Lawrence head of the dept. at the time looked at it and said it was some odd part# that couldn't be done. I going to try and get a whole new box from Ski-doo that is done already with a matching cord.

Think a pink pink spring is 250-350. I know I need to address a few things for it to run optimum, was kinda hoping to get it at least running decent so I can get some use out of it without putting the stock pipes back on for a few weeks of sleding. My plans are to address the box issue, shim the base and shave the heads as per Jaws recomendation this summer so it is ready for next winter.

Maybe the only way to tell if it's the pipes or not is to change them out till I get the rest taken care of?

Thanks, is this with the stock 53-44 helix?

A pink-pink....MIGHT be a 310-465!!

Realy?? I'm just going off what I was told, I had a spring from my Cudney clutch kit in before that made no difference, but it too had a high engagement. I'm going to try my stock spring and see.

I'm thinking more and more and leaning towards going back to stock, or close to anyway. I have Snow Stuff tripple cans and different clutch parts plus I'll leave the V-Force reeds in, but the pipes will be gone and the stock airbox back on also. This way if I still have problems and can't figure it out doing the simple things, I can just take it to a dealer and say fix it!!!!!! Surely the cans and reeds can't be so far off stock that they would be stumped, about all I was planning to do was run all stock specs with the jetting up by a couple. IF (oh GOD please) IF it runs decent there then I can experiment with a bit of clutching for my riding style.

Two new questions for you guys then would be;

Would 2 up on the stock jetting be enough for a set of Snow Stuff triple cans?
What's the going price for a set of hardly used Jaws pipes??????????

i know on a majority of mod sleds i've seen, they are using kickass filters instead of k&n's. kickass filters are designed for the winter and take in more air than the k&n, they do because they are not worried about dirt in the summer, where the k&n is designed for all seasons, a little off topic, but might help get some more hp.

Don't look far. I dynotested jaws pipe. HP max is at 8900-9000 RPM. Stock tach gage have show close to 150-200 rpm more than real RPM. You run under your peak.

also, You have pipes who run 9000rpm, but you don't have the cylinder porting enough higher to run that rpm. You need a 0.060 to 0.080'' spacer under cylinder.

I'm not sure of what I said, I'M very sure.

I know for sure also your right, and had planned to address all those things, but now thinking it's not worth the trouble anymore, I have a drag truck that takes alot of wrenching and that's enough for me, I just want to ride this thing for once. I've had it reving to 8900 but no difference, my tach seems not to bad for accuracy, it hits the rev limiter just before 9000 on my tach and it's 8950.

I'm beginning to realize that the raising of the exhaust port and upping the rev limiter is essential to the thing or it runs like crap. I'm no sled gurue at all and figured it would just run half &#@ till that stuff was done, I never thought it would run like #$^@ with my current setup. So just figured I had other problems going on also, I've decided to go back to stock and see if it still runs like crap, then I'll know for sure whether or not it's my setup or other problems.

Thanks for the input guys!!

you right it will run half fast I was able to run my 809 with jaws pipes without programing my cdi to hit 118mph then it blew a belt as i came through the radar...hehe.. but it did it.. but i had the shim kit and about .70 squish.

i would say don't bother with the triple can thing... the only can that i seen works is the B&B eleminator. the jetting for the jaws pipes is 410's on all three and the stock tubes from an 97 machz.. (04).

Ya I had the 410 jetting, Greg at Jaws said to up it 2 for K&N's. I already have the cans, so was just a thought of putting them back on just for the sound ( ya I know but hey I'm a guy what can I say ), but likely will end up full stock to sort out if it's just improper setup for the pipes or other problems.

So does anybody know for sure if not having it shimmed will cause this much trouble, or do I have other problems with my sled??

the old pink -pink is 310-460 and if thats what you got its too stiff and not near enough pin wt to close the clutch , its a short stiff spring?
you should be using around 230-350 or 230-380 , 17-18g , 286 , 50-47 cam on c5 worked great for us when using jaws pipes

must have the cdi programmed to rev past 9000 , it helps to have the ports raised but its not a must to get it to run correctly , just faster ?

yeah Im pretty sure this is what's going on.. i could rev mine up to 9000-9200 but it would just blow belts.. i never heard or felt the rev lmtr but the tell me the the timing gets retarded and you loose belt squeeze.. but i could rev it up just by clutching. so what your saying is that the sled will not rev past 8600 right?... if so its the squish... just too tight for jaws. i would run the 410's with no airbox or filters.. so id stay at 410's with the filters.. I now have the k&n's on and I'm still jetted at 420's with porting

Yes it's a short siff spring, thanks I'll give my stock spring a try tonight after work. Going to try that, clean raves again and check plug boots.

I can get it to rev up but only with realy light pin weight. What altitude are you at for that jetting? And is it safe a -25c with that, I do have 420's and 410's I could go to. Also what position do you have the needles in?

Thanks again for the help guys.

if you use the stock 200-290 spring then yes use the 16g pins stock , should be close.

I'll give it one last try and see what happens.

Thanks.

When my 925 was a 809, I ran white green 250-380 spring with 286 ramp. But the original 295 is faster, but less good for drag. cam was 53-47. If you run the pink-pink, For sure it to heavy.

I used the pink pink because a guy told me it was a 250-350 spring. I'll be changing it out, what engagement was the white green giving you with the 286 ramps?

5000 rpm. SO I have a little welding spot at the beginning of the ramp. you can expect 4800.

talked to chris bondi told me i needed a 200/290 i didn't have one but a stock black is close ,13 gram pins,with clickers on 5 hits 8950 rpms in about 50 feet,good bottom end no top end 155 km , clickers on 3 not so good on bottom end but clutches shift out still goes to 8950 can hit 175-180 with ease,i think i will try #2 .i think u need to go as close to the limiter as possible without hitting hit for best performance.

Sorry I believe this is a general rule of thumb from the skidoo race manual with strait 50" helix ...to be sure and acurate use a fish scale and clutch bracket from skidoo

I know when set up propper the sled would rock with those pipes, but I've decided to go back to stock, only thing I'll be running will be V-Force reeds and triple cans. I have all the clutch tools and a few different parts so I'll just mess with my clutching to get it set up as best I can for me. If it still runs like crap I'll be back again for help.

I'm going to start from stock to make sure there isn't something else wrong if it runs good there my next step is changing it to a 144 x 1.5 track, tunnel extension, and ETS system. I mainly ride soft stubble feilds and ditches with the odd hard packed, I don't care if it only goes 100mph on hard packed ( I say just 100mph cause it is a Mach and that should be EASY ) I just want it there now.

With that being said, with those conditions and me weighing 240lbs. what would be a good clutching setup to try? I do like a higher engagment of 4500 to 5000. And what about stock gearing with the longer track?

Ya that's what I use, it's just nice to have a start point so your not pulling the clutch apart all day.

Color Code Opening-Closing Length in mm


Red-Red 70-170 96.3
Red-Orange 70-200 91.2
Red-Yellow 70-230 87.9
Red-Green 70-260 85.9
Red-Blue 70-290 84.1
Red-Purple 70-320 83.1
YellowRed 100-170 121.1
Yellow-Orange 100-200 105.7
Yellow-Yellow 100-230 100.3
Yellow-Green 100-260 94.0
Yellow-Blue 100-290 90.7
Yellow-Purple 100-320 88.4
Blue-Orange 130-200 135.5
Blue-Yellow 130-230 115.1
Blue-Green 130-260 105.7
Blue-Blue 130-290 99.8
Blue-Purple 130-320 96.6
Blue-Pink 130-350 93.5
Purple-Yellow 160-230 149.4
Purple-Green 160-270 126.8
Purple-Blue 160-290 114.6
Purple-Purple 160-320 105.7
Purple-Pink 160-350 101.8
Green-Blue 200-290 147.4
Green-Purple 200-320 126.7
Green-Pink 200-350 118
Green-White 200-380 110.7
Pink-Purple 230-320 154.7
Pink-Pink 230-350 137.2
Pink-White 230-380 124.5


OLD Spring Colors

white 150-240
yellow 160-270
black 185-410
green 230-390
red 230-410
blue 240-430
white/green 250-380
orange 250-420
pink 250-460
white/silver 260-420
green/green 280-420
red/red 280-460
blue/blue 280-510
old pink/pink 310-460
orange-orange/gold-gold 310-510

the book says my sled has a violet/green.would violet green be purple/green?cant find it anywhere.